Federal Lawsuit Filed Over Apple's Location Tracking in iOS [Updated]

[Cartaphilus]

Despite the fact that were I the judge I'd levy Rule 11 sanctions against these lawyers, I can't agree that it makes any difference that the file is only available with access to the user's computer which can be password protected. In a civil matter, like a divorce case in a jurisdiction where it matters, the court can compel the user to divulge the password, to not delete or modify the file, and to deliver the computer to an expert to extract subpoenaed information. I haven't kept up with all the Patriot Act era provisions, but it wouldn't be surprising if law enforcement could obtain a warrant effectively forcing similar disclosures despite the Fifth Amendment.

Even had Apple super-encrypted the file, users and providers (like Apple, ISPs, and Telcos) would nonetheless be vulnerable to legal compulsion to cooperate in providing information deemed by the courts to be material and relevant to some lawsuit or prosecution. Accordingly, it isn't entirely harmless if such information is recorded without the knowledge--actual or constructive--of the user. Even so, these plaintiffs are unlikely to plead that they are terrorists, serial bank robbers, or adulterers who were duped into recording their whereabouts, however imprecisely, and whose highly-developed sense of ethics prevents them from simply smashing the telltale devices instead of bringing a lawsuit.

 

[PhantomPumpkin]

You aren't being tracked by Apple, you aren't being tracked to the meter. You can opt out, just switch off location services.

And by the way even if you do switch off location services your location is still being tracked by the mobile phone companies everytime your phone makes a connection with one of their masts, which happens everytime you move cell. Oh and this happens with every phone, otherwise they wouldn't work.

Stop being a paranoid sheep and start reading the facts of this case not the media hype.

Dig deeper Watson. Turning off location services DOES NOT disable this feature. It is still logged, even with location services off. That's the whole issue the smart people have. There's no way to auto-truncate the file, and there's no way to turn it off.

 

[robbyx]

Normally I would argue that the customer doesn't have a right to a lot of things. But in this case - if you bought a device and it is tracking you (I'm not saying it is or it isn't) - the customer does have a right to know.

This (sort of) reminds me of how now your are legally allowed to get a free credit report once a year to determine whether or not it's correct. Companies used to make a fortune charging for something that people, inherently had the right to know.

Where does these RIGHTS you speak of come from? Frankly, I don't know if it's a right or not, but I hear the word "right" used a lot these days by people who have no idea what it means.

Much ado about nothing.

 

[mr.steevo]

Case in point: My GF has a few crazy stalkers who could find out from this data base where she actually spends most of her time. They are mentally challenged creeps who have no way to do this through hacking into ATT but they could steal her stuff at her public appearances. They actually showed up there.

Then she needs to speak with the police.

 

[robbyx]

Dig deeper Watson. Turning off location services DOES NOT disable this feature. It is still logged, even with location services off. That's the whole issue the smart people have. There's no way to auto-truncate the file, and there's no way to turn it off.

Why should Location Services stop your phone from logging cell tower information, the same information your cell company logs?

Now if it's in Airplane Mode, then I'd wonder...

I don't think the "smart people" are all that smart if that's their issue!

 

[roadbloc]

Wait.

1. Android stores the info as well.

2. Unlike Apple, Android sends it back to Google.

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Except secured

Do you really think a federal suit would waste time on something worthless? There is clearly something wrong for this to have happened. If Apple were doing exactly the same as Google, either Google would have had a lawsuit filed as well or neither of them would have been touched.

 

[Tommy Wasabi]

More things like this that people don't complain about...

Block box in your car tracks not only where you are but the speed in which you are traveling. These black boxes are used by the insurance company if you get in an accident.

The phone company tracks where you are - and it is stored and can be requested by any law enforcement agency and have the data within 10 minutes of the submission.

I wonder if people are going to sue the auto industry, the insurance industry, and the phone companies.

Oh wait, this is American, land of lawyers - give them until Friday to write their brief and file in a some courthouse located in the Eastern District of Texas.

 

[SkyStudios]

First things first, let Apple pay the fines becuase this is indeed a violation of our privacy, Google and facebook paid ober 300,000 dollars to Europe for it why should Apple not pay the fine?

Lets get to the real deal, Apple was already sued for violating privacy laws last year, they where not only storing location data but collecting users political views which required fallowing personal emails, chats, web history recorded regardless of you cleaning it afterwards with some paid apps.

