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Final Cut Studio Goes Universal
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Good, that makes me feel a little better. I was beginning to think I was loosing my mind... wait... never mind, that happened while ago.bousozoku said:
digitalbiker said:
What the heck is this? If you have the old versions, you don't necessarily NEED the new one. Nobody's forcing an upgrade. If you DO need it, they should be able to charge you exactly the price you will pay. That is just how capitalism and trade between responsible people works...if you think you need your plumbing filtered, Joe the Plumber will work it for you...for a fee you will pay. If you want the newest version of FC software, get a job and pay for it. Apple has no need to "establish the market," and if you are correct in saying MS sold xbox's at a loss to do such, honestly, that's mostly a problem of their overshooting the price consumers are willing to pay. $700 xbox, for example, would not sell all that great, so compromise by selling it cheaper and trying to make it up later with other sales (games etc). Doesn't sound like all that smart a business. (If MS had hit the xbox cost just right, they'd have more profit, to put it another way.)
Seriously, what were you expecting? Everyone gets a free Intel Mac and then free upgrades of software BASED ON NEED. From those according to ability to those according to need.... Pathetic. "Apple can't have it both ways!"? To hell with that nonsense. If Apple can't make its product pricing decisions, instead tailoring to your kind based on your "need," it'd go bankrupt pretty quick. "Either it is easy and should be supplied free"...what the hell? Making FCS compatible with Intel obviously wasn't a simple matter of checking the box, as it was for some software. Some, not all- get used to it. And how easy/hard it is for Apple to do has no bearing on their ability to charge the price you will pay.
If you have a job, you'd understand what I'm saying. If you sold your product for free because you feel it's your public duty to supply it, you will soon no longer be able to supply it. If your employer wants you to work for free because he/she needs your service, as long as your employer feels it is "easy" for you, you'll be without a paycheck.
"At the drop of a hat"? Hardly. "8 billion dollars in the bank"? That is NOT YOUR MONEY, not yours to decide that they should operate at a loss for a while for the good of the public. I'll tell you what, if everything worked like that, there would soon be no public of which to speak.
It's 50 bucks for an upgrade, unless you have older versions, which means you would have paid as much anyway (your original purchase is for the software as is, not for unlimited free upgrades and the moon, if you ask for it). 50 bucks is small fry compared to 1300 to purchase it from scratch. 50 bucks is 50 bucks...it won't buy you 3 grams of gold. And what do you do? You start whining about how Apple's employees should work for free and for your "needs."
(L) said:
You seem to miss the point completely. I am not saying Apple should supply software for free because of public duty or need.
I am saying that if you already own a PPC version of Apple's software (whatever it is) and Apple then creates a UB version of the same software. In otherwords, Apple makes no changes to the fuctionality, just a UB version, then Apple should provide it to the registered users of that software, who have bought a new intel mac.
Why not? The user benefits by getting a version that is native to intel. Apple benefits by by making intel hardware purchases more attractive to current PPC users, and Apple earns a lot of goodwill.
What does it cost Apple? A couple of CD's or DVD's, postage (something AOL puts out 3 times a year for promtional purposes to almost everyone in the US) and the recompile time to convert from PPC to UB.
Sorry if it get's your panties in a bind. I don't see what the big deal is. I am not saying Apple should give away their software to all users. I am saying that if you own the PPC version and Apple generates a UB version that is not an upgrade of the software, then they should allow those registered users free UB versions if they need it for a new intel mac.
You don't think the intel transition came at the drop of a hat? There wasn't one person anywhere who thought that Apple would go intel at the June WWDC.
milo said:
You're right! I didn't even realize it was Universal. I had ordered it for the new versions of the software and I didn't even pay attention to if it was universal or not.
Chupa Chupa said:
i was just going to say that... please everyone wait until an announcement at NAB before you make a purchasing decision on FCS
Most likely, FCS 2 (Final Cut 6, Motion 3, DVDSP 5, Soundrack Pro 2, Compressor 3, etc) will support Canon 24f & HDV 720p24. They'll demo it at NAB for availability by the summer.ropbo said:
Apple has been consistent for the past five years in demonstrating new versions of Final Cut Pro at NAB. FCP 3 was in 2002. FCP 4 was in 2003. FCP HD (4.5) was in 2004. FCP 5 was in 2005. Of course 4.5 was a free upgrade from 4. So who knows, if we're lucky FCP 5.5 will include those special Canon and JVC formats, just as 4.5 added Panasonic's DVCProHD and (I think) the DVX100's 24p DV.
