FCP X Demo: 'Nowhere Near' Final Version, More on Final Cut Studio Apps Coming

milo

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Within months Logic Pro 8 came out and they simplified the GUI to be like GarageBand (and oh how all the "Pros" did moan...but only for awhile) and cut the price from $999 to $499. I jumped on it and never looked back.
Logic is the perfect comparison. Audio guys had the exact same reaction when Logic 8 and 9 first appeared - it seemed to look more like GB so they assumed it was a toy with features stripped out. In fact, it removed nothing and added quite a few features valuable to pros (and in later versions fixed a LOT of bugs). What's the old cliché about judging a book by its cover?
 

SimonMW

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Great, That's the guy who "redesigned" iMovie and screwed it up.
He's also the guy who designed FCP in the first place!

I edit professionally and I am stoked by what I have seen so far. Anything that makes my life easier is a good thing. I'm glad it is cheaper, although nothing has been said about the other apps such as STP and Motion, or even Color. As others have said, just because amateurs can afford the software, it doesn't mean that they can use it well.
 

dbattle

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FCP X upgrade

So here's my question - if they're eliminating the "suite" package and eliminating upgrade pricing aren't they killing the current FCP editors who use all of the other suite apps? Currently FCP 7 charges $299 for the upgrade. So if they're eliminating the upgrade price and I want to upgrade 3 of my systems I have to pay $299 for FCPX and then an additional $700? for the other apps for each system? I've just gone from an upgrade cost of $900 (3 systems) to $3,000!

Please tell me it ain't so!

In my opinion the quote was very vague I think it left open the possibility that the price is $299 for the whole suite, maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Here's the quote - "We've had upgrade pricing, we've had Final Cut Express, we've had Final Cut Studio - so we decided that we wanted to really do away with all of that, we wanted to greatly simplify the pricing structure, make it very very easy for you decide if you want to get a copy of Final Cut Pro. So we've decided to make it available for the amazing price of $299."

I think the mention of all those would imply that all of those are now the $299 price? Thoughts?
 

crpchristian

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So here's my question - if they're eliminating the "suite" package and eliminating upgrade pricing aren't they killing the current FCP editors who use all of the other suite apps? Currently FCP 7 charges $299 for the upgrade. So if they're eliminating the upgrade price and I want to upgrade 3 of my systems I have to pay $299 for FCPX and then an additional $700? for the other apps for each system? I've just gone from an upgrade cost of $900 (3 systems) to $3,000!

Please tell me it ain't so!

In my opinion the quote was very vague I think it left open the possibility that the price is $299 for the whole suite, maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Here's the quote - "We've had upgrade pricing, we've had Final Cut Express, we've had Final Cut Studio - so we decided that we wanted to really do away with all of that, we wanted to greatly simplify the pricing structure, make it very very easy for you decide if you want to get a copy of Final Cut Pro. So we've decided to make it available for the amazing price of $299."

I think the mention of all those would imply that all of those are now the $299 price? Thoughts?
While I certainly feel this bad scenario is possible i highly doubt it. Apple has been adding to the value of FCP pretty consistently. Final Cut Pro 2 cost $999 back in the day, skip ahead to today and FCP along with Motion, Color, Soundtrack pro, DVD studio pro... costs $999. While their hardware seems to not really drop in price, Apple seems to be on a trend of dropping software prices, while often increasing what the software can do.

That being said I hope they continue to add to FCP (making it more of a complete package like Smoke) and still keep the Suite of products (it can be nice to have a dedicated working environment sometimes). I'd love to see an updated, 64bit, GrandCentralDispatch etc version of Motion, same for Soundtrack.

Plus I haven't heard anyone mention (not that I've looked that hard) how nice it is that Apple gave us a sneak peek, pre release. That is typically not a favor Apple lends to it's public or users.
 

DocNo

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Feb 20, 2011
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The "industry pros" are facing the plight of impending impotence.
Meh -- there was similar consternation with the original Mac, LaserWriter and PageMaker from the professional printers. And as then, it still is at the end of the day just a tool. The real talent is in how the tool is wielded.

