Firefox 4

[chrismacguy]

Sorry to tell you but you honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about. Minefield is an official Mozilla project used for things like beta feature development etc. It is what FF will be essentially.

When you base what you type on delusional thoughts rather than truth or facts it's pretty sad. The code in software makes it what it is.. not the name. You're bordering on truly delusional when you say an app is not FF just because the name is different.

Minefield IS FireFox.

Actually what Minefield is is the nightly builds of Firefox and the Betas (Not just the betas, and not every Beta is known as Minefield for its entire life) - every version of Firefox spends a lot of time as a Minefield and then finally is cleaned up enough and released. Although I agree completely with your point I just thought Id further clarify exactly what Minefield is.

You don't know WTF you're talking about. Official builds are called FIREFOX, not fraking "Minefield." I don't care if it's Mozilla Community, it's NOT OFFICIAL. You can call names or whatever but you're still clueless. Log on to Firefox's site. Does it offer you a PPC binary? Hell no.

Minefield is the name used WHILE IT IS STILL IN DEVELOPMENT to prevent user confusion. It is still an official build, it is just not called Firefox while it isn't the current shipping release they want everyone to download. Go and look at Mozillas Firefox site, look at nightly builds - and there it is.

 

[zen.state]

You don't know WTF you're talking about. Official builds are called FIREFOX, not fraking "Minefield." I don't care if it's Mozilla Community, it's NOT OFFICIAL. You can call names or whatever but you're still clueless. Log on to Firefox's site. Does it offer you a PPC binary? Hell no.

If I were you I would use the combined power of those 4 computers in your signature to go learn a few things.

chris:
Thanks for your additional info!

 

[chrismacguy]

If I were you I would use the combined power of those 4 computers in your signature to go learn a few things.

Maybe we can help him. Minefield is avaliable here, it is aka firefox nightlies: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/prerelease.html See how it has Firefox in the URL. See that. Good.

 

[AdrianK]

That's NOT an official version of Firefox4 either, hence the name "Minefield" on the program. In other words, it's no different than TenFourFox in that regard.

...No.

The now-defunct 'Minefield' builds are firefox nightlies, maintained by none other than the Mozilla foundation. It's official.

TenFourFox is not maintained by the Mozilla foundation, it's maintained by a third party. Since TFF is not associated with Mozilla it is unofficial.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

...No.

The now-defunct 'Minefield' builds are firefox nightlies, maintained by none other than the Mozilla foundation. It's official.

TenFourFox is not maintained by the Mozilla foundation, it's maintained by a third party. Since TFF is not associated with Mozilla it is unofficial.

It's technically "official" in the sense it's sanctioned on the developer site, but it's not an "official release" of "Firefox 4" because it's incomplete and has never been available outside nightly developer builds (It has NEVER been officially released on the main site as "Firefox 4" and bugs were introduced to make sure PPC owners don't get false 'upgrade' reminders since there is nothing for them to upgrade to).

If Minefield were Firefox 4 it would have the JIT Javascript engine and add-on isolation components. At best it's a HYBRID of Firefox 3.x and 4.x at this point. In other words, it's not complete and therefore hasn't been available since "Day 1" of the official 4.0 release. The official announcement is that Firefox 4 for PPC Mac is NOT going to be completed and therefore not going to be officially released. Beta software is not an official release. Minefield is not Firefox 4, just a close approximation that may or may not fully work with various add-ons, etc. (Minefied didn't work with half the add-ons I use on my Intel build of Firefox 4, but ironically, TenFourFox DID work for the same revision).

Now you can play semantic and flaming games (see where the latter gets you) over what is official versus officially released versus beta versus developer builds versus I don't give a crap. It doesn't change a darn thing. The reality is there is no "Firefox 4" for PPC. There's an incomplete (but running hybrid) beta that cannot guarantee compatibility with add-ons (over half don't work here) and a partially complete 3rd party build that's more complete (all my FF4 add-ons worked on this one) than the so-called 'official' build. Neither will appear on the main site and it's looking like a real possibility that Minefield is or will soon be abandoned entirely. If you want to call that "Firefox 4" despite the fact it won't function with many Firefox4 add-ons, etc., go ahead. It doesn't change a thing.

