Federal Lawsuit Filed Over Apple's Location Tracking in iOS [Updated]

[Popeye206]

Anybody doing credit card fraud would have a somewhat better chance of staying undetected if they knew you usually whereabouts. Credit card companies use highly evolved software to track if a CC transaction is unusual.

I think it is save to assume that most people do not store their credit card number in plain text on their computer. If some piece of software (eg, a browser) would do this, wouldn't this be something you preferred it would not do?

Ahhhh..... dude... I'm more worried about my wallet being stolen.

Again... the tower tracking does nothing and for your average crook to put your iPhone database together with your physical credit card... for what? They slash and burn not sit there and try and sort out if you go to Target or JC Penneys more. What do they care?

Come one people... think and come back to earth.

 

[MSlaw]

They would have to prove that the data is being transmitted. And for the purchase price? lol They probably shorted a bunch of apple stock before they did this.

 

[the vj]

Oups!!!!

Jobs.... you better say sorry dude.

 

[840quadra]

I love how Media and most everyone was asleep about this known issue, until just recently, and now it is some kind of emergency.

I am not an Apple apologist by any means, but it is NOT their fault if people are not securely backing up, their personal and private data.

Apple's only fault (IMHO) is not encrypting the location logfile on the phone, or the system with regards to backups. Regardless, security of data is the end user's responsibility, not the manufacturer of their computer or software.

 

[rjohnstone]

On any android device, you can opt out beginning with the setup of the device. It's not hidden in the TOS when you buy the device.

This...
You are explicitly asked if you want Google to collect this information.
You can say NO. It does reduce the accuracy of some programs when you opt out, but YOU have the choice.

You do have the option to enable this feature at any time if you feel you need too.

 

[maelstromr]

Where did I say Apple is exploiting me?

Apple did a shoddy programming job by not encrypting the data. Thaty is why Apple is under pressure by the various govenments and rightfully so. Nobody says Apple is using this data in a malicious way. (aside of this lawsuit but that is only here in the USA and stupid and greed driven by lawyers and totally besides the real issue)

Maybe next time read the post you are responding to - rather negatively to boot. The post I quoted discussed Apple exploiting people.

 

[logandzwon]

Perhaps this is like CCTV systems in the workplace.

You are allowed by law to fit them, however staff must be told they are there.

Perhaps it's just that the public need to be made away this is being done, and not done secretly. If people knew, then this would be a non story in the 1st place.

ya.. not like it's on right on the "features" page of iphone's website, ( http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/ .) It isn't like they have a whole page about it, ( http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/maps-compass.html .)

Who would think the an electronic device such as an iPhone would know your exactly location? And why would any cache information locally when the same exactly information can be gotten over a slow, inconsistent connection?

 

[Popeye206]

This...
You are explicitly asked if you want Google to collect this information.
You can say NO. It does reduce the accuracy of some programs when you opt out, but YOU have the choice.

You do have the option to enable this feature at any time if you feel you need too.

Same on the iPhone... this is not what we're talking about here. Application tracking has always been opt in or out.

This is just a database of cell tower pings. That's all. it's shared with NO ONE and goes nowhere except on your phone. It's like your web browser cache.

 

[rjohnstone]

ya.. not like it's on right on the "features" page of iphone's website, ( http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/ .) It isn't like they have a whole page about it, ( http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/maps-compass.html .)

Who would think the an electronic device such as an iPhone would know your exactly location? And why would any cache information locally when the same exactly information can be gotten over a slow, inconsistent connection?

Location services is not the same as storing every place you've ever been.
Why does the db never get cleared?

If location info is required for an app, why would I want to use info from possibly over a year ago that may no longer be accurate?

I won't put on a tinfoil hat just yet. For now I'll just chalk this issue up to sloppy programming.

Same on the iPhone... this is not what we're talking about here. Application tracking has always been opt in or out.

This is just a database of cell tower pings. That's all. it's shared with NO ONE and goes nowhere except on your phone. It's like your web browser cache.

Apple still fails to answer the question of "why?"
Why do they need it if it is not used?

I know why a web browser has a cache. At least the web browser is smart enough to clean that up after a while.

 

[cjoy]

Brings to mind:

If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.

statistics show that distribution of firearms mainly lead to more homocides and also suicides using firearms.
if guns are outlawed, their distribution is greatly limited, making it a lot harder for outlaws to obtain them.

the more you spread guns, the greater is the risk of them being used in illegal activities.

