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jayducharme

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2006
4,337
5,217
The thick of it
Apple for some bizarre reason banned post purchase upgrading, the trash can mc pro was not upgradeable....

Am I missing something?
Yes you are. I have the “trash can” and have upgraded it several times. I don’t understand all the hate for that machine. I now have 64 gb of RAM and a 1 tb SSD installed. I upgraded incrementally over the years as I needed to and it’s still working great. FCPX is a joy to use on it.

I see Premiere as a comfort zone for many people. Like so many Adobe products, it works the same old familiar way as it always has. FCPX is approaching editing from a different direction. It took me a while to get familiar with its workflow but now I can’t imagine going back to the old way.
 

loby

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,715
1,295
Yes you are. I have the “trash can” and have upgraded it several times. I don’t understand all the hate for that machine. I now have 64 gb of RAM and a 1 tb SSD installed. I upgraded incrementally over the years as I needed to and it’s still working great. FCPX is a joy to use on it.

I see Premiere as a comfort zone for many people. Like so many Adobe products, it works the same old familiar way as it always has. FCPX is approaching editing from a different direction. It took me a while to get familiar with its workflow but now I can’t imagine going back to the old way.

What SSD did you buy?
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,597
2,946
around the world
It may be too late for Apple to regain prominence, I know a lot of people in the industry who bailed to Adobe Premiere in the last 2 years. Our company just moved about 40 FCP seats to Premiere this year. Unfortunately the botched Final Cut X rollout created sticky negative preconceptions about the product that persisted long after Apple fixed and improved much of it.

I think Apple doesn’t have “the industry” in mind when creating FCPX. Look at how high it ranks in the Mac App Store suggesting they (Apple) sells plenty. I think it is more for the YouTube, Vimeo and home movie crowds and not to create Hollywood millon dollar movies.
 
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Glassed Silver

macrumors 68020
Mar 10, 2007
2,096
2,564
Kassel, Germany
Every 5 years my media group changes out systems. 2012's MacPro upgrade that wasn't really an upgrade was the last straw. My Apple systems went to the render farm. Now in 2017 we view the upcoming iMac Pro as to little too late. It serves us no purpose. In 2 weeks when i'm finished building the new threadripper boxes, our existing workstations will completely replace the Macs in the farm. We'll be a WinLin system front to back.

"""It may be too late for Apple to regain prominence, I know a lot of people in the industry who bailed to Adobe Premiere in the last 2 years. Our company just moved about 40 FCP seats to Premiere this year. Unfortunately the botched Final Cut X rollout created sticky negative preconceptions about the product that persisted long after Apple fixed and improved much of it."""
Wait, hold on hold on hold on...

Are you saying that pros actually research specs and aren't sold on the "experience" and pitched "value" alone? :eek:

Someone needs to tell Tim Cook, poor guy thinks we all just want a wholesome experience with mediocre specs that they "software buff" to some extent.

No wonder pros are leaving Apple left and right, nobody told him, pretty unfair if you ask me...

218.png_large


Glassed Silver:win
 
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CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,597
2,946
around the world

Well. Marketing and target market is two different things.
[doublepost=1509192062][/doublepost]Btw - glad that they added hopefully easier color correction. I never got the wheels. Next stop is I hope sound editing. With Logic team in house they should be able to either create perfect round trip or add the tools to FCPX.
 

alexgowers

macrumors 65816
Jun 3, 2012
1,338
892
Fcpx has always been great for content made quickly without the need for fx or fancy video tricks. The desire to do fancy tricks forces people to adobe but it’s not always for the best.

However I have to agree that the basic tools in fcpx are not only too coarse and lacking but out and out poor. Trying to do a colour grade is impossible and clumsy. I like fcpx, I only wish I had a solid reason to edit video regularly and that the tools weren’t useless.
 

OneTraveler

macrumors member
Oct 16, 2002
73
34
End of the Earth
Hopefully they fix the issue with FCPX crashing on External Displays since High Sierra upgrade before this! FCPX dead in water.

As a High Sierra user using FCP on multiple monitors I’ve not crashed so i’d Look into your system. As someone at the event, I can attest to it being demoed on multiple displays including VR goggles while live edits made. Impressive!

And I’m loving the color corrections.
 

diegov12

macrumors member
Dec 29, 2015
93
184
Yes exactly, that is called post purchase upgrading, you upgrade after the initial purchase of the device, this was the idea of the cheesgrater, the macbook pro, with it's replaceable battery and RAM underneath..It was such a great idea, you bought 2GB RAM and then later, upgraded the RAM, or in the cheesgrater, changed everything, as it should.

Apple for some bizarre reason banned post purchase upgrading, the trash can mc pro was not upgradeable, then the mcbookpro was shown the same bizarre love, then the new 2017 imac and mac pro will be totally BTO...BTO is bad...

In the field you need power, both internal and external, you need to drive the laptops hard, editing, and this consumes power, in the old days, with FCP classic, you could switch out batteries, sure the app itself did not benefit from more RAM, being locked down to 2GB RAM, but email, other tasks, having more RAM helped...

