Finder of Lost Next-Generation iPhone Identified

[TheAshMan]

It was stolen property

The bottom line with this whole story is that the property was STOLEN and I hope all involved get prosecuted. It doesn't matter whether he "found" it or not, he TOOK it which is stealing it. If you find a bike in a bar, ride off with it and sell it to someone, that is a crime. If you find a purse sitting in a bar and walk off with it and do anything other than turn it over to a proper authority or contact the owner, to me that is a crime. The fact that this was secret intellectual property of a business and it's exposure could have a detrimental effect on the company only adds to the seriousness of the crime because the damage to the owner can be far greater than the cost of the device itself. I don't care what company, if it was an HP device, or say it was a new car model from GM, this act should be punished. Gizmodo is liable too. The minute they paid this idiot and took the phone. It would be different if they just paid him to look at and photograph it without taking possession. The fact is they took possession and I think they are liable. I don't see any freedom of the press issue here, no one prevented anyone from reporting on anything. The authorities are looking into what is clearly a crime.

 

[marcfogel]

So what if they were security guards? The guy was in possession of STOLEN property. What, you think that Apple should send their receptionist? For crying out loud, they're security guards not the Gestapo. Sending their security guards to obtain their confidential property is absolutely appropriate under the circumstances.

If Brian Hogan felt scared and intimidated, well he should! Furthermore, if a little intimidated is all he felt, he should have considered himself lucky because it would have been better than being charged with a crime and going to jail. HE is responsible for them showing up on his doorstep in the first place!

The smart thing to, would have been to get it back to Apple as fast as he possibly could. You don't have to be a genius to know that this has the potential to end very badly.

If Apple called the police, you'd be complaining that Apple was acting too heavy-handed. Why didn't they just use the GPS and send someone over to get it. Why involve the police in all this and destroy the kid's life, after all he's only 21!

I disagree. Apple should have let the police handle it from the beginning.

Please don't think I am condoning what Hogan or Gizmodo did.

 

[Penguissimo]

What constitutes a reasonable effort?

Not this:

A friend of Hogan’s then offered to call Apple Care on Hogan’s behalf, according to Hogan’s lawyer. That apparently was the extent of Hogan’s efforts to return the phone.

 

[Bilbo63]

AshMan... Good post. I totally agree.

 

[TheAshMan]

Dumbest question ever. It's theft when it's not yours.

If you pick it up then it's your responsibility to find the owner otherwise just leave it there.

I completely agree. This clown TOOK this property (the phone) from someone else's property (the bar). If it was found on his property, that would be a little different, but even then you have a responsibility to turn it back in. To me this is very black and white. This idiot took someone else's property and tried to make a lot of money from it. Stealing, pure and simple.

 

[Bilbo63]

I disagree. Apple should have let the police handle it from the beginning.

Please don't think I am condoning what Hogan or Gizmodo did.

Okay, fair-enough.

I happen to feel that it was "nicer" on Apple's part to try to get the thing back "without" involving the police and getting the kid in any more trouble.

I have a 20 year old son, and if he did what Brian Hogan did, I'd be thankful that Apple chose that route rather than involving the authorities... And if it put a good scare into my son, then so be it. He needed to realize that he really screwed up and that he got off lucky.

 

[pdjudd]

Yes I did.

Then why did you state elements that were not mentioned in the original article? Wired's article made no mention to security guards and made no mention to the repetitiveness intimidation and you completely ignored the fact that they did nothing more than ask to come in.

 

[Anuba]

Okay, fair-enough.

I happen to feel that it was "nicer" on Apple's part to try to get the thing back "without" involving the police and getting the kid in any more trouble.

They didn't do it out of kindness or consideration, they simply wanted to minimize the amount of prying eyes, including police officers.

 

[Bilbo63]

They didn't do it out of kindness or consideration, they simply wanted to minimize the amount of prying eyes, including police officers.

Okay, you cannot possibly know that. I have no doubt that they would prefer that all of this stayed quiet, any company would. Whatever the reason, this still would have been the best possible way out for Mr. Hogan, wouldn't you agree?

Apple had no choice, they had to do SOMETHING. Mr. Hogan had all kinds of opportunities to do the right thing and wouldn't. He's in the crap, he's in, because of his own foolish greed.

 

[Anuba]

Okay, you cannot possibly know that.

Oh, we have to "know" it? Like you "knew" they did it to be nice and not involve the police?

We offered alternate explanations, both based on mere speculation. Nearly ALL of this is speculation at this point, so I don't appreciate anyone suddenly raising the bar and demanding facts.

