Finder of Lost Next-Generation iPhone Identified

[faustfire]

IMO the real mistake this guy made was only asking for 5 g's. Any idiot would have known that Gizmodo would have raked in millions in advertising revenue from their exclusive access to the iphone.

I would have asked for at least 50 g's in cash, and would not have given them any of my personal info.

This guy basically blew a chance of a lifetime.

(and please people, stop acting like Apple is your best friend, they are just another faceless corporation that makes billions exploiting the foreign labor markets. The deserve a little exploitation directed their way every now and then.)

 

[jimmyjoemccrow]

Crucifixion's too good for him!

 

[gr8tfly]

Ahhh, i can't resist...



Add to that, maybe, just maybe, others ideas of how the world works ain't so bad at all in comparison to yours.

Nope. Just makes me happy to live here. Demanding a reward for found property, whether backed by some law or not is just plain extortion. Just because there's a law, doesn't make it right. Here, the item does not belong to the finder. That means you have no rights to it. The finder can ask for a reward, but that not something forced upon the rightful owner. Any law written which would force such a thing would be against our constitution, though I don't have the relevant text handy. Something about protection of private property, no doubt.

Any US attorney please feel free to chime in and/or correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[gr8tfly]

In Japan I think you MUST give it to the police and YOU CAN expect a 10% compensation when the owner shows up. But I don't know if it is compulsory (by law) or just customary.

Customary is a much different thing than something forced upon the rightful owner. It's common, in the US, to ask, but there is no legal right to do so.

I think it works this way on the high seas. I'm no proctor of admiralty, though.

That, I believe, has to do with salvage rights. At that point, the owners have abandoned their property.

 

[Cartaphilus]

IMO the real mistake this guy made was only asking for 5 g's. Any idiot would have known that Gizmodo would have raked in millions in advertising revenue from their exclusive access to the iphone.

I would have asked for at least 50 g's in cash, and would not have given them any of my personal info.

This guy basically blew a chance of a lifetime.

(and please people, stop acting like Apple is your best friend, they are just another faceless corporation that makes billions exploiting the foreign labor markets. The deserve a little exploitation directed their way every now and then.)

You might find as interesting as I did an article in the NY Times that described the effect of the spike in page views on Gizmodo's income. According to the article, which quoted Gizmodo executives liberally, they had already sold that entire day's advertising to a single client--I think it was Eastman-Kodak--long before they had the the prototype, so they derived no immediate incremental revenue. Then, it turned out, Gizmodo was obliged to pay additional costs for the incremental bandwidth consumed in serving all those additional page views, and because their reporters get a bonus based on page views, they incurred additional compensation costs as well.

This is not to gainsay your point about Gizmodo benefiting, and naturally, as one of their officers said, the real benefit is long-term to their brand.

I thought the article provided an interesting insight into the economics of the business: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/business/media/26carr.html?scp=2&sq=gizmodo&st=cse

 

[MaryJanenumnum]

Iphone recovery

So Apple was hiding *****. That means they might be coming out with a new product or new features this September or October 2010. I don't think the man who found the phone should be at fault. The Apple employee what was "he" thinking? That was negligent of him to take the new product Apple created with him to a Bar when he's getting intoxicated. He's at fault for being irresponsible and leaving such an important item at a bar of all things. What, now Apple is just going to can that guy and the other man who found it is going to be in trouble?? It's dudes problem or this would not have happened.

 

[gr8tfly]

Sweden has it, for one. Don't know about any other countries but Swedish laws were generally not created out of thin air but modelled after those of other more dominant European countries like UK, Germany, France, especially now that we're in the EU together and interact more.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of those EU countries which had such a law. However, I seem to remember some minor event in which we broke away from European law and created our own... As such, we do have a different view of the world.

 

[Cartaphilus]

Nope. Just make me happy to live here. Demanding a reward for found property, whether backed by some law or not is just plain extortion. Just because there's a law, doesn't make it right. Here, the item does not belong to the finder. That means you have no rights to it. The finder can ask for a reward, but that not something forced upon the rightful owner. Any law written which would force such a thing would be against our constitution, though I don't have the relevant text handy. Something about protection of private property, no doubt.

Any US attorney please feel free to chime in and/or correct me if I'm wrong.

I can't of any reason why a state law to that effect would violate the U.S. Constitution. I don't think such a law would receive special scrutiny either. I thought about the Fifth Amendment due process clause:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The charge would be in the nature of a fee for service, or the towing charges in maritime law for a disabled vessel. California law already provides that someone who recovers a lost animal can charge the owner for the costs incurred in caring for it in the interim, and police departments in California can impose a fee for storing found goods. Were I a legislator concerned about the due process question, I would draft my law with a provision that the finder can have a hearing to determine whether the fee imposed upon him is unduly burdensome or unconscionable under his particular circumstances.

