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Feral: Apple Silicon Opens Up 'Exciting Opportunities' for the Future of Mac Gaming
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The M1 and it’s variations are nearly 60% slower than an 1660Ti in Rise of the Tomb raider for a comparable system according to Anandtech. It’s going to struggle at 1080p for most modern games.
M1 is a pretty amazing first step, but even if Apple cared a single bit about non-iOS gaming, the M1 isn’t really up to the task for new, AAA games. It’s fine enough for the casual gamer who plays strategy games that are more cpu limited and the M1 can crush those games from that aspect.
Apple has demonstrated time and again that modern, AAA gaming is not an interest to them. Their graphics are more tuned towards the video editors and 3D model makers of the world and it seems they want to keep it that way.
I wanna see Diablo 2 Resurrected on the Mac
I’m playing mists of Pandaria on the m1 MacBook Air at 4K60FPS medium-high settings. This is at around 50-60°C (being the MBA fan-less), and using WINE to emulate this older expansion of the game (32/64bit).
I created a YT channel where I test games on the M1 MacBook Air, just to see what this machine is capable of, and it’s quite amazing!
They wont be fixed.A few thoughts from someone who has been following the Mac gaming market for decades – I could still be wrong, but here goes.
Some of the main problems when it comes to gaming on the Mac historically I think are due to:
1. For whatever the reason, the same game performing much worse on the Mac frame rate wise compared to how it runs when started up into Windows on the same hardware.
2. Much weaker graphics card hardware in Macs compared to what you get for your money on the Windows side of things. Desktop tower graphics cards are much more powerful than what the crammed space in a portable Mac and iMac can offer. It has only been the Mac Pro's that has been capable here, and how much of the Mac market share are those machines? Not that large because of the ”pro” price. There are many ”mid tier” desktop PC
Now, if those two tings could be fixed, i.e. performance of a game on similar hardware (difficult to compare to a Windows PC when the CPU and GPU is different as with Apple's M1 chips, I know) and more capable graphics hardware in the hands of more Mac users – I think gaming on Macs could get at least closer to Windows.
The energy efficiency of Apple's Silicon also makes me feel like Apple should help make more games choose the Mac – so much potential energy to save.
All pc games run on direct x. There is no equivalent tech for mac, due to apples control, and there never will be. There is no incentive to invest in mac games either. No one wants to deal with Apple. It doesnt make business sense.
Integrated graphics are still not ad good as discrete.
We Mac users have no config options either.
Basically its a total, soup to nuts disaster scenario for mac folk and gaming. And apple is the culprit. Everyone has moved on.
Gaming never going to happen. Here's my post from when the MacBook Pros were released. And I have felt this way since I knew anything about computers.
M1 Macbook Pro 2021 "120 hz" mini led display very slow, 120 hz are fake, old lcd technology! | Page 7 | MacRumors Forums
"ATTENTION ALL L33T GAM3R$,
THIS IS NOT A GAMING LAPTOP, PERIOD.
THIS IS A LAPTOP FOR PEOPLE WHO MAKE MONEY WITH THEIR LAPTOPS.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
THIS MEANS YOU CAN SAVE ABOUT $1000, GO GET A PC, AND PLAY ALL YOUR GAMES ON IT AND BE HAPPY.
US PROFESSIONALS, WHICH THE MACBOOK PRO IS MADE FOR, DON'T CARE THAT THE SCREENS HAVE SLOW RESPONSE TIME.
DON'T CARE THAT WE CAN'T RUN WINDOWS NATIVELY.
DON'T CARE THAT THE GPU IS WEAKER THAN A RTX 3080 WITH WHATEVER STUPID GAME YOU PLAY.
DON'T CARE THAT THERE AREN'T MANY GAMES MADE FOR IT.
GO BUY YOUR RGB 9 POUND LAPTOPS WITH A POWERBRICK THE SIZE OF A BUILDING BRICK, BE HAPPY, AND LIVE YOUR LIFE.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME DREAMING MACS ARE EVER GOING TO HAVE A GAME LIBRARY.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WRITING THREADS ABOUT STUPID SPECIFICATIONS LIKE SCREEN LATENCY THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME POSTING ABOUT HOW THE NEWEST INTEL CHIPS DEMOLISH THE M1 MAX.
WE DON'T CARE.
GOOD NIGHT."
M1 Macbook Pro 2021 "120 hz" mini led display very slow, 120 hz are fake, old lcd technology! | Page 7 | MacRumors Forums
"ATTENTION ALL L33T GAM3R$,
THIS IS NOT A GAMING LAPTOP, PERIOD.
THIS IS A LAPTOP FOR PEOPLE WHO MAKE MONEY WITH THEIR LAPTOPS.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
THIS MEANS YOU CAN SAVE ABOUT $1000, GO GET A PC, AND PLAY ALL YOUR GAMES ON IT AND BE HAPPY.
US PROFESSIONALS, WHICH THE MACBOOK PRO IS MADE FOR, DON'T CARE THAT THE SCREENS HAVE SLOW RESPONSE TIME.
DON'T CARE THAT WE CAN'T RUN WINDOWS NATIVELY.
DON'T CARE THAT THE GPU IS WEAKER THAN A RTX 3080 WITH WHATEVER STUPID GAME YOU PLAY.
DON'T CARE THAT THERE AREN'T MANY GAMES MADE FOR IT.
GO BUY YOUR RGB 9 POUND LAPTOPS WITH A POWERBRICK THE SIZE OF A BUILDING BRICK, BE HAPPY, AND LIVE YOUR LIFE.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME DREAMING MACS ARE EVER GOING TO HAVE A GAME LIBRARY.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WRITING THREADS ABOUT STUPID SPECIFICATIONS LIKE SCREEN LATENCY THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME POSTING ABOUT HOW THE NEWEST INTEL CHIPS DEMOLISH THE M1 MAX.
WE DON'T CARE.
GOOD NIGHT."
It's the API. In the past Apple used OpenGL which was far inferior to Microsoft's DirectX.
Top end graphics cards can set you back a few G's. I've never understood the appeal, really. For that kind of money, I'd get a PlayStation or Xbox and a nice library of games. I ain't a real gamer since I'm not a fan of WASD.? Not a fan of WASD?!? Blasphamy, y'all say.? Burn the heretic.
Maybe M1 with only 8 GPU cores but certainly not its variations M1 Pro/Max/Ultra. In the first test M1 8 G-cores is about 52% slower than 1660 Ti. It still gets a respectable 40 fps at 1080p on Very High FXAA in Rise of the Tomb Raider.
"Its variations" Pro/Max with 16 and 32 GPU cores though get 47 and 85 fps in Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 1080p on Highest TAA. In the test M1 Max is only 18% slower than 6800M and 16% slower than 3070. M1 Pro is more than twice as fast as M1. Let's not forget that both of those games are running through Rosetta and not optimized for Apple Silicon or its GPU with TBDR.
Here is a comparison between M1 and its variations and many other AMD/Nvidia GPUs running Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
There are AAA games on the iPad and also apple made a WWDC video on keyboard and mouse on iPad games.
I already get great use out of my Apple TV as a gaming console. Nowhere near the realism of other consoles or PCs of course but the fun factor of a game is not always determined by its rendering realism. In fact many times that can hurt a game. A game should be more than just eye candy.
iOS developers have proven for some time now how much can be done with Apple Silicon GPUs and Metal. Every Apple silicon Mac including the MBA is insanely faster than the Apple TV and pretty much every iOS device out there including the 13" XDR iPad Pro.
There is a lot of hardware potential there for some impressive gaming. Especially if games are scalable down to iOS levels. Maybe not every hardware thrashing game will be great but is that a must to be considered a good gaming platform? Many consider their iPhone their best gaming system ever. There are tens of thousands of games for iOS.
The single issue here is not hardware. Its developers not supporting MacOS, Apple Silicon and Metal. Many games that now work are doing so through Rosetta. Developers don't really want to devote resources to doing a proper large scale port. Even Diablo 3 which always worked well on Mac is not doing a full Apple Silicon and Metal port. It does work fairly well however. It could work better.
Another game I tried recently on my base 14" M1 Pro MBP is Path of Exile. So far it works extremely well. Both older games but still played by many and both AAA titles. Both could be even better but it costs money to port properly.
What we need is more iOS developers creating games specifically for MacOS Apple silicon or games for iPhone/iPad that scale better on MacOS to support the better hardware. These are the game developers that know how to get more out of modest hardware and can really make Apple silicon shine for gaming. Apple works very hard to push the limits of gaming on the iPhone. They need to invest and partner with game developers to do the same on Apple Silicon now.
With all that said I pre to play games on the Apple TV. I hope apple puts a much higher end GPU in the Apple TV to help it drive 4k resolution for games. There is so much potential there. I'm one of those that prefer to keep my Mac for work and my other devices for fun. I play games 99% of the time on my Nintendo Switch, Apple TV or iPhone. Sometimes on my iPad Pro if it makes sense. I also have a PC laptop to play some games I just cannot get anywhere else but I rarely use it anymore. I will likely use it for Diablo 4 and the next Star Wars Jedi game but thats really about it. I feel PC games push the GPU limits too much. Its kind of ridiculous to me to invest $1k, 2k or even 3k in a machine that mostly plays games. Just so they look more realistic. I would prefer if game developers would learn to make better use of lower end and modest GPU hardware. I think we could see impressive realism and use much less hardware if developers focused on efficiency more vs brute force GPU power. The way iOS developers have learned to do.
iOS developers have proven for some time now how much can be done with Apple Silicon GPUs and Metal. Every Apple silicon Mac including the MBA is insanely faster than the Apple TV and pretty much every iOS device out there including the 13" XDR iPad Pro.
There is a lot of hardware potential there for some impressive gaming. Especially if games are scalable down to iOS levels. Maybe not every hardware thrashing game will be great but is that a must to be considered a good gaming platform? Many consider their iPhone their best gaming system ever. There are tens of thousands of games for iOS.
The single issue here is not hardware. Its developers not supporting MacOS, Apple Silicon and Metal. Many games that now work are doing so through Rosetta. Developers don't really want to devote resources to doing a proper large scale port. Even Diablo 3 which always worked well on Mac is not doing a full Apple Silicon and Metal port. It does work fairly well however. It could work better.
Another game I tried recently on my base 14" M1 Pro MBP is Path of Exile. So far it works extremely well. Both older games but still played by many and both AAA titles. Both could be even better but it costs money to port properly.
What we need is more iOS developers creating games specifically for MacOS Apple silicon or games for iPhone/iPad that scale better on MacOS to support the better hardware. These are the game developers that know how to get more out of modest hardware and can really make Apple silicon shine for gaming. Apple works very hard to push the limits of gaming on the iPhone. They need to invest and partner with game developers to do the same on Apple Silicon now.
With all that said I pre to play games on the Apple TV. I hope apple puts a much higher end GPU in the Apple TV to help it drive 4k resolution for games. There is so much potential there. I'm one of those that prefer to keep my Mac for work and my other devices for fun. I play games 99% of the time on my Nintendo Switch, Apple TV or iPhone. Sometimes on my iPad Pro if it makes sense. I also have a PC laptop to play some games I just cannot get anywhere else but I rarely use it anymore. I will likely use it for Diablo 4 and the next Star Wars Jedi game but thats really about it. I feel PC games push the GPU limits too much. Its kind of ridiculous to me to invest $1k, 2k or even 3k in a machine that mostly plays games. Just so they look more realistic. I would prefer if game developers would learn to make better use of lower end and modest GPU hardware. I think we could see impressive realism and use much less hardware if developers focused on efficiency more vs brute force GPU power. The way iOS developers have learned to do.
More cores does not equal more better.
You’re giving too much credit to those extra cores. The single threaded performance is where it counts and from standard to Ultra, every variation is nearly the same on single threaded performance.
Idk if you’re referring to 3070 desktop or mobile. Completely different capabilities there. The desktop part is way beyond the 6800M. Even if your numbers were accurate. You’re still saying 16%+18% = 34% slower than a mid-range GPU. Which isn’t impressive. Especially for desktop form computers like the mini or iMac.
Good luck getting games developed with Apple Silicon in mind. Without Apple putting any effort into it, it’s never going to happen. So any potential that is there is wasted from a gaming perspective.
That has nothing to do with lack of mac support. Major game engines support metal and developers dont even have to know they are building metal games. It really is a non issue.
The issue is that developers live and die on PC and have no interest on porting onto mac even tho its just a few extra steps.
Just getting Valve to update/re-work Source and Steam for 64-bit environments would be useful, but they don't have enough energy.
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Yeah, this is a "show me the money" kind of thing. Put up or shut up.
Speaking to a few people off and on in the industry, the perception is still that, regardless of the capabilities of the chip, there's not enough of a market to justify the R&D costs of bringing any game -- port or from the ground up -- to the Mac platform.
I guess Alien Isolation and Divinity 2 are a couple of options, but I agree, more AAA games are needed.
I reckon your only real chance of AAA games on Mac is through Cloud gaming. I’ve had a good experience with Stadia - no latency issues. If Microsoft bring XCloud to Mac, that would be another option, but they seem to be holding off on that for some reason.
Plus I’d rather get a Windows system that lets me play my 500+ (yes I have over 500) games from my Steam library vs a Mac that can only play a few. It will take a decade or more for macs to REALLY be gaming systems. Nobody will give up their massive gaming backlog.
Anyone else get the feeling Apple is sitting back on gaming until they launch the rumoured Glass product? If they truly wanted to jump into gaming they would have invested in AAA studios long ago.
I'm just stating facts in response to your partially incorrect comment. I didn't say more cores is always better but in this case it is. Why do you ignore the numbers that shows more GPU cores are better and just continue with your generalization? We're also discussing gaming and GPUs not CPUs. GPUs always work multithreaded. Why do you first talk about GPU perfomance in Tomb Raider and suddenly change the discussion to the single threaded performance of CPU as the most important factor? In my comment I specifically talk about GPU cores not CPU cores.
I just gave you real test numbers from the same source you're quoting. If you took a look at the articles you refer to yourself you would know which 3070 I'm talking about and if my numbers are accurate or not. Why do you use an incorrect mathematical equation? One GPU being 16% slower and the other 18% slower doesn't make each of them suddenly 34% slower. Neither Mini or iMac has M1 pro or Max. The review article is about Macbooks.
I'm not discussing wasted potential or whether it's going to happen or not or if it's impressive or not. I'm just correcting your generalization.
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Until the day Apple creates or buys a first party AAA gaming studio, I will not believe they are remotely serious about gaming.
My bad. I was not focused on what I was reading when I read and responded to your comment.
Adding the differences in performance between the GPUs was incorrect of me. I misunderstood what you had written.
GPU performance by way of increased cores is still not going to help much on a lot of games. The CPU single core performance does matter because we’re talking about a SoC.
My point is that the M1 Ultra and below are not that great for gaming, even if games were written natively for the platform. The performance will be comparable to mid-range gaming laptops at best. Not horrible, but without that native support it’s all moot.
I think apple should develop a new soc just for a console, cut down on the ia, io and media engine cores to cut costs and release an soc based on a m1 Max/m2 max.
But I think that won’ t happen for the next 2 years, but I hope so!
First step apple should take now would be to entice aaa+ developers to release games for macs based on AS.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider,
It's a relatively old game compared to AAA games today, like CP2077, RDR2, DL2 ...
Beyond that, Shadow of the Tomb Raider version for PC supports RT which is not supported on Mac.