I guess it's easier to be a crybaby on an online forum than otherwise.QCassidy352 said:
So you've exhausted all the features of the existing applications? (just kidding)ipacmm said:
Dude, third party developers had a LOT of lead time. Apple even built Pentium-powered Power Macs for developers to do their thing. It was no surprise to developers that the Intel transition was happening.digitalbiker said:
Caveat emptor, man. Besides that, a lot of professionals actually prefer sticking to an "older" version of Final Cut for a few months, and won't move their production to the current one until the major bugs have been worked out. No dot-0 release of Final Cut Pro has ever been usable in a production environment, at least going back to 3.0.Chupa Chupa said:
Well, not if you consider what I just said above.boombashi said:
My Silicon Valley sources (as in people I know and not rumor websites) saw it coming way before Apple made the official announcement.digitalbiker said:
Rod Rod said:
The third party developers were told in June. No advanced announcement to anyone about the intel transition. The Pentium-powered Power-Macs were supplied after the announcement. Now since the announcement, the third party deveolpers have had time to produce UB versions of software but for some, like Adobe, it didn't make sense to work on a UB version of their current CS2 because the development of CS3 was already underway.
Oh yeah, Right! After the fact you profess knowing these things. Apple kept the Intel transition secret even within their own ranks. Many Apple engineers were shocked about the intel announcement. IBM was floored. But of course you and your inside sources knew. RIGHT
this new price for FCS 5.1 is really damn *****. £599. my uni's TV station just got an Alumni grant for £428.88 - the price of FCS 5.0, expecting it would be pretty much the same. and we're now screwed because we can't spend it on anything else and don't have a spare £180 odd lying around.
anyone rekon there's any chance of getting the student discounted FCS 5.0 somewhere around the UK, for the £428.88, so we can just order the crossgrade a little later?
anyone rekon there's any chance of getting the student discounted FCS 5.0 somewhere around the UK, for the £428.88, so we can just order the crossgrade a little later?
amac4me said:
MacBook Pro? Maybe. But it's highly unlikely you will see a Professional trade in their G5 Quad to sit in front of an iMac. Especially when it's doubtful they will see a speed increase. Not that there is anything wrong with iMacs, I just don't see them as Professional machines. More like prosumer since they have limited capabilities for upgrading. Also, most serious professional are reluctant to jump on the newest technology unless they can justify the cost and potential downtime from transitional problems. I can see them buying a MacBook pro but only as a secondary machine to use on location or on the road.
It was June 6, 2005, in fact. So it's been almost 10 months. Ten months is a long time.digitalbiker said:
Your point was that nobody knew, and my point is that there were many who did. It wasn't a top secret classified high level security clearance thing, in that engineers at other companies (such as Intel) knew about it. Those engineers have friends, and so do I, and some of them know each other.digitalbiker said:Oh yeah, Right! After the fact you profess knowing these things. Apple kept the Intel transition secret even within their own ranks. Many Apple engineers were shocked about the intel announcement. IBM was floored. But of course you and your inside sources knew. RIGHT
IBM wasn't floored; they knew they were taking a risk with Apple as far as asking for development cost sharing, and sometimes when you play chicken you run off the cliff. IBM was feigning surprise for public consumption, in a face-saving maneuver. The writing was already on the wall.
Maybe you don't remember the 3GHz G5 prediction from 2003, which was supposed to happen sometime in 2004. Well, the Intel transition announcement came in the middle of 2005 and IBM could not have been surprised.
To further debunk your idea that the transition announcement completely shocked every third party developer, consider the fact that the CEO of Adobe had advance knowledge of it, as did Microsoft's Mac Business Unit and Wolfram Research. Adobe's CEO, Microsoft's Roz Ho and Wolfram Research officials participated in the WWDC 2005 keynote presentation.
Apple Press Release, June 6, 2005
CNET ran an article three days before WWDC 2005, and that article cited an earlier report in the Wall Street Journal to the same effect but the CNET article had other sources.
CNET article, June 3, 2005
Below is a slide shown at WWDC 2003:
Attachments
digitalbiker said:
iWork '06 is universal. If yours says PPC in get info then you've got a problem. As with iLife '06 it has existed only as Universal when it was released at MWSF.
bigandy said:this new price for FCS 5.1 is really damn *****. £599. my uni's TV station just got an Alumni grant for £428.88 - the price of FCS 5.0, expecting it would be pretty much the same. and we're now screwed because we can't spend it on anything else and don't have a spare £180 odd lying around.
anyone rekon there's any chance of getting the student discounted FCS 5.0 somewhere around the UK, for the £428.88, so we can just order the crossgrade a little later?