..oh wait... this forum is about apple and computers, right?

 

[andiwm2003]

Maybe next time read the post you are responding to - rather negatively to boot. The post I quoted discussed Apple exploiting people.

So an old post says apple is exploiting them and you imply I said that then? I said on numerous occasions clearly that this is not about Apple using this data. Interesting way to quote posts you have there

 

[aloshka]

"a perfect storm", "overreaction", "typical for the us to sue.."

... sorry, but in what ways do I benefit by having apple track my whereabouts to the day and meter? why isn't there an opt-in (apart from the general 'eat **** or die' TOU) or at least an opt-out for this? why is it so easy to access the data?

... apple deserves to get a beating for this.
they're known for focussing on the user in terms of design and UI of theirdevices... they should also make the step to focus on their users best interest in terms of privacy and freedom, rather than their own greed.

You obviously missed the point that they do not track anything. It's just a log file on your iphone, it stays with your iphone. I GOT even more news!! I FOUND a file on the iphone that stores text messages. YES PEOPLE text messages. I can read your text messages from this file if I have your phone!! Oh ya, I know you can launch the SMS app, but WHY WOULD APPLE NEED TO STORE TEXT MESSAGES ON MY DEVICE?!?! I'm suing!!

 

[jpine]

I dont understand how anyone would get the info from your phone.

Easy.

http://thenextweb.com/us/2011/04/20/us-police-can-copy-your-iphones-contents-in-under-two-minutes/

 

[ThunderSkunk]

...if there is no apparent good in tracking personal data, one should object to it.

I think thats the whole thing this boils down to. Apple doesn't track you, your phone does (course, so does everything else), but Apple enables this by default because they see apps being able to utilize Location Services as a feature that'll enhance the user experience.

If they'd:
1. disable it by default and make users choose to enable it
2. encrypt the file regardless of user encryption settings

this whole thing would probably go away and they'd save themselves an expensive trial.

They're going to need to run an advert and explain this after all the nasty PR tho. Otherwise people are going to be left believing they're big brother.

 

[Bonfire]

Such a waste of time. If they're really that bothered by the "tracking," someone needs to tell them to put their phones on eBay and they'll get their money back in about 3 days to put towards another phone.

 

[marksman]

Dumb people.

Case dismissed.

If Apple was smart they would ban these two idiots from ever buying an Apple product again.

 

[dscottbuch]

"a perfect storm", "overreaction", "typical for the us to sue.."

... sorry, but in what ways do I benefit by having apple track my whereabouts to the day and meter? why isn't there an opt-in (apart from the general 'eat **** or die' TOU) or at least an opt-out for this? why is it so easy to access the data?

... apple deserves to get a beating for this.
they're known for focussing on the user in terms of design and UI of theirdevices... they should also make the step to focus on their users best interest in terms of privacy and freedom, rather than their own greed.

Perfect example of 'journalists' not taking the time to explain what is really happening and then 'reader' not trying to understand. Apple receives NONE of this information. No One receives any of this information. Its simply another file on your phone. Should they (Apple) fix this - YES. Is anyone aware of ANY harm done to ANY person by this (other than the catch-all psychological harm which can't really be quantified) - I doubt it.

Even the theory that this could be used against you by law enforcement is flawed as I would bet that collection of this data by a law enforcement agency would be prohibited as it was NOT opted into by the user.

There is NO HARM here to actually litigate - so the conclusion that the lawyers are money grubbers.

 

[err404]

Do you know this for certain?
As far as I'm concerned, I am pretty sure apple does track this information. Why else force everyone that wants to use apples devices to agree to this in their TOU?

Of course I can't prove it, but I'm not the one making the claim of malicious intent. The burden is on you. I see a legitimate use for this data being cached locally on my device, and have seen no reason to suspect that it is being used for anything else.

Sorry, but thats b.s.
The i-devices query apple's db to match SID and geolocation, not the local dump... and apart from that, you wouldnt have to log SID's more than once and certainly not with include the timestamp each time.

I looked at the data on my phone, and the data for each spot is not logged more then once. As for the time stamp, they need some means of determining the freshness of the data.

given past vulnerabilities of iOS via the pdf rendering and major security flaws in safari, this scenario is far more likely than you make it sound.