I will continue to use TenFourFox since it actually appears to be compatible with all add-ons I've tried for FF4 and it's legitimately faster than FF3.6 for Javascript (whereas Minefield was nearly the same since it's using the 3.6 code).

 

[zen.state]

Like I said.. delusional.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Like I said.. delusional.

Yes, I imagined the Firefox developers stating categorically that there would likely be no support for PPC with Firefox 4 and I equally imagined going to the Firefox web site after Firefox 3.6 told me I could upgrade to Firefox 4 only to find out that the binary said my architecture wasn't supported. I also imagined seeing "Minefield" on the developer beta rather than "Firefox" and I also imagined seeing almost the same Javascript test results as 3.6 when I tried it on the SunSpider test (indicating no JIT engine that was one of the hallmark features of Firefox4 that makes it "Firefox 4". Otherwise, it's not much faster than Firefox 3.6. I also imagined that over half the Firefox 4 add-ons I attempted to install with Minefield never even showed up or gave Javascript errors. Yes, I'm clearly delusional.

I appreciate the efforts involved for Minefield and even more so for TenFourFox which appears to be very stable thus far and unlike your 'official' Firefox 4 for PPC, it actually does run considerably faster than Firefox 3.6 for Javascript thanks to its author finishing the PPC JIT engine. It may not have the isolation of the add-ons, but at least all the add-ons I tried WORKED with it (unlike Minefield). It also runs under Tiger (still a boot option here even though I hardly ever use it these days).

I can't say I appreciate a bunch of flamers telling me something has been released officially that clearly has not and play semantic games over information that was more than clear (kind of like those people that jumped on everyone that said "virus" in the malware threads). All one had to say was that Minefield is an official beta, but not an official release version since it was never fully finished and won't be, at least by the original team. But I doubt I'll see many replies any time soon from a few of the more obvious flamers, though. Calling someone an idiot is a sure-fire way to get banned on here. I'll let the delusional bit go. Have a nice day.

 

[chrismacguy]

Yes, I imagined the Firefox developers stating categorically that there would likely be no support for PPC with Firefox 4 and I equally imagined going to the Firefox web site after Firefox 3.6 told me I could upgrade to Firefox 4 only to find out that the binary said my architecture wasn't supported. I also imagined seeing "Minefield" on the developer beta rather than "Firefox" and I also imagined seeing almost the same Javascript test results as 3.6 when I tried it on the SunSpider test (indicating no JIT engine that was one of the hallmark features of Firefox4 that makes it "Firefox 4". Otherwise, it's not much faster than Firefox 3.6. I also imagined that over half the Firefox 4 add-ons I attempted to install with Minefield never even showed up or gave Javascript errors. Yes, I'm clearly delusional.

I appreciate the efforts involved for Minefield and even more so for TenFourFox which appears to be very stable thus far and unlike your 'official' Firefox 4 for PPC, it actually does run considerably faster than Firefox 3.6 for Javascript thanks to its author finishing the PPC JIT engine. It may not have the isolation of the add-ons, but at least all the add-ons I tried WORKED with it (unlike Minefield). It also runs under Tiger (still a boot option here even though I hardly ever use it these days).

I can't say I appreciate a bunch of flamers telling me something has been released officially that clearly has not and play semantic games over information that was more than clear (kind of like those people that jumped on everyone that said "virus" in the malware threads). All one had to say was that Minefield is an official beta, but not an official release version since it was never fully finished and won't be, at least by the original team. But I doubt I'll see many replies any time soon from a few of the more obvious flamers, though. Calling someone an idiot is a sure-fire way to get banned on here. I'll let the delusional bit go. Have a nice day.

The argument began because you said that it was a community build, which it evidentially isn't, its a Mozilla Test/Beta/Nightly release. And it might be finished by the official team - as this is open source software technically anyone is "the official team" - now thats a semantic game we could, but I really don't see the need too play. Also, nobody ever stated it was a final release, you just started bandying around how it was nothing to do with the "official" Mozilla, which was untrue, so we corrected you. That isn't flaming. Its correction - Although again, no need to have another argument.