Those that have at true talent have little to fear. Those that are more marginal... well, time marches on.
 

LethalWolfe

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Meh -- there was similar consternation with the original Mac, LaserWriter and PageMaker from the professional printers. And as then, it still is at the end of the day just a tool. The real talent is in how the tool is wielded.
I'll take it a step farther. How many people have access to a pen and paper? How many people write professionally for a living?

The really disrupting thing to 'established' professionals is that they have tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars tied up in their gear and when there are sudden drops in the price of gear that means their investment takes a dump as well. In the grand scheme of things it's inevitable but that doesn't mean anyone likes it when it happens.


Lethal
 

DocNo

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In other words, what we saw tonight was nowhere near the final form of the application.

This statement has me a bit puzzled. FCP is supposed to be out in around 2 months. Are they going to rush the rest into FCP in this amount of time, or get the basics in there, then drag onto multiple updates?
I think it's simpler than that - Apple wasn't ready to tip their full hand, just whet everyone's appetite.

Hence us seeing an older, less complete build while the final version is still being polished.

And I have no doubt their will be some quick post-release updates - that's the way of life for complicated applications and it has been for quite a while now. The applications are complex, the underlying operating systems are complex, and how they interact with other applications and utilities installed on the system are also incredibly complex. If you have a low tolerance for stability, wait a least a year before switching to it for production work. That's not a symptom of Apple being sloppy, it's a matter of pragmatic risk management.

For those who are expressing outrage that perfect and bug-free applications aren't being delivered - you couldn't afford them. While it can be done, it can't be done for consumer (or even "Pro") level pricing.
 

mBox

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If you think about it, it's not all too surprising that some of these "professionals" are getting so worked up and sulky over this release. The notion that "pro editing" can belong to just about anyone, rather than an exclusive circle of elites, poses an existential crisis. Apple's re-thinking of editing is also a re-thinking of what it means to be "professional". The announcement sheds light on a future in which their "advanced", learned techniques are no longer advantageous. The "industry pros" are facing the plight of impending impotence. It's not something anyone would really openly admit, but I think they're feeling a bit naked, stripped of their status.

Who can blame them for being pissy?
being one of them, I can honestly say were just a bunch of jaded ***** ;)
Yea this is old news to me. I was there when FCP first came out and the Premiere/Media100 folks were in a tiff about Apple getting to close to the mid-range cause then Avid was around 100k for a turn-key system.
its old news, everyone likes to complain.
I was at the SuperMeet still fresh from hearing Avid and Kevin Smith lovefest.
I did not see that demo coming ;)
I was floored and cant wait to see what the future holds for all interfaces.
Please folks get off the iMovie already.
This new GUI reminds me of a lot of older/newer higher-end apps such as Resolve, Composer (SGI sad answer to After Effects), etc...
Its not iMovie unless you treat it like iMovie :p
 

mBox

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...I edit professionally and I am stoked by what I have seen so far. Anything that makes my life easier is a good thing... As others have said, just because amateurs can afford the software, it doesn't mean that they can use it well.
So true to both your statements.
The new starting point reminds me of Alias (now Autodesk) Maya's Marking Menus, where a simple stroke using a keyboard would let you speed up editing in 3D. Now with thew new Timeline/Sequence, options like Compound Clips and Magnetic Timeline, I can imagine where Apple will apply this too.
Ive seen high-end companies go from 5 digit costs to 3 in a span of 5 years due to the competition. Still doesnt mean the software is easy to use it just helps you be more creative and Apples always been about that!
Funny that Apple came up with that price of 299 cause the day before, Avid came out with a 995 crossgrade from Final Cut.
You get to keep your FC license too.
Avid Media Composer is 2500 USD.
Did Avid know what Apple was going to price FCP at?

Thats my conspiracy theory ;)
 

MattInOz

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I think it's simpler than that - Apple wasn't ready to tip their full hand, just whet everyone's appetite.

Hence us seeing an older, less complete build while the final version is still being polished.


