Federal Lawsuit Filed Over Apple's Location Tracking in iOS [Updated]

[musiciscool]

to your advantage....

don't forget if you are ever wrongfully accused, it might be to your advantage that your iphone has a file of where you were. Although I'm sure when used to defend yourself lawyers would argue you might not have had the phone with you, and if used to accuse you, of course the phone was with you.....etc.

 

[0815]

Bet they use this data for iADs.

What makes you think this?

It is funny how people really try to make huge issues out of none-issues by throwing random accusations out there. Things like that are born out of blind hate for Apple and are not good for anything (well, they show something about the writer of those comment, but that's all).

Are you trying to scare people away form Apple and don't find any 'good' arguments so that you have to make up some?

 

[gnasher729]

So? I think you missed the point completely. Why should a pubic company be any less responsible? The point is - some people here want to give Apple a free pass because it's Apple. And/or they are apathetic about giving out their location 24/7.

Other companies would fry on these boards for doing the same.

Anyone giving Apple a free pass is stupid. However, equally stupid are those who believe that a file _stored on their phone_ which is only accessible to the legitimate owner of the phone, or to a criminal stealing the phone, or possibly to law enforcement investigating a crime, is a risk for their privacy, when the phone contains information that is hundred times more dangerous, like emails, text messages, documents, browser caches, browser history, and whatever I didn't think off.

And equally stupid are those who take this file as evidence that Apple is doing something evil, like tracking them - when it is common sense that Apple doesn't need this file if they wanted to track anyone (which I think would be illegal), and if they did something illegal, then there wouldn't be evidence in the open to be seen. Your phone detects WiFi or a cell tower, _asks Apple where they are located_, and stores the information in this file. So Apple _knows_ at that point where you are. Apple says they don't store this information. Whether you trust them or not is up to you, but Apple doesn't need that file on your phone because all the information in the file is information that _Apple sent to your phone_.

I've known for a long time that every time I log in to a website, my whereabouts are known.

If there is no 3G in play: Your IP address is known to the website; if they get a court order they can find out who you are (unless you are in an Internet cafe, breaking into someone's wireless network etc.). They can guess your location roughly based on the IP address, but sometimes this guess will be completely wrong. Don't know how it works with 3G.

Every time I make a cellular call my whereabouts are known.

To the phone company, within the range of a cell tower. I think they could technically get your location even more precise (they could for example find the signal strength of the three nearest towers and calculate where you are). The person you call doesn't know where you are.

Every time I access data on my phone my whereabouts are known.

Same as above. I don't know whether a website can get your location. I don't think they can get it without a court order, but they should be able to get it with a court order.

Every time I use my GPS, my whereabouts are known.

Not at all. GPS is one way from a satellite to your GPS. If you use "assisted GPS", the rough location and the time when you switched on your GPS can be known. Apple's horrible file actually should prevent this if you turn your GPS on near a cell tower or WiFi that is present in this file.

 

[bbeagle]

There is a Original that is not being shown for some reason.

The 'Certificate of Live Birth' IS the official birth certificate. Check your birth certificate. This is what it is. The 'other' certificate the republicanes are talking about is the internal hospital's records. This is not released to ANYONE except doctors at that hospital. Go and try to get yours then tell me how easy this is.

Explain away why the Honolulu newspaper printed a birth announcement for Barack Obama the day after he was born. Did someone in Kenya decide on August 5, 1961 to have an announcement printed in a Hawaii newspaper knowing that this baby would someday run for president? Wow. That is SUCH A LEAP!

 

[slackpacker]

The 'Certificate of Live Birth' IS the official birth certificate. Check your birth certificate. This is what it is. The 'other' certificate the republicanes are talking about is the internal hospital's records. This is not released to ANYONE except doctors at that hospital. Go and try to get yours then tell me how easy this is.