 

[Bilbo63]

Oh, we have to "know" it? Like you "knew" they did it to be nice and not involve the police?

We offered alternate explanations, both based on mere speculation. Nearly ALL of this is speculation at this point, so I don't appreciate anyone suddenly raising the bar and demanding facts.

I said it was the "nicer" thing to do. I would have considered that a "nicer" way to get of that jam, if I was Hogan. Whether Apple actually did it to be nice is another story. I am quite sure they likely weren't. He did after all have their stolen property and they were likely pissed.

If a neighbourhood kid took my son's bike, rather than call the cops, I'd walk over to his house and ask for it back and speak to the parents. Now, that's just me, I know that others would go directly to the police and that's a perfectly reasonable option too.

Now if the kid stole the bike again... I go to the cops.

That's all irrelevant anyway. I still say the way Apple "tried" to handle this, would likely have been best for everyone concerned.

 

[bobob]

So I can steal a car a long as it isn't a prototype and as long as I don't open the glovebox to find out the name of the owner. Good!

Only if it is left on a bar stool. What a ridiculous analogy!

Haha, you're funny! The car was left on a bar stool. Hi - larious.

But for the sake of the analogy, let's just for a moment imagine that the car was left in a parking lot.

 

[Cartaphilus]

An "eye for an eye" precedes the Mosaic Code by a few centuries, showing up in the Code of Hammurabi.

Yes, you're right.

As I'm sure you know, there are significant differences between the lex talionis as the concept appears in the Code of Hammurabi, and as it appears in the Pentateuch. The Babylonians applied "eye for an eye" literally (which made punishing blind eye gougers problematic, I suppose), while, at least according to some scholars, the Hebraic version required only proportionate compensation or retribution, in money or chattels. It's pretty well-accepted that the Code dates to 1790 B.C. or so, but the date for the origin of the law ultimately appearing in the written Biblical texts seems to be uncertain. The civilization of Ur, the reputed origin of Abraham, followed the lex talionis, and it may have been a tradition of the Hebrews long before the Egyptian captivity, which itself, as well as the Exodus, are notoriously difficult to verify, let alone date.

In any case, my point was that "eye for an eye", rather than being viewed as a vindictive and barbaric precept, was actually a more humane approach than that of the systems of penalties and compensation that generally preceded it.

Thanks for reminding me of the chronology.

 

[quik]

Too much fanboys here...

Come on, the real problem is in fact the engineer from Apple who simply lost it. That story is only a great way for Apple to learn to keep all those "prototypes" at the campus and not in the hands of a teenager going to bars on friday night.

I know it's kinda sad for Apple to get their new iPhone on the wild while they keep insisting on keeping everything secret, but it's their fault and I guess they'll change their security procedures involving prototypes.

The poor guy simply found it, didn't knew what it really was (because let's be honest, almost everybody isn't as tech-savvy as we are on this forum) and sold it to Gizmodo who probably didn't really said to him what it really was. 5000K$ for a iPhone 4G? Let's be honest, the guy had absolutely no idea what it really was, because if he wanted to do some cash, he would have been able to sell it at 4 or 5 times the price.

Give him a break, and Apple should stop BS'ing with all those stories recently. It's getting freaking annoying.

 

[Bilbo63]

Haha, you're funny! The car was left on a bar stool. Hi - larious.

But for the sake of the analogy, let's just for a moment imagine that the car was left in a parking lot.

Have you ever heard of HotWheels? Heh Heh... That brings me back!

 

[Cartaphilus]

Time will tell if the facts are made up.

If you guess at what might have happened, without any actual knowledge or evidence of what happened, and it later turns out that you guessed correctly, does that mean that your guess was not made up?

 

[Bilbo63]

Too much fanboys here...

Come on, the real problem is in fact the engineer from Apple who simply lost it. That story is only a great way for Apple to learn to keep all those "prototypes" at the campus and not in the hands of a teenager going to bars on friday night.

I know it's kinda sad for Apple to get their new iPhone on the wild while they keep insisting on keeping everything secret, but it's their fault and I guess they'll change their security procedures involving prototypes.

The poor guy simply found it, didn't knew what it really was (because let's be honest, almost everybody isn't as tech-savvy as we are on this forum) and sold it to Gizmodo who probably didn't really said to him what it really was. 5000K$ for a iPhone 4G? Let's be honest, the guy had absolutely no idea what it really was, because if he wanted to do some cash, he would have been able to sell it at 4 or 5 times the price.