For those who are expressing outrage that perfect and bug-free applications aren't being delivered - you couldn't afford them. While it can be done, it can't be done for consumer (or even "Pro") level pricing.
I don't about FCP but a lot of other PRO software has moved to yearly updates with maintenance subscription pricing to give users confidence.

I know in CAD/BIM Land we tend to buy this years release for last years features. Not that there aren't new features that will be really useful it takes us about a year to workout how to use them effectively, build that in to office system that can be used consistently and start training people only 3-6 months is the application developers ironing out the bugs.

To me Pro-software is no different to another member of staff, with all the same complications and relationship building energy before increased productivity comes a round.
 

4nNtt

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I hope they brighten the interface a bit. I find it too dark. Also i hope some of the buttons become drop down buttons. It looks way more cluttered then FCP7.

all the improvements i have seen are major approvements. Even though this is an early demo. bravo, apple.

edit: or give us the advanced and regular version UI ;) all buttons that have shortcuts i dont see need for in the UI for an everyday user like me.
All of Apple's professional apps have the dark neutral color scheme so your eyes don't get thrown off because they are accustomed to other colors on the screen. Adobe also moved to this color scheme recently.
 

dbattle

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If you think about it, it's not all too surprising that some of these "professionals" are getting so worked up and sulky over this release. The notion that "pro editing" can belong to just about anyone, rather than an exclusive circle of elites, poses an existential crisis. Apple's re-thinking of editing is also a re-thinking of what it means to be "professional". The announcement sheds light on a future in which their "advanced", learned techniques are no longer advantageous. The "industry pros" are facing the plight of impending impotence. It's not something anyone would really openly admit, but I think they're feeling a bit naked, stripped of their status.

Who can blame them for being pissy?
Being a professional myself I remember having those fears a few years ago. In fact we lost a large client because one of the employees thought that her high school son could do the same level of work that we did. If that were true I would say shame on us, in reality the client came back to us a few months later when the kid couldn't actually produce the same level of edit quality and creativity that we do.

The price drop doesn't bother me one bit. I think if anything it does open up the door for a teenager to start learning on high end software, then by the time they've finished college and have a sense of who they are as an editor they'll be a welcome, proficient addition, to someones company. I think it serves everyone in the end.
 

Digital Skunk

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Being a professional myself I remember having those fears a few years ago. In fact we lost a large client because one of the employees thought that her high school son could do the same level of work that we did. If that were true I would say shame on us, in reality the client came back to us a few months later when the kid couldn't actually produce the same level of edit quality and creativity that we do.
This reminds me of one of my early clients. A radio station that asked me to do a promotional video for a certain price. I told them that I couldn't do it. I didn't have the time, the skill, nor the resources to pull it off. I also told them that there weren't too many I knew in the production field that would do it for the lowball price that they were offering.

They saw my work and wanted to hire me for the job, so I just took a chance at accepted it.

It was my first foray into professional video editing . . . it ended in disaster. Thank goodness I had a contract at least. I say though because even as a well versed college student I still recommended the station to go find a professional to do the job. I had classes, projects of my own, a steady job and girlfriend to mind. I didn't even have a car to get around NOR a decent camera to shoot with.

There shouldn't be too many 16 year olds taking real work from real professionals. There aren't too many 25 years old amateur editors or recent college grads taking work from me now . . . and the work they do get I don't want.
 

mrwonkers

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If you think about it, it's not all too surprising that some of these "professionals" are getting so worked up and sulky over this release. The notion that "pro editing" can belong to just about anyone, rather than an exclusive circle of elites, poses an existential crisis. Apple's re-thinking of editing is also a re-thinking of what it means to be "professional". The announcement sheds light on a future in which their "advanced", learned techniques are no longer advantageous. The "industry pros" are facing the plight of impending impotence. It's not something anyone would really openly admit, but I think they're feeling a bit naked, stripped of their status.