Explain away why the Honolulu newspaper printed a birth announcement for Barack Obama the day after he was born. Did someone in Kenya decide on August 5, 1961 to have an announcement printed in a Hawaii newspaper knowing that this baby would someday run for president? Wow. That is SUCH A LEAP!

I'm not disputing it. I'm just saying do you know all the facts no. I know there is a legal document that is a valid Birth Certificate....Ok I know. But there was a CNN report last night that confirms that there is an Original. Its not lost its not hard to get (Wait 3 weeks). People have seen it. They say this still confirms he's legal. What I ask is if it exists, why not show it? All I can think of is he does not want his personal info to get out to the public..... Much the same as we have here with our Friendly cell phone providers.

 

[sotorious]

if anyone gets accused for a murder hand them your iphone to prove that you were not there!

 

[nate13]

The 'Certificate of Live Birth' IS the official birth certificate. Check your birth certificate. This is what it is. The 'other' certificate the republicanes are talking about is the internal hospital's records. This is not released to ANYONE except doctors at that hospital. Go and try to get yours then tell me how easy this is.

Explain away why the Honolulu newspaper printed a birth announcement for Barack Obama the day after he was born. Did someone in Kenya decide on August 5, 1961 to have an announcement printed in a Hawaii newspaper knowing that this baby would someday run for president? Wow. That is SUCH A LEAP!

Woah. Good point... but I came here to check what was going on in this apple case! Who brought up politics!!!? :/

 

[samcraig]

The apathy on this thread is amazing.

 

[rtheb]

if anyone gets accused for a murder hand them your iphone to prove that you were not there!

That would only prove that your iPhone wasn't there or you had removed the battery.

 

[nrechtman]

I find it interesting that some people are freaking out over this

The only reason some of you are worried about your phone tracking your location is that you must be doing something sinister, are you a terrorist lurking around the country you're in and you're afraid the government might get this information and stop you? The rest of us could care less even if it was happening.
I personally would like to know that if something happened to me that if my phone was still on me and operational, that I could be found, I personally know how a murder was solved and the murderer was arrested because of the iPhone.

It was a good thing that the murderer stole his victims iPhone, because the police were able to track the cell tower locations that it latched onto from the time of the murder and it's movements afterwards.

 

[mccldwll]

Woah. Good point... but I came here to check what was going on in this apple case! Who brought up politics!!!? :/

Just birther stupidity. The common element is tinfoil hats.

 

[samcraig]

The only reason some of you are worried about your phone tracking your location is that you must be doing something sinister, are you a terrorist lurking around the country you're in and you're afraid the government might get this information and stop you? The rest of us could care less even if it was happening.
I personally would like to know that if something happened to me that if my phone was still on me and operational, that I could be found, I personally know how a murder was solved and the murderer was arrested because of the iPhone.

It was a good thing that the murderer stole his victims iPhone, because the police were able to track the cell tower locations that it latched onto from the time of the murder and it's movements afterwards.

Yeah - that's the ONLY reason why some people are worried.

Seriously?

I don't think anyone is arguing against triangulation, location based services and the phone company knowing where you are. There's a difference between current location data and storing months/years of data.

Someone above said that Apple doesn't need the data because they send it to the phone. A) this is false and B) if they don't need it - they can provide a way for it to be deleted or at least encrypted.

No big deal.

 

[NebulaClash]

I don't understand the hatred of Apple. It's gone totally off the deep end. Is there a Rush Limbaugh on the radio spouting anti-Apple remarks for 3 hours a day that I don't know about? Where is it coming from? Seriously!

The hatred of Apple comes from its success. In the tech industry, all the way since at least the 1980s, a standard PR approach when you cannot beat your competitor in the marketplace is to try to beat them in the field of public opinion. Microsoft became famous for using friendly press folks to push all sorts of nonsense that benefited Microsoft while stoking uncertainty about Microsoft's competitors.