From a policy standpoint, I think rewarding the finder can reasonably be expected to increase the likelihood that he will fulfill his legal duty. Sticks are all well and good, but a carrot can also help.

So Apple was hiding *****. That means they might be coming out with a new product or new features this September or October 2010. I don't think the man who found the phone should be at fault. The Apple employee what was "he" thinking? That was negligent of him to take the new product Apple created with him to a Bar when he's getting intoxicated. He's at fault for being irresponsible and leaving such an important item at a bar of all things. What, now Apple is just going to can that guy and the other man who found it is going to be in trouble?? It's dudes problem or this would not have happened.

I respectfully refer the gentlelady to FAQ #4, as filed and amended.

 

[Anuba]

However, I seem to remember some minor event in which we broke away from European law and created our own... As such, we do have a different view of the world.

Indeed. You founded a new country with strong property rights, on land that belonged to someone else.

Finders, keepers, right?

Oh, I forgot... by Swedish law you have 14 days to turn in found items to the police. If Hogan lived here, he would've had time to let Giz take all the pictures they wanted and then given the phone to the police – and demanded a 10% reward afterwards. At which point Apple would've been required to attribute a cash value to the phone. If they would've claimed it was worthless or just given him 10% of whatever the parts were worth, they'd have a tough time claiming later that the phone was *really* worth a gazillion fajillion.

 

[gr8tfly]

I can't of any reason why a state law to that effect would violate the U.S. Constitution. I don't think such a law would receive special scrutiny either. I thought about the Fifth Amendment due process clause:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The charge would be in the nature of a fee for service, or the towing charges in maritime law for a disabled vessel. California law already provides that someone who recovers a lost animal can charge the owner for the costs incurred in caring for it in the interim, and police departments in California can impose a fee for storing found goods. Were I a legislator concerned about the due process question, I would draft my law with a provision that the finder can have a hearing to determine whether the fee imposed upon him is unduly burdensome or unconscionable under his particular circumstances.

From a policy standpoint, I think rewarding the finder can reasonably be expected to increase the likelihood that he will fulfill his legal duty. Sticks are all well and good, but a carrot can also help.

Thanks - that was pretty much my understanding. There wouldn't be a law demanding a reward. The costs you mention are reasonable and would be expected by the owner. But, those aren't what the average person would call a "reward". That all said, I don't see anything particularly wrong with asking for a reward (though, there certainly could be situations where it's in bad taste).

 

[Anuba]

It's often children who manage to find stuff (I guess it helps being closer to the ground and going to weird locations off the beaten path of adults), and if you're like 7 years old and get a reward 5 times bigger than your allowance because you've been a good boy and turned in some thingamabob you found, you get a memorable positive experience from A) your first encounter with police officers, B) all the ice cream you were able to buy. It might help condition kids to doing the right thing, better than the more abstract and less gratifying "the happiness of others is your reward, son, now get back on that thresher!"

And then, when the kid turns 21 and finds some iPhone prototype in a bar, instead of going to Gizmodo he'll start thinking about the truckloads of ice cream he can buy for the finder's fee from Apple.

 

[satcomer]

What would YOU do if you had found it?

Returned it to the bartender. That was an easy question.

 

[Anuba]

Returned it to the bartender. That was an easy question.

And the next time you return, there's a Rolls-Royce outside the bar – the bartender bought it for the reward+NDA money from Apple.

 

[satcomer]

My only question is lifted from their own actions of posting the owner of the iPhone prototype on the net. So Gizmodo knew the identity of the lost iPhone owner before the iPhone was locked out and they disassembled the iPhone. So to me something is awfully fishy about Gizmodo in this whole affair .

 

[gr8tfly]

....
And then, when the kid turns 21 and finds some iPhone prototype in a bar, instead of going to Gizmodo he'll start thinking about the truckloads of ice cream he can buy for the finder's fee from Apple.

That might be true, but I still strongly feel it should be up to Apple (or any owner) whether or not to post a finder's fee - not be forced to by law. For all we know, it might have been offered - had he only gone directly (and promptly) to Apple.

 

[satcomer]

And the next time you return, there's a Rolls-Royce outside the bar – the bartender bought it for the reward+NDA money from Apple.

That's the difference from me to you. I don't want to take advantage of a someone else's mistake to make money.

 

[Anuba]

That's the difference from me to you

No, that's the difference between you and the bartender.

 

[CalBoy]

Your phone was nothing special right? To you it was, and speaking personally I agree the cops should go and find the moron who stole my phone. But in this case it was a prototype. Which state and municipality is going after it? California. Why is that relevant? Because of all the tech companies in CA! If the local law enforcement blew it off that would be telling to all the tech companies located there. The tech companies don't want their IP to be stolen and the locals to sit back and treat it like a petty crime of some non-unique cell phone.

The difference being that my assailants were gun-toting criminals who are still at large and represent a legitimate threat to others. This guy also didn't really break into a lab and forcefully take the phone; he was an opportunist. Sure, send a message by enforcing the law appropriately. Launching such a massive investigation over something that was by and large Apple (and the employee's) fault is really ridiculous.