You could try here: http://www.krcs.co.uk/krcsedsoft.html
A google search for final cut studio and that price you gave produced that one. There were others on the list.
bigandy said:this new price for FCS 5.1 is really damn *****. £599. my uni's TV station just got an Alumni grant for £428.88 - the price of FCS 5.0, expecting it would be pretty much the same. and we're now screwed because we can't spend it on anything else and don't have a spare £180 odd lying around.
anyone rekon there's any chance of getting the student discounted FCS 5.0 somewhere around the UK, for the £428.88, so we can just order the crossgrade a little later?
I don't know if this is allowed but have you considered picking up an older version on ebay or something? The upgrade deal gives you a wide range of options. If you can get a good deal on one of these, maybe the upgrade will fit your budget?
Upgrade prices:
Final Cut Pro 5 £69
Final Cut Pro 4, HD (4.5) £139
Motion 2 £139
Soundtrack Pro £139
DVD Studio Pro 4 £139
Production Suite £139
For example: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Final-Cut-Pro...Z9704562121QQcategoryZ189QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Good luck!
bigandy said:this new price for FCS 5.1 is really damn *****. £599. my uni's TV station just got an Alumni grant for £428.88 - the price of FCS 5.0, expecting it would be pretty much the same. and we're now screwed because we can't spend it on anything else and don't have a spare £180 odd lying around.
anyone rekon there's any chance of getting the student discounted FCS 5.0 somewhere around the UK, for the £428.88, so we can just order the crossgrade a little later?
I don't know how you're seeing £599, but the Apple Store still shows £428.88 when accessed through my Uni's LAN. Maybe you're just seeing the standard educational discount. Try going accessing the site while on campus or phoning.
Just installed.. runs ok..
Well it installed (Universal that is) on a Macbook P and seems to be running nicely.
Its not as fast as the Quad .. thankfully other wise I would have been cheesed off.. but it does seem to be quicker at finder type actions.. i.e. importing etc.
So for far so good.. the only down size is ts HUGE ! If I installed all the media then it was asking for about 32GB ! I managed to get it down to about 8.
Well it installed (Universal that is) on a Macbook P and seems to be running nicely.
Its not as fast as the Quad .. thankfully other wise I would have been cheesed off.. but it does seem to be quicker at finder type actions.. i.e. importing etc.
So for far so good.. the only down size is ts HUGE ! If I installed all the media then it was asking for about 32GB ! I managed to get it down to about 8.
No. It simply means that the suite is now Universal. Most plans for the next year will be revealed Sunday April 23rd in Las Vegas. Patience. This is only the first shoe to drop. I would not exercise my FCS upgrade franchise until as far later in the year as I can stand. But that may not be much longer than I can get a 17" MacBook Pro with ExpressCard/54.ropbo said:
We have until December 20 to send in our FCP 4 or 4.5 DVDs for this once in a lifetime upgrade bargain. It's like Apple's present to us for putting up with this PPC to Intel transition. I won't be buying the Intel Quad this Fall. I'll be waiting for the 8 core pair of Kentsfields early next year with Leopard and iLife '07 on board. What I'm hoping for is that FCS will be getting more and more multiprocessor (Quad and more) optimized over this next year.
FCP 4 or 4.5 Academic is included in the $199 Upgrade to FCS Universal offer. If you wait to exercise your option, you may get FCS 6 soon after NAB. Note that there is no FCS version number associated with this upgrade offer that is good until December 20, 2006.Doctor Q said:
Here's a disappointment. The upgrade package doesn't include manuals, even if you're going from one app to the full suite. I guess you're stuck with PDF or have to shell out $20 and buy them?
But it looks like the duo mini will run Motion. There's a compatibility app you can download and run from their system requirements page that will tell you if motion will run, and the mini duo passes. They've also updated the FCS web pages to the current version.
Don't forget the mini. There are plenty of folks at different levels using this software, having these UB takes away one more excuse not to go intel. Pros on a budget have some great intel boxes to choose from, and pros with deep pockets can get intel boxes as secondary machines while they wait for intel towers and remaining apps to ship.
What did the upgrade come with, did it have full manuals? What did you upgrade from?
But it looks like the duo mini will run Motion. There's a compatibility app you can download and run from their system requirements page that will tell you if motion will run, and the mini duo passes. They've also updated the FCS web pages to the current version.