People mostly ignored Apple in the 1990s when the only story was a "Apple is dying" story. Then came the iPod. Every other company assumed they could beat the iPod, and the press willingly published these brash predictions. Year after year they tried, and year after year they failed. They thought it would be the Mac vs PC war all over again with the same results, and didn't realize what made that war so unique. Once they realized they were NEVER going to beat the iPod, they got concerned, but hey, this was only the music player market.

Then came the iPhone. Once again they scoffed, and then gradually realized it was going to be the iPod all over again, and then they got scared. That's when you started to read "Apple is evil" stories in the media. It's the old PR strategy again. It never changes. If you can't beat them in the marketplace, lie about them in the media and get gullible people to think the competition is bad.

So where does hatred of Apple come from? From here:

1. PR efforts to make Apple look bad.
2. Gullible people who believe what they read.
3. A group of Open Software types who ideologically have hated Apple since forever.
4. People who buy competing products and feel emotionally better if they can find a reason to hate Apple (thereby validating their choice) -- See point 1 for resources to hate Apple.

 

[D-Dave]

While I do not care very much about my personal movement data, the whole issue raises a couple of questions:

a. if neither apple nor anyone else can access this database, what's the point of it? (Number 1 rule for ensuring privacy is not to collect unnecessary data in the first place)

b. if I turn off location services, why is my locvation still stored in this database? after all only the cell-provider needs to know my nearest cell tower to connect a call, NOT my phone

c. to those that stated "simply delete the file" how is this done without jailbreaking my phone?

So to sum things up, even if the current situation does not concern me too much and I think the damages part of the lawsuit is rather humorous, I would am very interested in answers to the questions above.

 

[nostresshere]

Why don't people take a moment and get some of their facts straight.

1 - The data is very vague. Have you run the program?

2 - The data stays with the user. It does not go to Apple.

3 - There is way more private and sensitive information stored on your phone and pc.

4 - Suing a company does not take money from them. If they lose, they pay for things by charging people MORE money. So, the consumer pays in the end.

 

[cmaier]

would you buy a car while the original owners still have a copy of the keys, oh wait, they wont tell you,

go get a real job now man, if apple is not paying you then your certainly a loser to protect the wrong doing of any company, people have the right to refuse this IF THEY KNEW IT, apple took those rights under false pretenses, that is fraud as well, i bet the fines are in the millions

"fraud" doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Yeah - that's the ONLY reason why some people are worried.

Seriously?

I don't think anyone is arguing against triangulation, location based services and the phone company knowing where you are. There's a difference between current location data and storing months/years of data.

Someone above said that Apple doesn't need the data because they send it to the phone. A) this is false and B) if they don't need it - they can provide a way for it to be deleted or at least encrypted.

No big deal.

Let's be done.

Apple will change the ios to take care of the dumb people who can't figure this out. Case closed

 

[samcraig]

So where does hatred of Apple come from? From here:

1. PR efforts to make Apple look bad.
2. Gullible people who believe what they read.
3. A group of Open Software types who ideologically have hated Apple since forever.
4. People who buy competing products and feel emotionally better if they can find a reason to hate Apple (thereby validating their choice) -- See point 1 for resources to hate Apple.

I disagree. And I also disagree that just because you don't like something Apple does it makes you a hater or have hatred for an organization. There are many reason why people may not like aspects of how Apple operates as a company. The four you list are sophomoric and a very black and white view from someone who appears to be soley pro-Apple biased.

One issue Apple is facing currently is that they are not the underdog anymore. They are one of the largest corporations and with that they get held under greater scrutiny - for better or worse.

 

[tbrinkma]

Google was already sued and payed 83,000 K i believe or 100,000 K for collecting data of users routers with a device they refused to show in response, in fact they lied like apple until they finally showed the EU the device's unique ID while claiming it was a accident that they collected 8TB of users routers, passwords, device ID of router which means they simulated the routers ID and went on the net like pirates, if they want to, and so on.

While Google and other social networking sites are free Apple sold a object have it be a car, home or ipad but while with out the customers knowing they kept a copy of the keys.

