Firefox Quantum is out - could be great for TFF users

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

So, Mozilla appears to have just released Firefox Quantum; they claim to have rebuilt the browser from the ground up, with speed improvements in-mind. And, well, I have to say the following: I have tried it out within Sierra, on a modern Mac, and I can conclude that Mozilla finally has made a browser that's actually fast and efficient.


This has GOT to be great for PowerPC users, assuming that TenFourFox is updated with these technologies. It's going to make the application run better on PPC Macs than ever before. Personally, I loathe how slow and hungry Firefox/TenFourFox is; so, if this marks a turnaround, I'm relieved. It's great for any Firefox user - including PowerPC-Mac users. Can't wait for an update; I'll go test it on my PowerMac G5.

P.S. New icon design + new tab design.

 

[AphoticD]

As exciting as this is for x86, I have a feeling that a rewrite from the ground up is unlikely to be ported to PowerPC. But maybe there are some components which can be adapted.

From what I understand, TenFourFox is a one-dev operation compared to Mozilla’s Team of hundreds (thousands?) of developers/contributors.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

As exciting as this is for x86, I have a feeling that a rewrite from the ground up is unlikely to be ported to PowerPC. But maybe there are some components which can be adapted.

From what I understand, TenFourFox is a one-dev operation compared to Mozilla’s Team of hundreds (thousands?) of developers/contributors.

True - don't know if the TFF dev has time for that... but, hopefully something happens.

 

[redheeler]

The new design reminds me of Microsoft Edge on Windows more than anything else. As for porting it to PowerPC Macs, the TenFourFox developer has spoken of the difficulty of porting Firefox versions later than 45, due to their reliance on newer frameworks not present in PPC Mac OS X. TenFourFox is still based on version 45 and it's unlikely that will change anytime soon.

Edit: I'm disappointed to see the new version 57 no longer works properly on Intel OS X 10.8.5 running on my 2006 iMac 6,1. Firefox 56 and earlier do (though Mozilla hasn't officially supported 10.8.5 since ESR 45).

 

[eyoungren]

So, Mozilla appears to have just released Firefox Quantum; they claim to have rebuilt the browser from the ground up, with speed improvements in-mind. And, well, I have to say the following: I have tried it out within Sierra, on a modern Mac, and I can conclude that Mozilla finally has made a browser that's actually fast and efficient.


This has GOT to be great for PowerPC users, assuming that TenFourFox is updated with these technologies. It's going to make the application run better on PPC Macs than ever before. Personally, I loathe how slow and hungry Firefox/TenFourFox is; so, if this marks a turnaround, I'm relieved. It's great for any Firefox user - including PowerPC-Mac users. Can't wait for an update; I'll go test it on my PowerMac G5.

P.S. New icon design + new tab design.

Uhhhhh…what you are speaking of is the reason TenFourFox is now in parity release (Parity Release 4 now to be exact) and no longer matching features.

http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2017/02/farewell-to-sha-1-and-hello-to.html

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tenfourfox-source-parity-were-done-folks.2034696/

Additionally, the new Firefox addons are not compatible with TenFourFox.

In short, this isn't going to happen. Kaiser is already on the move to fix things that make T4Fx more specific to PowerPC and that bring us farther away from Mozilla.

 

[swamprock]

Quantum has one minor bug that I've found so far. Pages won't render from the default window. It could be an extension that I'm running, but selecting one of my bookmarks from the default page seems to load the page, but there's nothing there. I tried a number of pages but nothing appeared. Opening another tab and trying again fixed it.

Speaking of extensions... I wonder if there's an effort to archive the legacy extensions. I've backed mine up for TFF (uBlock, No-Google Analytics, NoScript).

 

[AphoticD]

I'll report that Quantum is running really well on my Mac Pro 3,1. It's faster than the previous version and the new icon is nice.

I've mostly ditched Safari (except on the iPhone) and primarily use Firefox / TFF for my Intel + G5 desktops due to the history/bookmarks syncing, so overall this is good. I usually only fire up Safari on the MP to get access to my iPhone's browsing history.

However, on the PowerBooks I find it hard to justify running TFF when LWK is so noticeably quicker.

 

[0388631]

Speaking of extensions... I wonder if there's an effort to archive the legacy extensions. I've backed mine up for TFF (uBlock, No-Google Analytics, NoScript).

