I don't think anyone posting here is a lawyer or judge with any influence in this case, so honestly who cares? No point in debating this, it's for the court to decide.
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Finder of Lost Next-Generation iPhone Identified
- Thread starter sravana
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I would pay a tidy sum for a dedicated pay cable channel, this is all very entertaining. We are putting together a cast of characters that puts Kato Kaelin to shame. The bonus here is that no one died, so we do not have to feel bad watching it all unfold. Sure some peoples lives may get jacked up, but anyone that could happen to in this case, certainly had an opportunity to prevent it from happening.
In short, this is good wholesome entertainment.
Grey Powell
Brian J. Hogan
Sage Wallower
Jason Chen
Nick Dent
Gaby "COO" Darbyshire
Stephen "Chief Deputy District Attorney" Wagstaffe
also Starring Steve Jobs
Add in a whole host of lawyers that are just starting to trickle in..It is OJ without the blood. Perfect for the Internet
Just "Sage Wallower" and "DDA Wagstaffe" are enough to make me wonder if some reality show scriptwriter didn't orchestrate this whole thing!
There's a difference between posting info about the device and buying/selling stolen property.... Notice how Engadget is not in any trouble, even though they posted info about the prototype-iPhone as well. That's because they werent dumb enough to buy the device.
He sold the phone to them. What exactly would that be if not "moving stolen goods"?
What, he has no common sense? It doesn't take a rocket-science to know what to do when you find property that does not belong to you. Hell, he even knew the name of the person who lost the phone! Or he could have invested 5 minutes of his time and called the police about the device.
Sure. But you do not have the right to sell stolen goods. And that's what this genius did.
He sold goods that did not belong to him.
Yeah yeah, he's such a good boy. Except for the trafficking in stolen goods part....
This is like when my wife joined "DAM". You know, "Mothers Against Dyslexia".
As you well knew all along, smarty-mouth, it is UTSA, the Uniform Trade Secrets Act, which, interestingly, is not all that uniform. California has a fairly eccentric version of it. But what can you expect from a state where you can't get a hamburger without somebody sticking bean sprouts on it.
Let me spare your fingers additional treks: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=03001-04000&file=3426-3426.11
It's a fine question. If he didn't know how to find the owner, or what the device was and assumed he had an iPhone in his hand, all he needed to do to avoid becoming charged with theft was to do any one of the following:
a) not take the phone off the stool;
b) given the phone to the bar's manager;
c) called the sheriff's department (police), and asked them for advice and followed it;
d) taken the phone home, after first leaving his name and contact information with the bar manager.
There are plenty more, but I think those are the most natural. Now, that's my legal answer; in reality, had he just forgotten it in his sock drawer, I'm sure he never would have been charged, even if he were found out. Where this young man crossed the line was in profiting from something that wasn't his, and especially after having done next to nothing meaningful to locate the owner.
Nothing will happen to him if the investigation shows he acted ethically, even if there was a technical failure to follow the law. It's only if the investigators conclude that he was more interested in benefitting himself than in getting the phone back to its owner that they will recommend prosecution.
Dunno if this has been mentioned before, but in many countries you can legally demand a finder's reward based on the value of the found item.
If this is the case in California, and given that the a prototype of that kind, at this time, may have a value of at least a few hundred thousand of dollars, that guy might have gotten more than the $ 5000 - without even breaking the law a bit?
If this is the case in California, and given that the a prototype of that kind, at this time, may have a value of at least a few hundred thousand of dollars, that guy might have gotten more than the $ 5000 - without even breaking the law a bit?
I strongly feel that he should have simply returned the phone to Apple. If he doesn't get criminal charges I am going to be very, very upset. What he did was childish, immature, illegal, immoral, and just wrong. Why would he sell it for $5000? Even if he had been Completely in the zone up till then, he could've figured out that if they were willing to pay $5000 for it, that he probably shouldn't sell it.
It's not Because he's Christian that he did this obviously, but it just shows that religion does nothing to eliminate such behaviors.
It's not Because he's Christian that he did this obviously, but it just shows that religion does nothing to eliminate such behaviors.
Here it's called "extortion". Just out of curiosity, do you actually know of any country where this is the law? Or, is this just your idea of how the world works?
Edit: I apologize if my last sentence sounded a bit harsh, but I have been reading so many posts by people with (IMO) a warped sense of property rights and respect of individual rights. Some, a small portion, come from different countries, where there is a different world view. I wasn't aware of how some EU countries view personal property rights; again, apologies. However, this is America, and I would expect from those the same respect they would like from us. We do have a different view of personal rights. I think that had something to do with writing our own constitution...