Although I would rather use TenFourFox than Minefield, the point remains. Although I wouldn't put it past the official team to see how brilliant TenFourFox is slowly becoming, and then reincorporate PPC for the duration of FF4, possibly on a delayed schedule.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

The argument began because you said that it was a community build, which it evidentially isn't, its a Mozilla Test/Beta/Nightly release.

Well, if you look at this site where I got it from off the blog of the maintainer, it shouldn't be difficult to see why I would call it a "community build":

http://firefoxmac.furbism.com/

As you can see, it plainly says "Firefox Mac Community Builds" on the page. Throw in the fact that it is Mozilla policy that anything that is currently unofficial is not allowed to be called "Firefox" and it's pretty obvious why I would compare it to TenFourFox. I said it wasn't an official version of Firefox. While I didn't realize it was 'sanctioned' by Mozilla based off the site I got it from, it's still not "Firefox" until it's finished and officially released as such (and IMO doesn't quality as "available since Day 1" since it's still not available on the main site and for good reason. It's not there yet and may never be. It's buggy and many features don't work. I found that out very quickly. It's because it's using hybrid 3.6 features to get it to run.

TenFourFox, OTOH, seems more stable than Firefox proper here (no freezes like the ones I keep getting on my Intel based Netbook running Firefox 4.0.1) and all add-ons have worked, not to mention it has an improved Javascript engine (not sure how it compares to the official one since my MBP is faster to begin with, but it makes this PPC Mac over 2x faster for Javascript, which means many sites feel faster). The only glitch I've seen is a tab remaining highlighted once when making changes with add-ons. Frankly, it terms of operation, this build looks, acts and feels like Firefox. They could incorporate the changes and release it as the PPC version of Firefox and I don't think anyone would know the difference (other than the lack of hardware acceleration and WebGL support, the former of which is true of the official build for older versions of the OS as well).

And it might be finished by the official team - as this is open source software technically anyone is "the official team" - now thats a semantic game we could, but I really don't see the need too play.

Anyone that follows their rules. It sounds like the maker of TenFourFox has made some changes to keep it compatible with older Macs and Tiger that even he makes it sound like the Mozilla team probably wouldn't like (which is absurd since older OS versions are legit). But there must be some difference or he would be contributing directly to the project. Maybe it's the fact he wants to see PPC releases publicly advertised, not hidden on some developer page?

Also, nobody ever stated it was a final release, you just started bandying around how it was nothing to do with the "official" Mozilla, which was untrue, so we corrected you. That isn't flaming. Its correction - Although again, no need to have another argument.

All versions have "something" to do with the official Mozilla since they are clearly based on its code. By no official PPC version, I mean there is no official front page release. As far as Mozilla is concerned, they do not support a PPC build by their own words. Having an internal nightly build (which isn't nightly anymore and may have been abandoned period) is not the same thing.

As for flaming, you must have missed the 'idiot' and 'fool' comments I got from some others, so I wouldn't put the word 'we' in there seeing as your comments have been civil. Some people are finding out very quickly that these forums have rules, especially in some of the iOS threads where it seems like a younger generation is used to flaming each other all day long at the drop of a hat and must sign up without reading the posting requirements (or don't care if they're banned).

Whatever the case, TenFourFox is the best bet right now for running a "Firefox 4" compatible browser on PPC. It may very well have some issues still or not work with every add-on (I only test the ones I use), but it's as close to a full release there is. The so-called nightly build doesn't work anywhere near as well. I have borrowed the Minefield dock icon for TenFourFox, though. It's nicer looking than TenFourFox's icon, IMO and frankly better looking than the Firefox one as well since it's Mac specific.

 

[zen.state]

This is what people who simply refuse to admit fault do. Try to throw a bunch of words at the issue and talk in circles rather than admit they were wrong like a grown up.

On a public forum you're accountable for the things you say whether you like or a agree with it or not. I am wrong sometimes also.. we all are. The difference is that mature people admit it and learn from the knowledge offered when they are corrected.