I agree that it's an issue that needs to be addressed. However I would be far more worried about the flaw that allowed access then I would about my cell tower cache getting into the wild.

two wrongs dont make a right.
that said, the provider has no technical means to log more detailed location data than apple. they use the same methods if triangulation and unlike apple have no access to SID signal strength and GPS data.

The cell providers log each tower that you connect to. you iPhone only logs new towers (plus periodic updates). Due to this, the log on your phone is not very useful for analyzing trends in location or your whereabouts at a specific time.

 

[jp102235]

I could have sworn that the fed govt is barred from spying on us, but private citizens can do this all day long.

 

[rjohnstone]

You obviously missed the point that they do not track anything. It's just a log file on your iphone, it stays with your iphone. I GOT even more news!! I FOUND a file on the iphone that stores text messages. YES PEOPLE text messages. I can read your text messages from this file if I have your phone!! Oh ya, I know you can launch the SMS app, but WHY WOULD APPLE NEED TO STORE TEXT MESSAGES ON MY DEVICE?!?! I'm suing!!

Just like web caching, storing text messages is part of the function of the messaging app. It serves a purpose of giving YOU a history.
And guess what... you can clear it.

 

[Digitalclips]

My Garmin saves way points too!

 

[gwangung]

Location services is not the same as storing every place you've ever been.
Why does the db never get cleared?

If location info is required for an app, why would I want to use info from possibly over a year ago that may no longer be accurate?

I won't put on a tinfoil hat just yet. For now I'll just chalk this issue up to sloppy programming.


Apple still fails to answer the question of "why?"
Why do they need it if it is not used?

I know why a web browser has a cache. At least the web browser is smart enough to clean that up after a while.

While I would also like to know why, I'm not sure this is a big deal as it seems to me that the remedy to going to be very simple: a) encryption is on by default, and/or b) flushing the database after, say, six months.

 

[JoeG4]

http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/22/google-our-smartphone-location-tracking-is-opt-in/

Just like iOS, the data is opt-in on Android Phones - better yet, Google tells you what they're going to do with it if you opt-in, unlike Apple.

Also: iTunes communicates with iPods and iPhones over an encrypted tunnel, both iOS and iTunes are fairly closed source to the point that they MIGHT be using this information and not telling you.

Either way, the fact that Apple never asks is disturbing, and BOTH practices should be illegal. To what benefit is this information to them? Opt-in for traffic status on navigation would be fair IF the navigation program (which is free with Android phones) was in use - that I could understand.

The amount of sensationalism and Apple apologism here as usual, is kinda sad. Lemme get this straight, you're ashamed of people standing up for their right to privacy? Personally I think MS and Google should also be banned from collecting this type of data unless they tell the user what they're doing with it in large print (and 1 sentence) and allow you to opt out.

 

[gnasher729]

it looks like a different world from today,
but really it's less than 70 years ago that we had the NAZI regime here in germany. it's less than 25 years ago that we had an repressive surveillance society in east germany. if there is no apparent good in tracking personal data, one should object to it.

you shouldn't have to reason against collecting and storing personal data if it isnt a real necessity.
there's enough data stored about you, me and anyone in todays digitalized world as is.

1. The phone company knows roughly where you are whenever you use a mobile phone. They have to, it is technically unavoidable, because your phone has to contact a cell tower to work, and they have to know which cell tower. And if you call me, they also have to know what cell tower I am connected to because they need to send your voice from your cell tower to my cell tower.

2. Everyone who is close to your WiFi router knows where it is, because it continuously transmits its MAC number to the world (within 100 meters if you are lucky). Again, it is technically unavoidable, so that your device knows who to talk to, and not to your neighbours WiFi router which transmits a different MAC number.

3. Your computer sends an IP address every time you go to any website. And again, it has to, because otherwise no server that you talk to would know where to send a reply.

So whatever you do, you are identifiable. MacRumors has your IP address. I suppose that they will never use it, except if you post something that would get the police interested, in which case I assume they will find out who you are.

What's annoying is that I think about six months ago Apple had to give an official answer about what data they collect and keep and why and so on, and that was all on show here on MacRumors as well. And now someone finds this file, and all the conspiracy theories come out, and the most obvious argument against all these conspiracy theories is that if Apple was up to something evil, you wouldn't know about it.

 

[aloshka]

My Garmin saves way points too!

SUE THEM!!!! I don't understand how my personal information can be on my phone. I'm suing everyone! I'm suing mac rumors too, because I just posted a private message, and it's visible on this forum.