Give him a break, and Apple should stop BS'ing with all those stories recently. It's getting freaking annoying.

This isn't Apple's fault we are all discussing this and Mr. Hogan isn't a "poor guy". He's a thief who who had an opportunity to get out of the jam that he put himself in and wasn't smart enough to take it.

A lot of people made mistakes here beginning with the engineer. Apple was simply trying to get their property back as quietly as possible.

Also, Apple isn't BS'ing with these stories. Where the heck is that coming from? Thanks to Gizmodo, this is now "news" and we are all discussing the news.

For crying out loud Apple had to do something! No company wants people stealing their confidential stuff.

 

[marcfogel]

If you guess at what might have happened, without any actual knowledge or evidence of what happened, and it later turns out that you guessed correctly, does that mean that your guess was not made up?

Correct that would mean my guess is not made up.

Wait, I am not a fanboy so that means my guess would have been made up.

 

[Cartaphilus]

Too much fanboys here...

Come on, the real problem is in fact the engineer from Apple who simply lost it. That story is only a great way for Apple to learn to keep all those "prototypes" at the campus and not in the hands of a teenager going to bars on friday night.

I know it's kinda sad for Apple to get their new iPhone on the wild while they keep insisting on keeping everything secret, but it's their fault and I guess they'll change their security procedures involving prototypes.

The poor guy simply found it, didn't knew what it really was (because let's be honest, almost everybody isn't as tech-savvy as we are on this forum) and sold it to Gizmodo who probably didn't really said to him what it really was. 5000K$ for a iPhone 4G? Let's be honest, the guy had absolutely no idea what it really was, because if he wanted to do some cash, he would have been able to sell it at 4 or 5 times the price.

Give him a break, and Apple should stop BS'ing with all those stories recently. It's getting freaking annoying.

I refer the gentleman to FAQ #4.

 

[Cartaphilus]

Correct that would mean my guess is not made up.

Wait, I am not a fanboy so that means my guess would have been made up.

Just so we're clear.

 

[marcfogel]

Imagine this.

One of Microsoft's prototypes goes missing. They track it to someones home and then send "representatives" over to ask to do a search in order to retrieve.

I wonder how many of you would change your tune.
I wonder how many of you would admit changing your tune.

 

[quik]

This isn't Apple's fault we are all discussing this and Mr. Hogan isn't a "poor guy". He's a thief who who had an opportunity to get out of the jam that he put himself in and wasn't smart enough to take it.

A lot of people made mistakes here beginning with the engineer. Apple was simply trying to get their property back as quietly as possible.

Also, Apple isn't BS'ing with these stories. Where the heck is that coming from? Thanks to Gizmodo, this is now "news" and we are all discussing the news.

For crying out loud Apple had to do something! No company wants people stealing their confidential stuff.

The guy clearly had not clue it was confidential.

And the fact that this is "confidential" or not is the same thing by the law. Do you expect someone who finds a 4yo Motorola phone in a bar to go in prison ?

 

[Cartaphilus]

The guy clearly had not clue it was confidential.

And the fact that this is "confidential" or not is the same thing by the law. Do you expect someone who finds a 4yo Motorola phone in a bar to go in prison ?

If the owner's business card is attached to it and the finder decides not to contact the owner but to sell the phone for $10, what do you think should happen?

 

[quik]

If the owner's business card is attached to it and the finder decides not to contact the owner but to sell the phone for $10, what do you think should happen?

Where did you see that there were a name on the iPhone ?

If you could point me to the article, because I don't remember seeing that there was the name of the engineer somewhere on the phone.

Anyway, everyone knows the guy won't go to prison. The damage has already been done and Apple will probably be more secretive next time with their prototypes, which is a good thing. This publicity-stunt related to this iPhone is a good thing for Apple, but the guy going to prison because of this won't be a good one though. Trust me, Apple PR guys will tell to drop charges.

 

[Bilbo63]

Imagine this.

One of Microsoft's prototypes goes missing. They track it to someones home and then send "representatives" over to ask to do a search in order to retrieve.

I wonder how many of you would change your tune.
I wonder how many of you would admit changing your tune.

I cannot speak for everyone, but I've said all along that if it was LG, Motorola or whoever, it's still wrong to keep what doesn't belong to you and then go sell it.

I never mention Microsoft because unless I'm mistaken, they don't actually make phones do they? I do think that they are working on some and if this happened to them, it would still be wrong. Would it bother me as much? Probably not, because I don't carry a Microsoft phone.