Now in 2017 we have a device that is fixed to 8GB RAM [or 16GB] and fixed battery life, and if that runs out, you are **** out of luck...How in a decade is that progress..unless negative progress is what you desire....

No post purchase upgrading is the bullet to the heart of Apple, Tim Cock is the only one on the planet that can make the decision to end the ban of post purchase upgrading, the industries that use power mac hardware are simply mute and I wonder why...???

Am I missing something? Is post purchase upgrading bad???
Lol, do you even know what you're talking about?
The iMac can be upgraded nowadays, and so can the iMac pro.

Also, remember when powerbooks caught on fire for the stupid reason of having removable batterys?
 

ignatius345

macrumors 603
Aug 20, 2015
5,542
8,506
It may be too late for Apple to regain prominence, I know a lot of people in the industry who bailed to Adobe Premiere in the last 2 years. Our company just moved about 40 FCP seats to Premiere this year. Unfortunately the botched Final Cut X rollout created sticky negative preconceptions about the product that persisted long after Apple fixed and improved much of it.

Seems to be their MO these days: "boldly" strip a piece of software down to the bare bones and then re-add things as people complain about them. I used to rely on Keynote at a previous job, and had to hold onto the iWork '09 version for quite a while after the next version came out because they had broken some key features and functionality. It was (mostly) recovered over subsequent versions, but it was a rough transition.

I sometimes hear about people still carefully preserving their old Final Cut setups just because FCP X was so badly botched at release. (I personally am not a video editor so I actually found it vastly easier to deal with than the old version -- but I digress).
[doublepost=1509205289][/doublepost]
Lol, do you even know what you're talking about?
The iMac can be upgraded nowadays,

"Lol" the 5K iMac has user-accessible RAM slots. The smaller one has it soldered in, not at all upgradable. And good luck upgrading the hard drive on either one.

Also, remember when powerbooks caught on fire for the stupid reason of having removable batterys?
No, but I remember when a bad battery (which still happens, btw) didn't mean you had to have your whole laptop disassembled or replaced because it was easily replacable.
 
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manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,192
3,018
Yes exactly, that is called post purchase upgrading, you upgrade after the initial purchase of the device, this was the idea of the cheesgrater, the macbook pro, with it's replaceable battery and RAM underneath..It was such a great idea, you bought 2GB RAM and then later, upgraded the RAM, or in the cheesgrater, changed everything, as it should.
I'd say for about the last ten to fifteen years, most people upgraded the RAM in MBPs to the maximum right after purchase. I know, I did so. I also never replaced the battery in any of my laptops, and even if I were to, I can let Apple replace the battery in your MBP for a reasonable price. I actually had two batteries for my first laptop, I essentially never used the second battery.

Mostly the only thing people upgraded over time in laptops was internal storage, and even then largely only because larger or faster storage became available over time. I have always put the largest possible storage in my laptops at purchase for the last fifteen years or so.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,192
3,018
That is not the point, the point is, Tim Cock has banned post purchase upgrading, of all devices, from iPods, through iPads.
Except for a memory card on tablets, what other MP3 players and tablets are post-upgradable? Or while we are at it: What smartwatches and Bluetooth head/earphones allow post purchase upgrading?
[doublepost=1509213640][/doublepost]
No matter how good FCPX is or becomes Apple simply won’t regain mass videographer market share without a classic upgradable desktop, much less an all-in-one. Corporate buyers see the risk in proprietary locked-down everything.
So, outside the video editing market, are iMacs also a no-no for all other corporate buyers?
 

harriska2

macrumors 68000
Mar 16, 2011
1,843
966
Oregon
Seems to be their MO these days: "boldly" strip a piece of software down to the bare bones and then re-add things as people complain about them. I used to rely on Keynote at a previous job, and had to hold onto the iWork '09 version for quite a while after the next version came out because they had broken some key features and functionality. It was (mostly) recovered over subsequent versions, but it was a rough transition.

I sometimes hear about people still carefully preserving their old Final Cut setups just because FCP X was so badly botched at release. (I personally am not a video editor so I actually found it vastly easier to deal with than the old version -- but I digress).
[doublepost=1509205289][/doublepost]

"Lol" the 5K iMac has user-accessible RAM slots. The smaller one has it soldered in, not at all upgradable. And good luck upgrading the hard drive on either one.


No, but I remember when a bad battery (which still happens, btw) didn't mean you had to have your whole laptop disassembled or replaced because it was easily replacable.
Yep, we install iLife 09 for imovie that worked very well.
 
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petsounds

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2007
1,490
505
No matter how good FCPX is or becomes Apple simply won’t regain mass videographer market share without a classic upgradable desktop, much less an all-in-one.

Apple already announced that the Mac Pro is returning in 2018, so what...you want Apple to hold off updating FCPX until that comes out?
 