Its a federal offense to not only tap someones line, stalk them with location recording but sell them a device, if people knew this they would never of purchased the device., let those poeple in Top companies who have FBI protecting them from Espionage SUE APPLE and Android companies too if they violate privacy laws becuase thats info you can topple a company with fast, especially competitors.

As for the naive kids who claim police can use this location data to find a rapists or perpetrator at large your dead wrong kids, here is a list of proceedings which have to be met to do this,

The cops can not at all even look into your phone, etc, unless your dumb enough to give them info, how ever a PI or detective can., cops and everyone else need warrants if they want to use this info legally, anything other then that is a personal decision and violation of someones rights, if cops had access to your phone who knows what issues we would have, they are not trained on legal matters, detectives, PIs, federal agents, Pis and detectives working under a lawyer who does, all going through the district attorneys office can, even journalists who are retired Feds, detectives, Pis or CIA agents can, they know the laws or their work is worthless in court.

Cops can however use police jammers, eves drop on your line through the district attorneys office via the phone company, they can even turn your phone into a video camera if it has one with out software or you knowing this, so can the feds, this all is also useless unless a warrant is issued, if cuaght they lose their license or get fined,

Maybe Apple will just pay the fine and walk away with money they made toppling other companies by spying on their employees. , but one thing is for sure, they HAVE TO CHANGE THIS GAME and also REMOVE KIDS APPS that prey on children to pay for more games with out them even knowing it.

 

[Full of Win]

Nike+iPod must be an even more serious privacy violation. After all, it knows how fast I'm going and my calories burned. And it sends the data to nikeplus.com!

Yeah, both iPhone/iPod and Nike+iPod store the information only on my device and sync it only to my other devices, sending it elsewhere only if I want. But if I can make money by suing about it then I'll ignore those inconvenient facts!

You are skating around the issue of user permission. If you use this app to track your location - its YOUR CHOICE. However, the issue here is that Apple is collecting the data without the option of user choice. Even turning off location services does not stop the collection and submittal to Apple of this information.

That is what is the heart of the matter - do we, as users, have the right to opt to to the collection and submittal of location data to Apple ? With your example, you do, as you can turn off the app at will. However, the same ability does not apply to what Apple is doing. BIG DIFFERENCE

 

[SkyStudios]

Block box in your car tracks not only where you are but the speed in which you are traveling. These black boxes are used by the insurance company if you get in an accident.

The phone company tracks where you are - and it is stored and can be requested by any law enforcement agency and have the data within 10 minutes of the submission.

I wonder if people are going to sue the auto industry, the insurance industry, and the phone companies.

Oh wait, this is American, land of lawyers - give them until Friday to write their brief and file in a some courthouse located in the Eastern District of Texas.

funny we are both from Chicago and i missed your post, should of went to the last page, you nailed it brotha but you missed something, we PURCHASED IPHONES AND IPADS and where not told we would be watched for political views, emails and chats other then locations last year in another apple lawsuit.

 

[PhantomPumpkin]

Why should Location Services stop your phone from logging cell tower information, the same information your cell company logs?

Now if it's in Airplane Mode, then I'd wonder...

I don't think the "smart people" are all that smart if that's their issue!

The smart complainers rather. I don't think people would have the same issue if Apple collected X amount of data, and deleted it after X time. The issue is that it's stored forever, so people panic.

If it kept it for the same length as Android, and continued to NOT be sent to Apple, I don't see how this is any worse than any other phone's logging that occurs.

Apple doesn't receive data(as far as we know), 'Droid does. Yet Apple is the bad guy simply because it's unencrypted and not truncated. If they did those two fixes, anyone with any notion about the topic would be able to see that it's not a big deal.

Then again, how concerned are you that someone will know what cell phone towers you were near, or which Wi-Fi hot spots were around you on whatever day?

 

[marksman]

Prove it.

The burden of proof is not on him or Apple and you can't prove a negative.

The burden of proof would be on those bringing the lawsuit or people like yourself to prove apple is doing something with this data.

 

[Laird Knox]

it looks like a different world from today,
but really it's less than 70 years ago that we had the NAZI regime here in germany. it's less than 25 years ago that we had an repressive surveillance society in east germany. if there is no apparent good in tracking personal data, one should object to it.

Score one for Godwin!

 

[PhantomPumpkin]

You are skating around the issue of user permission. If you use this app to track your location - its YOUR CHOICE. However, the issue here is that Apple is collecting the data without the option of user choice. Even turning off location services does not stop the collection and submittal to Apple of this information.

