Feedback wanted: pencil on iPad Pro 10.5 in OneNote

Discussion in 'iPad' started by KrisJa, Jun 23, 2017.

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  1. KrisJa, Jun 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017

    KrisJa macrumors newbie

    KrisJa

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    #1
    After recently having bought the new 10.5 inch model after having owned the 9.7 model I experienced an issue in the App I use the most every day: OneNote. I use it for all work related note taking, which is _a lot_.

    Disclaimer: Prior to thinking about posting in these forums I asked about this over at Ask Different and MS's own forums, without receiving much useful feedback.

    Long story short, below is a zoom of text written at almost the same time with the same pencil in the same note and the same posture and writing speed on the 9.7 iPad Pro (top) and the new 10.5 (bottom):

    Screenshot 2017-06-23 14.22.57.png

    All writing on the new devices looks jittery and 'off'. Even at normal magnification, you can immediately tell.

    I checked:

    1) The pencil: tip secure, new tip, (edit: other pencil), ...
    2) Resetting the device (the 10.5)
    3) Resetting OneNote (wiping the data from the app, removing it and re-install, even with a 'clean' account
    4) Nebo notes also shows the issue, also Autodesk Sketch
    5) Apple Notes does not show the issue, neither do Notability or Goodnotes
    6) Exchanging the 10.5 for a new one.

    On 4 and 5: a lot of processing can be done on pencil data: curves can be smoothed etc so it could account for seeing this in some apps and not in others, depending on how they process the data.

    At this point, it could be SW or HW:

    1) HW issues could be hidden by the post processing on the raw pencil data
    2) It could be that some SW is just not equipped to handle the pencil data on the 10.5 that might or might not come in at a higher rate.

    I would love to get feedback from other 10.5 owners running OneNote specifically.

    EDIT

    The issue also appears in Nebo:

    Old iPad 9.7:

    2017-06-23 18.40.48.png

    New iPad:

    2017-06-23 18.30.53.png

    EDIT 2

    I have researched this further. I found an excellent web resource on Apple Pencil input processing in iOS apps. That page contains runnable code that allows one to see raw pencil strokes with various layers of processing added to it:

    • To account for ultimately limited speed of apps, iOS offers 'coalescence' on touch events, i.e. it records touches for you while you might have been busy processing previous touches
    • It offers prediction on where the touch (pencil) is heading
    In below screenshots, the strokes are red and the predictions are blue.

    iPad Pro 9.7: Here, the blue predictions actually stay close to the actual trajectory that was drawn. As a result, the curves are also smooth.

    2017-06-23 22.12.27.png

    iPad Pro 10.5: With a similar drawing style, the blue predictions deviate significantly from the drawn line and seem to extend further. This might explain why the ultimately drawn line looks so jagged.

    2017-06-23 22.10.43.png
    That still doesn't solve my question: is my iPad faulty or has something changed in the way the iPad supplies touch events to the apps, i.e., should I exchange my device or just wait for apps to be updated?

    To be continued ...
     
  2. KrisLord macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Location:
    Northumberland, UK
    #2
    10.5 here and onenote looks like the 9.7 example on mine, running iOS 11 beta 2.

    The only thing I can see is the pixel level aliasing you see on the 9.7, note of the jittery ink.
     
  3. KrisJa thread starter macrumors newbie

    KrisJa

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    #3
    Hmmm, that is what I was afraid of a bit. This is my second 10.5 device. Let's see what others say.

    Thanks though!
     
  4. KrisJa thread starter macrumors newbie

    KrisJa

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  5. Dave Meadows macrumors 68020

    Dave Meadows

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  6. mikemj23 macrumors 6502

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    Jul 27, 2010
    #6
    I use it all the time and don't have any issues.
     
  7. KrisJa thread starter macrumors newbie

    KrisJa

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    Jan 7, 2017
    #7
    OK, that's telling... then I think I will return my device... don't want to take a 1200 CAD risk with this.