THX1139 said:
Don't forget the mini. There are plenty of folks at different levels using this software, having these UB takes away one more excuse not to go intel. Pros on a budget have some great intel boxes to choose from, and pros with deep pockets can get intel boxes as secondary machines while they wait for intel towers and remaining apps to ship.
pgre said:
What did the upgrade come with, did it have full manuals? What did you upgrade from?
Absolutely. The April 23 Apple Press Event at NAB will tell us a lot more. I feel certain that by waiting 'til later in the year we will get a much better version of FCStudio. Notice no version of FCS is mentioned in the offer? There's a reason for that. I think it is very unwise to have pre-ordered or to order the upgrade until after April 23.Chupa Chupa said:
Who Told You No Manuals? I've Never Done An Upgrade That Didn't Include Manuals. What makes you say that?milo said:
Multimedia said:Who Told You No Manuals? I've Never Done An Upgrade That Didn't Include Manuals. What makes you say that?
On the apple discussion boards, a couple people have received it.
"Just the disks, license agreement and install guide in a jiffy bag." This guy upgraded from STP.
Good news is, people who have installed it already are saying it absolutely screams on intel hardware.
All Present Who Are Going To Sell Their Quad To Buy An iMac Please Leave The Room
ROTFLMAO . You took the words out of my mouth. The Quad RULES. iMacs for FCS?? Are you insane? We're not even going to buy Woodcrest Quads when 8-core pairs of Kentsfields are less than a year away from NOW with Leopard and iLife '07 on board.
Sure we may plan on maybe buying a 17" ExpressCard/54 Merom MacBook Pro this Fall as a secondary computer. But NO WAY will I nor anyone else here who is serious be giving up our PPC Quads for Rev A Woodcrest pairs. We have enough power to get us to 8 cores with Leopard in a year - thank you very much.
amac4me said:
Speaking for everyoneTHX1139 said:
ROTFLMAO . You took the words out of my mouth. The Quad RULES. iMacs for FCS?? Are you insane? We're not even going to buy Woodcrest Quads when 8-core pairs of Kentsfields are less than a year away from NOW with Leopard and iLife '07 on board.Sure we may plan on maybe buying a 17" ExpressCard/54 Merom MacBook Pro this Fall as a secondary computer. But NO WAY will I nor anyone else here who is serious be giving up our PPC Quads for Rev A Woodcrest pairs. We have enough power to get us to 8 cores with Leopard in a year - thank you very much.
Sorry, but *I* won't defend Apple here either....
I know quite a few people who were "put off" by Apple's announcement that we'd have to pay for these universal binary updates to their pro apps. It's not about "having a job" or "demanding that Apple's developers work for free" or any of that nonsense. It's about expecting a certain basic level of support for software you recently shelled out many hundreds (or quite possibly well over $1000) for! As others said, these fees really only punish the "early adopters" of Apple's new technologies. The people who wait around for a year before upgrading anything will just end up with the universal binary support already in whatever they purchase. But Apple should be encouraging the folks who believe in their products and like them enough to buy the new ones as soon as they're released (or even pre-ordered months in advance, as many MacBook Pro purchasers did!).
The universal binary update is a little bit different than just your typical "point release" update that adds a few new features, fixes a few bugs, etc. If you have "the old versions" of any of these "pro apps" and you just spent $'s on an Intel-based Mac, you essentially have code that's not even designed to run properly on the new machine. Professional users are obviously not going to feel like it's "perfectly ok" to run their application under emulation, taking a big performance hit - on a *brand new* machine that Apple just touted as being 2x-4x FASTER than what they had before.
I know quite a few people who were "put off" by Apple's announcement that we'd have to pay for these universal binary updates to their pro apps. It's not about "having a job" or "demanding that Apple's developers work for free" or any of that nonsense. It's about expecting a certain basic level of support for software you recently shelled out many hundreds (or quite possibly well over $1000) for! As others said, these fees really only punish the "early adopters" of Apple's new technologies. The people who wait around for a year before upgrading anything will just end up with the universal binary support already in whatever they purchase. But Apple should be encouraging the folks who believe in their products and like them enough to buy the new ones as soon as they're released (or even pre-ordered months in advance, as many MacBook Pro purchasers did!).
The universal binary update is a little bit different than just your typical "point release" update that adds a few new features, fixes a few bugs, etc. If you have "the old versions" of any of these "pro apps" and you just spent $'s on an Intel-based Mac, you essentially have code that's not even designed to run properly on the new machine. Professional users are obviously not going to feel like it's "perfectly ok" to run their application under emulation, taking a big performance hit - on a *brand new* machine that Apple just touted as being 2x-4x FASTER than what they had before.
(L) said: