FBI Enlists Israeli Firm Cellebrite to Unlock Shooter's iPhone

[antonis]

Sound like Apple won, after all. If FBI unlocks this specific iphone (or any other iphone they already have in their possession) without Apple creating a backdoor-enabled iOS, it means that our devices remain as secure as they can be as long as they remain in our possession.

 

[0004838]

Hmm, certainly poor wording on my account with the jailbreaking comment - it was broadly meant to highlight that there are always going to be some bugs in software that can be used to gain access or 'hack' a device; be that with or without full access to the device. Although deep down, I think you knew exactly what I meant, and you're being deliberately obtuse.

Nonetheless, I don't see how that impacts the rest of the argument. You yourself picking up on a fallacy to disregard the rest of my argument without answering the other points doesn't validate your comment in the slightest.

So what's your point?

First, I'm not in the mood for some cat fight on the webz. Let's stay peaceful. I didn't mean to offer an insult.

The scenarios in the post to which I responded can be summarised as follows: if Apple creates the backdoor, it becomes an official aspect of their software and therefore unblockable; if a third-party works out how to do engineer a backdoor, Apple can still block the exploit with a patch.

You made the third-party hack of an inaccessible iPhone sound more plausible and more likely by comparing it to an incomparable hack, that of jailbreaking, which ostensibly requires a fully-accessible iPhone. By making it sound more plausible with this invalid comparison, you generated unmerited FUD.

That's all.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

The American goverment like to think they are the 'police force' of the world.
Then they should do the right think and put pressure of Israel to release Mordechai to do and go where he chooses.

With regard to McAfee. Belize didn't have a chance to question him properly as he did a 'runner' before they had a chance.
My point is if the US want to question someone they get their way.
I wonder what would happen if Belize asked to question McAfee. You know the answer to that as does everyone else.

With regard to Mordechai Vananu being a criminal if you call the way he was captured and tried 'just' then obviously you dont know the full history of the case.

No. There are extradition agreements between countries. That is how the U.S. gets to question people living overseas who have been indicted in U.S. courts. There's nothing sinister about it. If there is no agreement then no extradition. For example France will not extradite anyone to the U.S. who qualifies for the death penalty. No amount of U.S. might is going to get that person to the U.S.


OTOH it's none of the U.S.'s business what Israel does with Vananu. He is a criminal and traitor. His case is parallel with Jonathan Pollards. Israel had no business lobbying for his release.

Bottom line: there is no parallel between McAfee and Vananu.

BTW yes, I do know how he was capture. He was a spy, he was captured like a spy. All is fair in love and war.

 

[Designer Dale]

If they do manage to unlock it, it really wouldn't surprise me if they find absolutely nothing - and then to avoid embarrassment they plant information regarding the Brussels bombing on the phone just to cover their asses, shift the public's opinion in order to set a future precedent and also make Apple look like asses, all in one fell swoop.

This is something that disturbs me. Since it's a "National Security" issue (to them) they aren't obliged to make the content, if any, of the phone public if they are able to pull this off. There should be some way to force the government to tell the public what's on that phone no matter what. Truth, please.

Dale

 

[iShater]

An Israeli company? color me surprised!

*not*

 

[Thunderhawks]

Gonna seem awfully silly when they find nothing but dick picks and Angry Birds

Game Center cannot be removed!

This whole thing will be bad for Apple if it is found you can unlock an iPhone anyways, once again. While I applaud Apple for not caving in to the FBI and offering them a hack tool or backdoor, the fact that an independent party found a way into the phone anyways is pretty bad for Apple.

Apple is too rich a company and has too many people and resources for them to continuously release phones and iOS with security exploits. Apple makes their own hardware, they make their own software, they distribute their own products; why can't this company make their hardware the most secure devices on the planet? Q/A and Security should be Apple's top priorities, not removing headphone jacks and making their phones thinner. If Apple wants to be the champion of people's rights, security and privacy then invest all them billions in obscene profit margins back into the quality of their products, not building grandiose UFO looking headquarters.

While I am sure that momentous effort is going to unlocking this one particular phone and it's not an exploit for the casual hacker, just go on YouTube and see ALL the videos over the years of how people have bypassed the lock screen on the iPhone simply by accessing the camera or panel or something else and poking around a little.

Apple can't be a poser and fight for the people while their products continue to be hackable anyways.

Anyways, are you for real?

You throw out unfounded generalizations and assumptions without much knowledge.

Just on case in point: How do you know what percentage Apple's "obscene" profit margins are?
And, who is the determining person on what margin is "obscene"

With spring happening, come into the daylight. You will feel better (One can hope)
Dark winter days have an impact on moods.

 

[heimo]

https://xkcd.com/538/

 

[Bigsk8r]

Finding Backdoors to Iphones

 

[deany]

No. There are extradition agreements between countries. That is how the U.S. gets to question people living overseas who have been indicted in U.S. courts. There's nothing sinister about it. If there is no agreement then no extradition. For example France will not extradite anyone to the U.S. who qualifies for the death penalty. No amount of U.S. might is going to get that person to the U.S.


OTOH it's none of the U.S.'s business what Israel does with Vananu. He is a criminal and traitor. His case is parallel with Jonathan Pollards. Israel had no business lobbying for his release.

Bottom line: there is no parallel between McAfee and Vananu.

BTW yes, I do know how he was capture. He was a spy, he was captured like a spy. All is fair in love and war.

I'm sorry Mordechai Vanunu is not a spy he is a 'whistle blower' and should be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Instead of unlocking iphones with Israeli companies the US should be unlocking Mordechai's shackles and putting pressure to allow him to leave Israel.
Israel were cruel how they treated Mordechai for those 18 years just like the solitary confinement of over 100,000 US prisoners that endure 23 hours caged like animals.
Disgusting the Americans should be ashamed of themselves its 2016 not medieval times.

 

[blacktape242]

Let's just flush away US taxpayer's money, we have to avoid the court at any cost!

thats the gov. best work...flushing tax payor money......

 

[Krevnik]

Then by all means, please explain to me how Apple would close the backdoor.

This isn't a backdoor, it is an attack. It is an exploit of the design. And it is already closed in newer hardware. This particular attack (replay attack) is doable because the 5c doesn't guard against the NAND being reverted back to a previous state. In iPhones with a Secure Enclave, there is an anti-replay counter that is kept only on the Enclave's SoC specifically to combat this particular attack, since reverting the NAND doesn't buy you any new attempts, and you can't just flash the Enclave with any old data you want, or even read what is there. And worse, you need the Enclave's unique key to calculate the filesystem encryption keys. The CPU itself doesn't have the ability to do it anymore (its unique key is different).

Now, if you find a vulnerability in the Enclave to let you take it over, then you can bypass it. But that is actually more difficult than this particular attack. The Enclave is separate from the CPU. It only communicates over a small protocol at the kernel level. And while the firmware is updatable, it again must be signed. So your best bet there is to get Apple's signing key again.

 

[Ayemerica]

The fact that the FBI is willing to use these extreme measures shows how little luck they will actually have.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I'm sorry Mordechai Vanunu is not a spy he is a 'whistle blower' and should be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

"Whistle blower" to you, spy and traitor to me. My definition of whistle blowers is one who exposes corruption or wrong doing. Vanunu weakened his country's national security exposing secret's he agreed to share only with authorized colleagues. He betrayed his country. Whatever term you want to attach to him he chose to put himself in the predicament he is in. I'll also say if he had exposed some of the countries he helped here he'd would have been publicly executed. Israel is not an unpleasant country to be "trapped" in.

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

Cellibrite does good work. They've been in the forensics game a long time. Though there are other options they could have gone with which are far quicker and cheaper. Still, going with a non-US company helps them from the standpoint of legal hurdles.

 

[ProjectManager101]

Just $15,000???? what a cheap hooker! I have russians friends who make that in a week getting laid in Miami.

For a contract like that I would charge no less than $500,000 and those are pennies for the FBI.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Just $15,000???? what a cheap hooker! I have russians friends who make that in a week getting laid in Miami.

For a contract like that I would charge no less than $500,000 and those are pennies for the FBI.

If you know the US government, $15,000 is just for the exploratory committee; than they will begin with the steering committee for $150,000. Then the normative committee for another $200,000. and so on.

 

[ronjon10]

This is the way it should work in the U.S. Companies shouldn't be compelled to help the government if it means potentially damaging themselves and the government should be free to find 3rd parties that are willing to help them. This is a free market solution.

 

[avanpelt]

$15,278.02 -- did they just make that figure up? Especially the two cents -- come on!

 

[jclardy]

lol, this company is only doing it for $15k? The FBI isn't going to get squat from this.

 

[haydn!]

This doesn't surprise me. I think we'd all be naive to think the iPhone is 100% safe from hacking, and I was very surprised the FBI failed to gain access already. Part of me thinks, they always knew they could do it without Apple's help but took this opportunity to fuel a political agenda, and use terrorism as a way to turn the public against the technology companies and data encryption.

 

[opeter]

Good to see who the US security apparatus is in bed with.

As you mention the Arabs ...
Don't forget the ISIS/DAESH, Al Nusra, Talibans etc.

 

[RebelScum]

This news must have Trump making angry little fists in his tiny gloves.

 

[Bigsk8r]

This doesn't surprise me. I think we'd all be naive to think the iPhone is 100% safe from hacking, and I was very surprised the FBI failed to gain access already. Part of me thinks, they always knew they could do it without Apple's help but took this opportunity to fuel a political agenda, and use terrorism as a way to turn the public against the technology companies and data encryption.

Exactly.

It is a shame how politically centered things tend to wind up being.

 

[BlendedFrog]

Well...now that Apple nows it was Cellebrite, expect them to be bought by Apple within days. Also, I would expect Apple to treat this as just another bug and patch this in the next point release.

 

[GenesisST]

Gonna seem awfully silly when they find nothing but dick picks and Angry Birds

Not Angry Birds, because there are pigs...