And once again, while I realize the reality of politics (all too well in fact), that doesn't make it any more right.

 

[Hal Itosis]

And the next time you return, there's a Rolls-Royce outside the bar – the bartender bought it for the reward+NDA money from Apple.

. . . Which only serves to further highlight Hogan's incompetence. After the prototype status was realized, that was his second opportunity to do the right thing... but somehow he failed that task as well.

Would you have given up so easily?

Game over man, he's a two-time loser.

[i'm sure he will survive and turn out a much better person for having learned a "valuable" lesson.]

--

BTW Anuba, have you figured out yet where you stand on all this? Admittedly, i'm unable to detect any spine in your posts. (Mostly strange speculations about hypothetical scenarios pertaining to Apple's visit, and other seemingly unrelated matters).

 

[LagunaSol]

Launching such a massive investigation over something that was by and large Apple (and the employee's) fault is really ridiculous.

Massive??? Define please.

 

[Bilbo63]

Finders Fee?

This whole idea seems like it would be setting a bad precedent to me. You'd have stuff going missing all the time, just so someone else can turn it it for the finders fee.

Whatever happened to good old honesty? What ever happened to just doing the right thing? People that expect that there ALWAYS has to be something in it for them make me sick. Is this what society has come to?

Apple isn't perfect. I don't think anyone here thinks that they are. It was Apple's employee that lost the phone whilst field testing it. It was Apple's employee that didn't have a security code on the phone. Not that it would have made much difference as it was only live for a short time.

The Apple engineer's mistake may have been a bit careless but it was an honest one (unless he's proved to be more involved than we all know). Brian Hogan's mistakes were anything but honest. Gizmodo didn't do the right things either.

Those who say that this whole thing is Apple's fault need their heads checked. This whole story went bad in a hurry when Mr. Hogan entered the picture.

Unfortunately the knucklehead is likely going to regret not doing the right things when he had the chance.

 

[cmaier]

Finders Fee?

This whole idea seems like it would be setting a bad precedent to me. You'd have stuff going missing all the time, just so someone else can turn it it for the finders fee.

Whatever happened to good old honesty? What ever happened to just doing the right thing? People that expect that there ALWAYS has to be something in it for them make me sick. Is this what society has come to?

Apple isn't perfect. I don't think anyone here thinks that they are. It was Apple's employee that lost the phone whilst field testing it. It was Apple's employee that didn't have a security code on the phone. Not that it would have made much difference as it was only live for a short time.

The Apple engineer's mistake may have been a bit careless but it was an honest one (unless he's proved to be more involved than we all know). Brian Hogan's mistakes were anything but honest. Gizmodo didn't do the right things either.

Those who say that this whole thing is Apple's fault need their heads checked. This whole story went bad in a hurry when Mr. Hogan entered the picture.

Unfortunately the knucklehead is likely going to regret not doing the right things when he had the chance.

If an employee loses corporate property, who pays the finders fee? If the corporation, it also generates moral hazards.

 

[wovel]

Yes I did. Time will tell if the facts are made up.

They were made up, we need no time. Unless you have first hand knowledge.. Nothing says they were secuirty guards, nothing says they intimidated..

Thinking you are right does not mean you did not make it up.

 

[farmboy]

It was sufficiently bulletproof for Gizmodo to plaster his name and face all over the internet.

Nuthin' but NET!

This stuff is like crack, I can't stay away...help.

 

[mightybrite999]

This has truly been blown out of proportion.
first Apple employee's kindly asked for the iphone, or to look for it, when turned down they left and called the police. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Lets also not debate the moral implications. No one can accuse Apple being a moral company. remember SJ's favorite quote was "great artists steal."

LET us debate the absolute ****** moron this kid is. if you have a prototype device from a company and your going to sell it to a journalist. its anonymous, disposable email accounts sent from public computers *or that friends pc that you have and dont really like* back alley transactions, black suit cases filled with money and covered faces all the way.

what would be better is to send one anon email to SJ with a photo of the iphone, then deck yerself out with a trench coat, put a scarf over your face and get one of those voice morphing thingies. trot down to the few remaining pay phones ring Steven (thats right i called him Steven) and say
"Hello, by now you have checked your email and can see for yourself that i have what you want, now my question to you Steve, would you like to play a game?"

Or better yet go all Die hard 3 on him

"As i was going to the pub i saw a man who was a little chub. the prototype in his possession ignited my obsession when he took it out of his pocket i thought why not and rocked it, now out of all the iphones that have been released how many new features does this one have Steve? call me back at 555- and the answer."

"Steve" ok lets see, all the iphones, and the new feature on this one...ONE! the answer is one! and its probably something no one cares about anyway!

btw im a huge Mac lover so dont take this as me ripping on Apple