If you had simply added "IMO" or "AFAIK" to your comment you would not have seen any negative feedback at all. When you state info as fact you should actually know WTH you're saying.

 

[OM617]

Official builds are called FIREFOX, not fraking "Minefield." I don't care if it's Mozilla Community, it's NOT OFFICIAL.

That is false information.

It's technically "official" in the sense it's sanctioned on the developer site, but it's not an "official release" of "Firefox 4" because it's incomplete and has never been available outside nightly developer builds (It has NEVER been officially released on the main site as "Firefox 4" and bugs were introduced to make sure PPC owners don't get false 'upgrade' reminders since there is nothing for them to upgrade to).

By your very own logic you've confirmed TFF is not, in any way shape or form, official.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

This is what people who simply refuse to admit fault do. Try to throw a bunch of words at the issue and talk in circles rather than admit they were wrong like a grown up.

I'm still waiting for you to admit you're wrong, but you keep replying with a bunch of words.

The FACT is Minefield for PPC on the Elfurbe site is NOT Firefox 4 and you keep saying it is will not change that FACT. It's a hybrid unfinished unofficial third party community beta. It's not an official Firefox and never will be.

1> The site it's hosted on is a private party site (not Mozilla).
2> The real nightly FTP site does not contain a PPC build PERIOD.
3> The release/announcement thread for the Elfurbe build says point-blank at the top of the page it's an unofficial 3rd party build.

In short, my original reply was 100% correct. Not 90%. But 100%. You people are just WRONG.

Minefield IS the name of the official nightly builds, but that does not make Elfurbe's "community build" official in any sense of the word. It says it's a 3rd party unofficial build point blank! Look below for all the proof in the world (to which none to the contrary has been provided thus far).

That is false information.

To quote Obi-Wan, that depends entirely on your point of view. You are using "official" to mean "related" and I'm using it to mean "dubbed and released". The context has always made that clear. The site it is on says community build and the name of the program is not Firefox. The icon is not Firefox and the program is a hybrid of FF3.6 and FF4. It is less Firefox than TenFourFox is. All of those are indisputable facts.

If you want me to say I didn't know that build was affiliated with Mozilla, I've already said it, but frankly, I doubt I was wrong even that much at this point. I've visited the nightly build repository and downloaded the only file for Firefox 4.0.1 there marked as MAC and it does NOT contain a PPC build. See for yourself:

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/

The site listed for the "PPC Build" is not a mozilla site! It's a personal web site owned by elfurbe. See for yourself:

http://firefoxmac.furbism.com/

Now click back to the main site furbism.com. Does that look ANYTHING like Mozilla.com to you? It says right at the top of the page "COMMUNITY BUILDS". I don't know how much more CLEAR something can get. It's a private build of the official trunk with FF3.x code pasted in to make it run. The nightly trunk is called Minefield. Firefox has a rule about calling 3rd party releases "Firefox", but not Minefield since Minefield are beta/unfinished versions.

Now how THAT makes "Firefox 4" for PPC available since Day 1 and "official" I still don't know. I'm waiting to see actual proof there is an official "Firefox 4" for PPC somewhere, not community builds with FF3 glue used to make it run of nightly trunks on private web sites.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys can sit there and say with a straight face there is a PPC official version of Firefox 4 when there isn't. Go to there site. When it asks you if you want to download Firefox 4, where is the PPC version??? It's not there because it doesn't exist. You screaming some imaginary program exists over and over for days won't make it true. It's absolutely ridiculous behavior.

And yes me replying to it at all is ridiculous, for that matter. But no one that comes to this thread should be confused about the issue. There is no official Firefox4 for PPC available.

There's an unfinished hybrid of FF3.6 and FF4 called Minefield and a much more finished and polished 3rd party release called TenFourFox that appears to be mostly compatible with FF4 and that's it.

By your very own logic you've confirmed TFF is not, in any way shape or form, official.

No, you added "in any way shape or form" and that is putting words in one's mouth and is far worse than anything I've ever said in this thread. But I have yet to see any evidence that my original statement was false. What makes a hybrid community build on a private web site an official version of Firefox 4?

Minefield IS the official Firefox.

Incorrect. TenFourFox is a hackjob that doesn't work correctly. Firefox 4 is a full conversion optimized for PPC.

If anything, TenFourFox DOES work correctly (I've been using it for several days with no issues what-so-ever) whereas Elfurbe's "Minefield" does NOT work correctly. Try to find various Firefox4 add-ons for it. Search for Forecast Fox, for example. Nothing comes up. It does in Firefox4 and TenFourFox. Try running 1-click weather on it. You'll get javascript error after error. You call that correct behavior?

Here's the proof ALL of you were WRONG:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewt...id=b3d91de44868d89e6b4d3239019e57c9&start=885

That's Elfurbe's forum thread for the PPC build in question. It clearly says at the top, "THIRD PARTY/UNOFFICIAL BUILDS". I don't know how much clearer you can get than that! There IS an official "Minefield" nightly, but Elfurbe's build is NOT it. Just because the name was never changed from the trunk default, that alone doesn't make it 'official' in ANY sense of the word. I could release one called "Firefox 4", but that won't make it official either.

 

[chrismacguy]

I'm still waiting for you to admit you're wrong, but you keep replying with a bunch of words.

The FACT is Minefield is NOT Firefox 4 and you keep saying it is will not change that FACT. It's a hybrid unfinished beta called Minefield. It's not an official Firefox and never will be.

It is an official Firefox. It is an official test release. Although recently Mozilla have changed their mind and started muddying the waters by calling them Firefox Nightlies to be difficult.

It isn't the full FireFox 4, and in fact depending on which particular Minefield you are running they may be more or less current than it (There are some Firefox Nightlies of whatever the next one from FireFox 4 will be called - be it FF5 or FF4.x). Just to be clear, I never said it was and neither did zen. What we said was it was official Firefox, which it is, it just isn't a public release of it. Every developer knows there is a gradual transition from Build to Build with things being added, fixed and generally broken all at once (hence it being a Minefield). It isn't any form of a hybrid. More an evolutionary step between 3.6 and 4 (To be a hybrid it would have to have been created after both of them - semantically speaking).

Also, you should stop commenting about the mozilla team like they're some kindve evil... mainly as the ones ive met are nice people. The reason there wasn't a PowerPC build is likely because nobody on the team had the time or energy to fix and keep improving a product to golden release from the buggy Beta 7 for PowerPC - I have no idea if you've ever tried to develop an application on that scale, but trust me if you haven't - fixing it to work on every architecture is such a stress inducing pain that sometimes the architectures that are less current (eg PPC) are dropped not out of want, but because otherwise a larger proportion of the user base eg The Intel community, would be irate that theirs wasn't perfect. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually TenFourFox was reincorporated back in if they keep up for a release or two - its happened to plenty of projects in the past. And if they don't, oh well, the PowerPC shall live on as everyone else keeps it working on Tiger and Leopard.

Also: I am in full agreement TenFourFox is a LOT better than Minefield. Its what I use on Tiger, and what I will be continuing to use. There is NO official GOLDEN MASTER of FF4 for PowerPC, but TenFourFox makes up for that as its pretty much as good.

 

[macdudeguy]

Magnus... you're wrong. Just embrace it and stop arguing.

 

[MagicBoy]

That is false information.

Seriously, how many new accounts are you going to open?

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

It is an official Firefox. It is an official test release. Although recently Mozilla have changed their mind and started muddying the waters by calling them Firefox Nightlies to be difficult.

"Minefield" is a name for the official Firefox nightly, but that does not make Elfurbe's PPC build "official". I can tell from your quote, you were looking at my unedited post before I found all the pieces to prove it. Here's a quick summary:

ElFurbe's release thread for PPC Minefield:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewt...id=b3d91de44868d89e6b4d3239019e57c9&start=885

Note how it says point blank at the top that it's a 3rd party UNOFFICIAL build, not an official nightly.

This is Elfurbe's web site that hosts the PPC binary in question that TechnoDestructo said was the official PPC version:

http://firefoxmac.furbism.com/

Notice how it's a private 3rd party site, not a Mozilla based one, confirming with the above that it's a private 3rd party unofficial build of a Minefield nightly. Unlike TenFourFox, the name was simply not changed from the trunk name of the program. That does not make it official in any sense of the word.

Also, you should stop commenting about the mozilla team like they're some kindve evil... mainly as the ones ive met are nice people. The reason there wasn't a PowerPC build is likely because nobody on the team had the time or energy to fix and keep improving a product to golden release from the buggy Beta 7 for PowerPC - I have no idea if you've ever tried to develop an

I never said they were evil. I said they apparently had no interest in finishing the PPC build since TenFourMac graciously sent them the finished JIT engine (1/2 of what they were complaining about). I wouldn't be surprised if TenFour eventually finishes the add-on isolation as well if they haven't already.

Also: I am in full agreement TenFourFox is a LOT better than Minefield. Its what I use on Tiger, and what I will be continuing to use. There is NO official GOLDEN MASTER of FF4 for PowerPC, but TenFourFox makes up for that as its pretty much as good.

I never said TenFourFox wasn't good. I like it. I'm using it now. It's better than using FF3.6. Javascript is much faster and overall it feels a bit faster as well.

All I EVER said was there is no official Firefox4 for PPC and from everything I've seen online, this is 100% true. For that, I got a half dozen people to jump all over me telling me an unofficial build is official when it's not.

Magnus... you're wrong. Just embrace it and stop arguing.

How am I wrong? I've PROVEN beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Elfurbe build is UNOFFICIAL and that is the entire burden of proof for my statements to be 100% factual. There is nothing "official" about that PPC build.

 

[chrismacguy]

I never said they were evil. I said they apparently had no interest in finishing the PPC build since TenFourMac graciously sent them the finished JIT engine (1/2 of what they were complaining about). I wouldn't be surprised if TenFour eventually finishes the add-on isolation as well if they haven't already.



I never said TenFourFox wasn't good. I like it. I'm using it now. It's better than using FF3.6. Javascript is much faster and overall it feels a bit faster as well..

I never said you said they were evil just it came across that you were treating them as such, and I know you didn't I was agreeing with you on TenFourFox.

I also never said that hacked up mess of a Minefield was an official build, I just stated that there was an official Minefield for PPC build. It died with Beta 7 (and this is where TenFourFox comes from), but before someone else got hold of it and messed around with it rather a lot, it did exist as an official mozilla sanctioned build, which is official regardless of whether it was a Public Release. It was still an Official release. Those two are very different and it seems to me and the other 10 or so people here you are confusing the two.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I also never said that hacked up mess of a Minefield was an official build, I just stated that there was an official Minefield for PPC build.

The original reply from TechnoDestructo said there was a Firefox 4 for PPC from Day 1 and linked to the ElFurb 3rd party unofficial build site. I commented that was not an official build any more than TenFourFox was (which is true by the Elfurbe themself as it's posted as a 3rd party community build on a private site). THAT was what got me the wrath from those involved here. But I said nothing that wasn't true. I was actually convinced I was wrong about it not being an official/sanctioned beta WIP, but that proved incorrect as well.

There may well have been official betas as you say, but they are abandoned, unfinished and will never be released as "Firefox". Whatever I misconstrued, it was after my original reply and due to incorrect information being told to me from numerous people. When I actually took the time to look it up, it turns out I was right about the version I ran into AND that TechnoDestructo pointed to himself (and therefore the version ALL of us were supposed to be talking about). That version IS unofficial, despite its name being the same as the official nightly builds.

It died with Beta 7 (and this is where TenFourFox comes from), but before someone else got hold of it and messed around with it rather a lot, it did exist as an official mozilla sanctioned build, which is official regardless of whether it was a Public Release. It was still an Official release. Those two are very different and it seems to me and the other 10 or so people here you are confusing the two.