Who can blame them for being pissy?
I couldn't agree with you more, oh the poor professionals :(

They know that their days are numbered and so they are turning into big sooky ****s...... Fellas just deal with it.......Adapt or DIE...
 

yoak

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Wow, we went a whole hour without this old one popping up again. I feel embarrassed for you.



I don't know, to me Final Cut Suite was always a steal. The 'revolution' started over 10 years ago. Unfortunately, broadcasters still require HDCAM/SR deliveries so rentals aren't necessarily a thing of the past yet. I can't wait for the day we can just deliver a quicktime file.
It´s nearer than you think, at least here. We were allowed to deliver 7*30min episodes as ProRes files on a hard drive to the main broadcaster here (NRK1 HD, the BBC equivalent) in Norway in January.
First they wanted HDCAM, but we argued that we would just lose a couple of generations this way. We had used quite a bit of Gopro and CAnon 5D footage and we didn´t want that to go through too many unnecessary convertions.
They agreed
 

SimonMW

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They know that their days are numbered and so they are turning into big sooky ****s...... Fellas just deal with it.......Adapt or DIE...
Urr no. Sony Vegas had had this sort of pricing for years and is used widely professionally because that was what it was designed for. Do you actually think that being a professional is being about owning a certain piece of software?
 

mBox

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Urr no. Sony Vegas had had this sort of pricing for years and is used widely professionally because that was what it was designed for. Do you actually think that being a professional is being about owning a certain piece of software?
So true, I know folks still running the original Media 100, GV Edius, MC Meridiens and even first run Premiere.
Folks you really only need one or two video layers to get a job done :)
From my line of work I rarely go higher than 2 since most of my work is done pre NLE (motion design and 3D).
 

mBox

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I'm still under NDA, so I can't tell you as much as I would like about what was NOT talked about at the SuperMeet, but I will quote one Apple rep that I spoke with after the event: "This is only the first look, wait until we can share the full announcement."

I heard what the execs were saying after the event. There is much more to come. And I can't wait!



P.S. Don't let the negative rumors get you too worried, yet. Those that know, can't say. Those that don't know, are just guessing and enjoy making you nervous. We will all know more soon.
Its human nature. you get all kinds no matter what business your in :)
 

chillywilly

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Being a professional myself I remember having those fears a few years ago. In fact we lost a large client because one of the employees thought that her high school son could do the same level of work that we did. If that were true I would say shame on us, in reality the client came back to us a few months later when the kid couldn't actually produce the same level of edit quality and creativity that we do.

The price drop doesn't bother me one bit. I think if anything it does open up the door for a teenager to start learning on high end software, then by the time they've finished college and have a sense of who they are as an editor they'll be a welcome, proficient addition, to someones company. I think it serves everyone in the end.
Great post and the kind of logic that this new FCPX will bring to those wanting to get into the video production industry. I'm almost 4 years into my video editing "career" and still forward people to the pros for projects that are too much for me and ones that I know my skill level limits on. I'm excited about this new version, hoping it will expand my skills even more.
 

davidgrimm

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Nov 29, 2006
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Are you aware you can change the timeline to look like imovie6 HD? My biggest gripe about iMovie 11 is no third party plugins. iMovie 6 can use them though. I'm hoping the next FCE (if there will be one) has the same power as FCP. Yeah, it will be dumbed down but I want a semi pro editor for home use.
No I wasn't aware of this. I have iMovie v 9. Perhaps I'll play with the newest version before making the jump to FC.

Yes, a semi-pro editor for my home is what I'm looking for too.
 

daceymathers

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Logic is the perfect comparison. Audio guys had the exact same reaction when Logic 8 and 9 first appeared - it seemed to look more like GB so they assumed it was a toy with features stripped out. In fact, it removed nothing and added quite a few features valuable to pros (and in later versions fixed a LOT of bugs). What's the old cliché about judging a book by its cover?

Logic Pro is a hybrid 32 / 64 bit digital audio workstation and MIDI sequencer software application for the Mac OS X platform.Logic 8 has new processing plug-in (Delay Designer), Apple included features such as Quick Swipe Comping, similar to Soundtrack Pro 2, and multi-take management.