    But what are the chances, this is already the second one.
     
  8. c14nhl macrumors 6502

    c14nhl

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    Oct 30, 2008
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    #8
    I don't have a 10.5" but as I use OneNote daily, it was the first app I opened in store when trying out the new iPads.

    I tried it on both the 10.5" & 12.9", both worked perfectly, my hand writing looked exactly as it does currently on my 9.7".
     
  9. Dave Meadows macrumors 68020

    Dave Meadows

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    #9
    You could try downloading the app again? I just downloaded it to try. Or try Apples notes. She how it is on that.
     
  10. KrisJa thread starter macrumors newbie

    KrisJa

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    Jan 7, 2017
    #10
    Hi @Dave Meadows , while I appreciate the time you took to reply, I already explained that I tried re-installing the app, clearing it's data etc... Moreover, the Nebo app also shows it when installed fresh, as seen in my screenshots).

    Apple Notes does not show this issue but then again, it might process the pencil touch data differently.

    The edits above show how I used a hand made app to get access to the 'raw' pencil data: it shows how my 10.5 hardware behaves much more erratically compared to the 9.7: the touch predictions are all over the place and seem to be behaving oddly. Whether this is by design or not, I don't know and it will be hard to figure out as other users might not be able to install and run this code.

    That, combined with the fact that there also seem to be 10.5 users that use OneNote without issue makes me think there might in fact be an underlying HW issue. It is not 100% sure because I don't know how others have used OneNote (zoom level, force on the pencil, ...) but I think I am not going to take chances with my heard earned money in this case ...
    --- Post Merged, Jun 24, 2017 ---
    @c14nhl But you tried it in-store you mean? Because there, they run much older builds of OneNote which might not be a good reference. iPads in stores run a custom SW image. The version of OneNote on those is 15.something, a build from 2016 whereas the current App Store version is 16.2.1

    It is true that also here, the in-store devices do not show the issue but again, SW processing can also play a role there.

    That is what makes this so hard for me to figure out: I have no other 10.5 device with the newest version of OneNote or Nebo to do a direct comparison. If all devices would show the things I posted here, it would most likely be SW.

    If otoh, there would be devices that don't do this with these exact apps (latest OneNote or Nebo) it would most probably be HW.
     
  11. c14nhl macrumors 6502

    c14nhl

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    #11
    Yeh apologies, I've only tested in store and had no idea about the difference in app versions.
     
  12. KrisJa thread starter macrumors newbie

    KrisJa

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    Jan 7, 2017
    #12
    @c14nhl No worries but then others can still send feedback :)
     
  13. TraceyS/FL macrumors 68040

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    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    #13
    Have you tried a different pencil? I don't have our new iPP yet to try it, but you seem to have checked all the hardware and software boxes except for the pen. Maybe try one of the demo ones in the store even?

    That would drive me crazy, and thankfully I haven't seen it on the current 9.7 that we have in the house.
     
  14. KrisJa thread starter macrumors newbie

    KrisJa

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    Jan 7, 2017
    #14
    @TraceyS/FL Again, thanks for taking the effort to reply but check the OP, the pencil was extensively checked. Moreover, if it was the pencil, it would behave equally bad on my 9.7

    I would like to limit responses to actual accounts from people that have tested OneNote on their own 10.5 inch device.

    Thanks
     
  15. TraceyS/FL, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017

    TraceyS/FL macrumors 68040

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    #15
    Actually, i just zoomed in where I was doodling around the other day and see some spots that i would call jittery. That would be on a 9.7 with OneNote 16.0, and with a pencil received from BB this past week.

    I wouldn't call it a good test though because my experience using the pencil is minimal - kids don't share well with mom! LOL

    ETA: I'll bow out - but will be reading because I will be using OneNote myself. But here is the screen snippet I just took of what I wrote. This was written zoomed in on the page. LOL, sorry if you saw my daughters flight info instead. AirDrop went haywire.
     

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