Not quite. What Google got dinged for was the fact that they had collected and stored private, personal data (emails and the like) which had been collected along with the router/wi-fi information. Let's not compound one panicked spread of misinformation with another.

 

[MSlaw]

Look out Apple...the chattel are beginning to rise. I hope these power-hungry thugs (Apple) get taken to the cleaners. Sad that Apple now views our location as a resource to be exploited.

Guy....they are suing for the cost of the devices.....

 

[NebulaClash]

While I do not care very much about my personal movement data, the whole issue raises a couple of questions:

a. if neither apple nor anyone else can access this database, what's the point of it? (Number 1 rule for ensuring privacy is not to collect unnecessary data in the first place)

b. if I turn off location services, why is my locvation still stored in this database? after all only the cell-provider needs to know my nearest cell tower to connect a call, NOT my phone

c. to those that stated "simply delete the file" how is this done without jailbreaking my phone?

So to sum things up, even if the current situation does not concern me too much and I think the damages part of the lawsuit is rather humorous, I would am very interested in answers to the questions above.

The answers are quite simple: Your phone needs to know your location so that you can use those nifty features like checking your location on the Map, or simply being able to quickly connnect to the nearest cell tower.

If you don't want that file on your Mac's hard disk, just delete it. Search for 'consolidated.db' and delete it. I did that months ago when this story first broke. It's still gone. So when I checked that map app to see where I've been, it halted with an error message saying it could not find that file. Problem solved.

 

[mccldwll]

The hatred of Apple comes from its success. In the tech industry, all the way since at least the 1980s, a standard PR approach when you cannot beat your competitor in the marketplace is to try to beat them in the field of public opinion. Microsoft became famous for using friendly press folks to push all sorts of nonsense that benefited Microsoft while stoking uncertainty about Microsoft's competitors.

People mostly ignored Apple in the 1990s when the only story was a "Apple is dying" story. Then came the iPod. Every other company assumed they could beat the iPod, and the press willingly published these brash predictions. Year after year they tried, and year after year they failed. They thought it would be the Mac vs PC war all over again with the same results, and didn't realize what made that war so unique. Once they realized they were NEVER going to beat the iPod, they got concerned, but hey, this was only the music player market.

Then came the iPhone. Once again they scoffed, and then gradually realized it was going to be the iPod all over again, and then they got scared. That's when you started to read "Apple is evil" stories in the media. It's the old PR strategy again. It never changes. If you can't beat them in the marketplace, lie about them in the media and get gullible people to think the competition is bad.

So where does hatred of Apple come from? From here:

1. PR efforts to make Apple look bad.
2. Gullible people who believe what they read.
3. A group of Open Software types who ideologically have hated Apple since forever.
4. People who buy competing products and feel emotionally better if they can find a reason to hate Apple (thereby validating their choice) -- See point 1 for resources to hate Apple.

Also, lots of crap is started and pushed in an effort to drive down the stock price, even if only a bit or for a short period of time. It does provide a day job for some of the paid trolls who hang out on macrumors and bash aapl full time. I guess the work environment beats saying "would you like fries with that"--just not as ethical or respectable.

 

[NebulaClash]

I disagree. And I also disagree that just because you don't like something Apple does it makes you a hater or have hatred for an organization. There are many reason why people may not like aspects of how Apple operates as a company. The four you list are sophomoric and a very black and white view from someone who appears to be soley pro-Apple biased.

One issue Apple is facing currently is that they are not the underdog anymore. They are one of the largest corporations and with that they get held under greater scrutiny - for better or worse.

It's a complicated issue, and for a certainty there are other reasons for not liking Apple. But what I wrote is valid. Those are reasons for people hating Apple. It happens exactly as I described. It's a standard technique that has been used for decades.

 

[Thisis]

The apathy on this thread is amazing.

Apple will follow you until you drop you iphone, pa-pa-paparazi

 

[paul4339]

I think that Google should be more concerned about the outcome (and implications) of this.

P.