There is. You'll have to cross check various sites or forums "example site:example.com" and find it that way. It thought I had bookmarked it myself, so let me know if you find one. uBlock is also WebExtension friendly. I'm on 52.x~ ESR and have no plans on upgrading until 59 ESR which comes out in Spring or Summer 2018. For me, there's no real need to upgrade apart from speed. I want to give them time to release more APIs and help the browser mature. I've tried out the Quantum release in a VM, and it's good, really good. However, I feel it's akin to the early days of Phoenix. I've been using one form or another of Firefox since 2003. I still remember the pains of using it then. In 2005, I made Firefox my default browser. It wasn't perfect, but it was so much better than IE.

 

[eyoungren]

I'll report that Quantum is running really well on my Mac Pro 3,1. It's faster than the previous version and the new icon is nice.

I've mostly ditched Safari (except on the iPhone) and primarily use Firefox / TFF for my Intel + G5 desktops due to the history/bookmarks syncing, so overall this is good. I usually only fire up Safari on the MP to get access to my iPhone's browsing history.

However, on the PowerBooks I find it hard to justify running TFF when LWK is so noticeably quicker.

I've been using Dolphin since iOS 6. You might like it if Mozilla is your thing.

Dolphin is more Firefox than Firefox itself when it comes to iOS.

As to T4Fx/LWK it just depends on what you're doing I guess. If you need speed then hands down LWK. But if you are willing to sacrifice a small amount of speed for easy customization then it's T4Fx.

 

[AphoticD]

I've been using Dolphin since iOS 6. You might like it if Mozilla is your thing.

Dolphin is more Firefox than Firefox itself when it comes to iOS.

As to T4Fx/LWK it just depends on what you're doing I guess. If you need speed then hands down LWK. But if you are willing to sacrifice a small amount of speed for easy customization then it's T4Fx.

I'll take a look at Dolphin, thanks.

 

[sawpits]

I've been using Dolphin since iOS 6. You might like it if Mozilla is your thing.

Dolphin is more Firefox than Firefox itself when it comes to iOS.

As to T4Fx/LWK it just depends on what you're doing I guess. If you need speed then hands down LWK. But if you are willing to sacrifice a small amount of speed for easy customization then it's T4Fx.

Have you tried Puffin? I like it on my Android phone.

 

[eyoungren]

Have you tried Puffin? I like it on my Android phone.

I have and I like it. The only reason really that I stuck with Dolphin was that it has a Firefox addon that works with TenFourFox. You can send web links back and forth between TenFourFox and your iDevice.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Uhhhhh…what you are speaking of is the reason TenFourFox is now in parity release (Parity Release 4 now to be exact) and no longer matching features.

http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2017/02/farewell-to-sha-1-and-hello-to.html

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/tenfourfox-source-parity-were-done-folks.2034696/

Additionally, the new Firefox addons are not compatible with TenFourFox.

In short, this isn't going to happen. Kaiser is already on the move to fix things that make T4Fx more specific to PowerPC and that bring us farther away from Mozilla.

Ah, I see. Well, I hope that whatever he does will help the browser be less resource-hungry.

 

[eyoungren]

Ah, I see. Well, I hope that whatever he does will help the browser be less resource-hungry.

He's always working on that.

But you're never going to get Safari/Leopard Webkit speed with Firefox customization.

 

[YaBe]

Wonder why with all the good programmers around here we do not join forces to help him and or to make a good browser...

 

[swamprock]

Wonder why with all the good programmers around here we do not join forces to help him and or to make a good browser...

It's more than just good programming. Much of the slowness and rendering issues with PPC browsers come down to the websites themselves, with their scripts and other resource-intensive elements. I'd be happy just using mobile websites, if there were more of them. Not every website has a mobile version, unfortunately.

The age of PowerPC Macs and their memory limits also has something to do with it...

 

[YaBe]

The age of PowerPC Macs and their memory limits also has something to do with it...

I partially agree, while PPC is an old architecture and might be slower, there are plenty of "netbooks" today that are way less powerfull than my G5, yet they surf the web just fine with their low power.

Mostly it is a sw issue , the browser itself, the scripts support for sure and yes the sites, those could use optimizations.

There is definetly "low" interest in supporting and getting a proper browser for powerpc, the marketshare is low and mostly "afficionados" so I don't see it happening, at least not if the developer who love the platform join forces.

 

[Dronecatcher]

What we need is a subscription based proxy server service that strips out all the useless script and optimises each web page for retro systems. I know there were such systems years ago for PDA/Palm devices but I'm surprised one doesn't exist now, afterall the retro computer market is very healthy.

 

[weckart]

I partially agree, while PPC is an old architecture and might be slower, there are plenty of "netbooks" today that are way less powerfull than my G5, yet they surf the web just fine with their low power.

Mostly it is a sw issue , the browser itself, the scripts support for sure and yes the sites, those could use optimizations.