To those who were brought up here - well, as has been said many times in this forum: you need to reflect on what is right and wrong, and what is just. Also, said many times here: "I wasn't brought up that way." We have many laws upholding personal rights over those who would take advantage of a loss. They are becoming painfully clear to those involved with this case.
The turnaround is hilarious. Jason Chen was not given the benefit of the doubt at all, even though gawker paid for the device. This guy 'found' the device and sold it to the highest bidder.
Seriously double standards by a lot of you here. Let him off, he's a dumb naive kid. How about hell to the no. He found a phone and sold it for $5000. There's one type of crime that leads to easy sentencing, it's called white collar crime. You could steal billions in a ponzi scheme but you'll never serve a day in a REAL PRISON. Then there's actual prison, where you get butt raped on a daily basis. Which would serve as a real deterrent to white folk who think they are above the law.
Seriously double standards by a lot of you here. Let him off, he's a dumb naive kid. How about hell to the no. He found a phone and sold it for $5000. There's one type of crime that leads to easy sentencing, it's called white collar crime. You could steal billions in a ponzi scheme but you'll never serve a day in a REAL PRISON. Then there's actual prison, where you get butt raped on a daily basis. Which would serve as a real deterrent to white folk who think they are above the law.
Dumbest question ever. It's theft when it's not yours.
If you pick it up then it's your responsibility to find the owner otherwise just leave it there.
Germany. See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finderlohn.
5% of the value up to 500€ + 3% of the value above 500€ means about 15,000€ if the value of the prototype was considered to be 500,000€.
Ahhh, i can't resist...
Add to that, maybe, just maybe, others ideas of how the world works ain't so bad at all in comparison to yours.
Add to that, maybe, just maybe, others ideas of how the world works ain't so bad at all in comparison to yours.
In Japan I think you MUST give it to the police and YOU CAN expect a 10% compensation when the owner shows up. But I don't know if it is compulsory (by law) or just customary.
Welcome to web 2.0... setup an collaborative website where users themselves provide your content, sit back and collect the advertisement money. Actually it's not that easy, you have to lure your visitors first.
I'm not complaining, I enjoy it as much as the next guy!
Wow, how come it doesnt seem so appropriate? Heres an example:
This guy lost his iphone and went after the guy who took it, and got back his iPhone. look in these cases, they both wanted to find and locate their iPhones,this guy didnt resort to call the police and went ahead taking risks and all to find the thief. Apple on the other hand knocked on the door and the dude who answered shrug them off and they left, they didnt persist to go in despite knowing a multi million dollar phone is lurking beyond the door, a good decision and they asked the police to assist them.
1. Theft of a phone would obviously cause monetary damage.
2. Look at the idiots posting here "Apple is evil", and I am sure that is the publicity Apple wants.
From the Wired story :
As it hasn't been confirmed that Hogan did get his friend to call AppleCare, I'm not sure anyone can say that he made any effort whatsoever.
He's a thief because _he picked up a phone that wasn't his_ and didn't try hard enough to return it to his owner. If you see a phone lying on the ground, there is a very simple thing you can do that keeps you out of any possible trouble: Don't pick it up. There is another very simple thing that you can do that keeps you out of any possible trouble and gives you a chance to legally own a phone without paying: Pick it up, bring it to the police, and if they can't find the owner, it will be yours after a few weeks or months.
What gets you into trouble is picking up the phone and later selling it.
Is this really what passes for an argument in this discussion? Does the same principle apply to a young gang member arrested for robbery and assault? Has the world gone mad?
Sad, isn't it? This is what happens when society has progressively lower and lower standards for people. That sort of BS doesn't fly when they are 18 and up, and in their teens, while not adults, they certainly understand that there are consequences for their actions.
How did apple know Hogan's identity?
My question is how exactly did apple come to learn that Hogan was the guy that "found" the prototype?
My question is how exactly did apple come to learn that Hogan was the guy that "found" the prototype?
Your phone was nothing special right? To you it was, and speaking personally I agree the cops should go and find the moron who stole my phone. But in this case it was a prototype. Which state and municipality is going after it? California. Why is that relevant? Because of all the tech companies in CA! If the local law enforcement blew it off that would be telling to all the tech companies located there. The tech companies don't want their IP to be stolen and the locals to sit back and treat it like a petty crime of some non-unique cell phone.