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ThatGuyInLa

macrumors 6502a
Oct 26, 2012
733
936
Longs, SC
I don't even think FCPs death spiral is due to PremPro solely. It's that there's no GOOD hardware to run the tools on. Everyone who is working in high-end edit suites run HP workstations. Because of the need for speed (and price) So PremPro it is.

This new iMac Pro might help a little, sure. Far too little and late.
 

maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Oct 22, 2009
660
991
No matter how good FCPX is or becomes Apple simply won’t regain mass videographer market share without a classic upgradable desktop, much less an all-in-one. Corporate buyers see the risk in proprietary locked-down everything. Certain Mac-centric niche studios may like the iMac Pro but I can’t see it reaching a wider audience than the trash-can Mac Pro.

At this point we should be thankful Apple is still supporting and developing FCPX. I see it as an attractive option for amateur and prosumer users such as the YouTube set. Maybe even indie film makers.

Nah I disagree...you got Hollywood films being edited on there. At least 3 currently that I'm aware of, plus Will Smith's Focus was cut on it, and so was Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot. And both filmmakers said they'll only use FCPX now.

I've convinced my last three feature clients to move the projects from Avid over to FCPX after demonstrating some key differences in the core that I knew they would appreciate...

I think what it comes down to is FCPX is just for an entirely new generation of filmmakers. Guys who are so stuck in Avid and Premiere "even though all three were made by the same guy", and can't remove their thought process on the old rules of editing will never like FCPX. I admit, they botched the launch, but 5 years in, it's literally the best editing software available. Premiere and Avid are still tools I use when a client wants it, but FCPX is by far my bias.
 

LiveM

macrumors 65816
Oct 30, 2015
1,268
614
Is it really too hard for a multi billion dollar company to make Final Cut Pro X app for iPad pro?
Considering how many years we've been waiting for something as essential as HEVC, it's clearly very difficult.
 

RickInHouston

macrumors 65816
May 14, 2014
1,457
2,210
Yes you are. I have the “trash can” and have upgraded it several times. I don’t understand all the hate for that machine. I now have 64 gb of RAM and a 1 tb SSD installed. I upgraded incrementally over the years as I needed to and it’s still working great. FCPX is a joy to use on it.

I see Premiere as a comfort zone for many people. Like so many Adobe products, it works the same old familiar way as it always has. FCPX is approaching editing from a different direction. It took me a while to get familiar with its workflow but now I can’t imagine going back to the old way.

How much, in total, have you now put into that trash can? Must be thousands!
 
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Applebot1

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2014
705
863
UK
Condsidering they went with it for so long I consider any change at this point to be very vast and to come with structural changes to the underlying platform...

Now you could be arguing for days how that may pan out, I think ultimately it's going to be dictated by practicability.

If the move for Mac to ARM were to happen it's going to see a uniform access to apps for both macOS in the form of macOS allowing access to "iOS apps" as a feature, later on both might get merged with each becoming optional "universal binary" options for the developer.

Now, personally I think the x86 platform offers way too much edge over ARM which is part of the RISC family of processors (where the hint is in the name - Reduced instruction set computer).

However, with the recent moves by Apple I'd be hardly surprised to seem them go this way.

Maybe as a co-processor?

Either way... That might be the time when they make a new name rise above the trusted X "brand".

Another guess from mine is that they might push any drawbacks to later releases...
Examples:
x86 Support will likely remain existent natively to the first couple of generations until "app support" advocates ARM as single-support architecture.

Apple might be wisely advised to heavily Incentivize devs to at least "also support" ARM during the first few releases. (It'll be extremely exciting to see Parallel's and VMWare's moves)

Once that's done they can claim the new gen of Macs has 9x% support of "Mac App Store apps" support (another case of tough **** for legacy lovers... there will be "legacy x86" support in the form of a "Rosetta"-style implementation)

I'll be very blunt with you guys, I don't want any of this to happen. I've long considered my future Mac putchases to be mostly home office-level purchases. Heavy [x86] tasks will likely mostly be relegated to Windows on a self-built machine because beefy raw computing and gaming doesn't necessarily require Mac these days for my tasks.... Hell even my Adobe alternative Affinity Photo and Designer launched for on Windows...

It's not the same, but as a semi-professional I need to keep my spendings in check. Maybe Mac Pro will remain x86-ARM hybrid, but I really fear that we might see a shift to ARM in Mac.

Maybe i3 to keep basic x86 compatibility for Bootcamp and easy Parallels and VMWare suppport as well as legacy and pro apps support on some level...

All just guesswork. Felt like doing a good old type down though. Looking for open discussion!

Glassed Silver:win

Notice / tl;dr: I'm drunk, should be light minded, still came to MR and felt inspired to share my thought about the platform / ecosystem that re-ignited a new joy in computing in me over 10 years ago. I really love Mac, iOS (as limited as it may be... Maybe one day we get the optimal mix of Android's openness and iOS's privacy) and anything else Apple [that they still offer... ugh]
Found your points interesting. I think about the future of X86 and wouldn’t surprise me if at some point we will see a unification of using the ‘A’ series chips across the board. As we know Apple historically do like RISC based processors.
 
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