Mostly it is a website issue. I am surfing on a MacPro 5,1 with High Sierra and even that is no speed demon with certain websites.

 

[eyoungren]

I partially agree, while PPC is an old architecture and might be slower, there are plenty of "netbooks" today that are way less powerfull than my G5, yet they surf the web just fine with their low power.

When was the last time you saw a 1.6-2.0Ghz PowerMac/PowerBook G4?

Only the G5s and G4s with after-market processors ever approached these speeds.

At lot of these 'netbooks' you mentioned are just powering through the garbage and formatting the page via brute force. Only the G5s can really afford to do that.

The browser is limited by what the processor can do.
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What we need is a subscription based proxy server service that strips out all the useless script and optimises each web page for retro systems. I know there were such systems years ago for PDA/Palm devices but I'm surprised one doesn't exist now, afterall the retro computer market is very healthy.

I'm generally with you, but I have to disagree here.

The problem with these proxy servers is that they usually end up creating an image map of clickable links. That doesn't really do it for me as there are inherent issues in that especially when you involve images and text together.

 

[Dronecatcher]

The problem with these proxy servers is that they usually end up creating an image map of clickable links.

Yes, I know what you mean, there is a DIY proxy solution that's been covered here that does just that with image maps - I was envisaging something more sophisticated, that essentially turned every page into a mobile version but with retained large format layout.

 

[eyoungren]

Yes, I know what you mean, there is a DIY proxy solution that's been covered here that does just that with image maps - I was envisaging something more sophisticated, that essentially turned every page into a mobile version but with retained large format layout.

Yeahhh…I think at that point I'd just hang it up and move on. I spend a lot of time in front of a computer every day and mobile sites aren't really my thing except on a device.

If it gets to the point my Quad cannot handle it then probably all my web browsing will be shifted to my MBP.

I get the idea and what you're shooting for, but this is one compromise in my browsing I'm not willing to make.

That's just me though and my own personal choice. If others truly want that and it can be done I'd be all for it - for them.

 

[AphoticD]

Perhaps we'll see a shift in web development. We're currently on the bloated end of the pendulum's arc, it could possibly swing back to optimization / minimalism becoming popular / in trend again.

Any web developer can create a beautiful and functional website with minimal reliance on CPU time. Just stick to traditional standards and minimize the use of 3rd party frameworks and your website will be both accessible to multiple platforms, fully functional and energy saving, which results in being greener for the planet. (Take some responsibility you money-hungry website owners!)

It is also within the web developer's power to reduce bells and whistles on target browsers / client hardware. If accessibility on older hardware causes any kind of blip on the website owner or developer's radar then it is an easy thing to accommodate for.

I can't imagine there is very much room left for optimization within TenFourFox or Leopard WebKit. They both render quite effectively on older hardware (notably Dual G5+). If there is anything to improve, I would look at optimizing TFF's launch time and the time it takes to create and destroy the browser window and tabs.

The real problem I believe is that TFF has to load it's entire codebase/resources on load which causes the initial launch time to blow out on slower hardware. However, WebKit doesn't suffer from this same issue. Maybe this is because it's tied in closer with the OS X environment, but I could be wrong.

 

[Hrududu]

The new design reminds me of Microsoft Edge on Windows more than anything else. As for porting it to PowerPC Macs, the TenFourFox developer has spoken of the difficulty of porting Firefox versions later than 45, due to their reliance on newer frameworks not present in PPC Mac OS X. TenFourFox is still based on version 45 and it's unlikely that will change anytime soon.

Edit: I'm disappointed to see the new version 57 no longer works properly on Intel OS X 10.8.5 running on my 2006 iMac 6,1. Firefox 56 and earlier do (though Mozilla hasn't officially supported 10.8.5 since ESR 45).

I never had any luck getting 56 to work on Mountain Lion. Currently running 55.0.4 on my ML systems. Every version of 56 was nothing but crashed tabs. Did you do anything special to make it work?

 

[redheeler]

I never had any luck getting 56 to work on Mountain Lion. Currently running 55.0.4 on my ML systems. Every version of 56 was nothing but crashed tabs. Did you do anything special to make it work?

Ah, well to be honest I never tried version 56 myself. Thought I saw someone report it was working, but that might've been Firefox 55 they were referring to.

Ever since I discovered Seamonkey, I've been using that instead of Firefox for performance reasons. GUI is a lot lighter than the one in Firefox. But the Gecko version is the same one found in Firefox ESR 52.4, so it too might start to have problems once the newer Gecko from Firefox 56 or 57 is used.