That's just it. I'm not the one that was confused. I was talking about CURRENT releases of Firefox 4 and referenced both sites in question. There are no official current builds that I can find, only the unofficial community "Elfurbe" Minefield "build" and the 3rd party TenFourFox release. The site TechnoDestructo pointed to and that subsequent posters replied about and insisted was "official" was the Elfurbe 3rd party unofficial build site. I never talked about other versions of Firefox nightlies or past abandoned ones. I said the Firefox team said it's abandoned and that's true. Unless someone completes it to their satisfaction, it will remain so.

Personally, I think the TenFourFox build is more than adequate to be picked up by the official site, but I don't know what criteria they're using. If it's still missing the add-on isolation, that's probably the biggest issue. They may have made other changes that the Firefox team wouldn't like as well, for all I know.

I think it's a shame in general how fast PPC software is drying up lately. Most of this is attributable to Apple removing all PPC support from XCode4. That makes it a load of extra work to make backward compatible releases, particularly if they have no simple way to test builds and most consider the remaining PPC market too small to bother. That comes with having a single supplier of OSX hardware (not counting the relatively small number of Hackintoshes out there). Personally, my PowerMac works just fine for the type of software I run on it, but I do need up-to-date e-mail and browser access and more importantly yet, iTunes for newer iOS hardware support. Safari and iTunes haven't been dumped yet, but some think Lion may spell the end of it just as Tiger has been dumped for both Safari and iTunes now.

I still maintain that if Apple had kept PPC support for Snow Leopard and dumped it with Lion, you'd see few complaints because that would mean software would have been viable for remaining PowerPC machines for at least a year past Lion in most cases (high powered G4 and most G5 computers are still very useful; lower-end G4s and nearly all G3s are becoming naturally underpowered, the way things should happen). "Universal Binaries" were pretty normal while Xcode supported them. It is that single move that has killed most backwards compatible software.

I'm sure newer Intel users with no old hardware are either thrilled or couldn't give a crap, but I see no reason to spend another $800 minimum to replace a simple audio/video server (needed 24/7, but not needed for full power since I have other computers for that). I suppose I could go pick up a dirt cheap PC for $300 and run iTunes off Windows7 instead.... That's the kind of option Apple leaves you with. I'd at least consider a MacMini to do the job since I prefer the OS, but I really want USB3 on the next machine to use with my 3TB media drives. They are slow enough as it is, being external 5400 RPM drives. There's some question if/when Apple will use USB3 and if they will update the MacMini any time soon or even ever again. I was hoping this PowerMac would last until I could get a reasonable priced USB3 server. If I go Hackintosh cheap PC, I suppose that would let me have the hardware and turn on the support when a driver becomes available, but it will likely take up more desk space. I've been tooling around with the idea of using a KVM switch and share one desk space and keyboard/monitor/mouse setup with two computers to free up some desk space for something else (like a keyboard to do music editing more ergonomically than in my living room where my workstation is where I had to put the MBP on top of the piano and it was not a good viewing or keying angle).

The funny thing is that if AppleTV's software supported standards like UPnP/NAS storage, I wouldn't need a server at all. I could use my Netgear router instead even.

 

[zen.state]

If you keep talking in circles you'll get dizzy.

 

[Huntn]

Firefox offered to install version 4 on my PPC G5, but as others said it would not install. I happened to notice the Firefox icon in the .dmg file had a big circle with a slash through it.

Based on the comments in this thread I installed TenFourFox and was surprised that on the first start it loaded up all of my Firefox extension/addons/themes.

I admit not to reading through every reply in this thread, but is there a reason I should not be using TFF, where it would be better using Firefox 3.6? Thanks!

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

If you keep talking in circles you'll get dizzy.

I'd rather be dizzy than 100% wrong. Too bad certain people refuse to admit it.

...

HuntN, I held off until my favorite add-ons were compatible with FF4 like the Noia theme, for example. TenFourFox works fine here.

 

[cocacolakid]

What is dizzying is how many people have so much free time to argue about pointless things.

 

[Psychomacuser]

Magnus... you're wrong. Just embrace it and stop arguing.

This guy Magnus is a Pridurak(fool).