That is what is the hearty of the matter - do we, as users, have the right to opt to to the collection and submittal of location data to Apple ? With your example, you do, as you can turn off the app at will.

Please, link me any evidence this is submitted to Apple.

 

[mactree]

I'm sure they're re-writting their next big unveiling keynote as we speak, since this was probably part of some amazing new feature we would have all stood up and cheered for

 

[SkyStudios]

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Do you really think a federal suit would waste time on something worthless? There is clearly something wrong for this to have happened. If Apple were doing exactly the same as Google, either Google would have had a lawsuit filed as well or neither of them would have been touched.

if you google up more info you will find out last year Apple collected emails, chats and political views, for who is the question

 

[SkyStudios]

Please, link me any evidence this is submitted to Apple.

Apple only recently added the info into iTunes agreements, last year they where sued for collecting emails, chats and political views, this means they seriously can get access.

BTW a the devices unique ids can be simulated and one can plant a crime on another if the authorities actually depended on it.

 

[dr Dunkel]

Very expected. Like I said, this was going to hit the fan...

Now, we the customers are the only winners here, as Apple may be forced to reveal everything regarding its alleged monitoring of phones.

 

[Vegasman]

Why should Location Services stop your phone from logging cell tower information, the same information your cell company logs?

Now if it's in Airplane Mode, then I'd wonder...

I don't think the "smart people" are all that smart if that's their issue!

People don't tend to lose their "cell tower information" stored on their carrier's servers too often.

They do however lose their phone in bars (ask Apple), in airports and other places.

And then there is the issue of the iTunes backup....

Imagine for a second you were going through a nasty divorce, and the crazy spouse got the Mac Book Pro as part of some early asset devying up. And just now you are finding out she has the backup of YOUR locations. Those same locations her sneaky lawyer can use to create this wild ass scenario that makes you look bad for reasons A, B and C.

Personal stuff needs to stay private and secure. It's incredible what malicious people can do with it it.

 

[Fredrick]

Oh dear

Hear we go again, who ever filed the law suit, get a life. Lifes not all about trying to make money out of others, enjoy the product for what it is. And not from what you can make out of it!, and if your worried about being tracked, then you must be doing something wrong!!!!

 

[Warbrain]

Except secured

It's not secured. Just purged correctly.

 

[Slim02]

Normally I would argue that the customer doesn't have a right to a lot of things. But in this case - if you bought a device and it is tracking you (I'm not saying it is or it isn't) - the customer does have a right to know.

This (sort of) reminds me of how now your are legally allowed to get a free credit report once a year to determine whether or not it's correct. Companies used to make a fortune charging for something that people, inherently had the right to know.

If people learn to read they would know.... Thank to wprowe

http://www.apple.com/privacy/

Look at the section on Location-based Services. You agree that Apple can track your specific location including GPS data.

Quote:
Location-Based Services

To provide location-based services on Apple products, Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. For example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services.

Some location-based services offered by Apple, such as the MobileMe “Find My iPhone” feature, require your personal information for the feature to work.

 

[iansilv]

wow, this has officially been blown out of proportion!

Yup!

The GOVERNMENT must get a warrant- that attorney is an idiot. Things like the iPhone tracking people's location is not the same thing as a federal officer getting a warrant for tracking someone.

Hey attorney- thanks for making our profession look idiotic!

 

[Consultant]

Nike+iPod must be an even more serious privacy violation. After all, it knows how fast I'm going and my calories burned. And it sends the data to nikeplus.com!

Yeah, both iPhone/iPod GPS and Nike+iPod store the information only on my device and sync it only to my other devices, sending it elsewhere only if I want. But if I can make money by suing about it then I'll ignore those inconvenient facts!

Now that's a serious violation of privacy!

GOOD!!

If Apple is not doing it, then they'll have to explain what is going on.

How rude and arrogant for them to not come clean and just address the questions head-on.

They owe us an explanation. We have a right to know what the device do and do not do.

LOL. Maybe you don't understand that

1. Apple does NOT track you.
2. The data sits you YOUR device.
3. You agreed to send your location to location based ads, but that's not what the lawsuit is about.

 

[christophermdia]

In the end, these people will settle with Apple for the purchase price of their devices and location services will not be turned off. I dont understand what the big deal is, I have nothing to hide, who cares if someone knows where I am, trust me they are not that exciting of places, Home-->Daycare-->Work-->Lunch-->Work-->Daycare-->Home....if I stray from that its the grocery store between daycare and home....Sure hope Apple doesnt show up to any of those place to say they found me!