Firmware Update Speculation And A Rant

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by sanford, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. sanford macrumors 65816

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    #1
    It's the middle of the night in California, so there's no guarantee we won't get the firmware update today, but...

    After reading the details of the iPhone launch in the UK and the 9th November on-sale date, there was absolutely no reason to hold off the firmware update for the UK announcement. And it's obvious the new firmware is ready to go, as it's what all the pretty obviously production iPhones at the UK event were running, complete with the as yet unavailable in the UK on any device iTunes WiFi Store.

    The only thing I can think of that's holding up the firmware update is Apple trying to break anySIM and/or other unlocks. I too very much did not like the exclusive, contract nature of the iPhone with no subsidy, but after spending some time checking out the iPhone, I decided the trade-off was worth it. But unless we do get the update today, all this unlocking nonsense is holding up legitimate iPhone users from getting new features that even the stripped-down iPod touch already has, in the States just so you can use the iPhone on Tmobile with somewhat cheaper voice plans but double the cost for the unlimited data plans, while you lose a lot of features that make the iPhone unique. We were Tmobile customers for years, and they're fine, but they're nothing so special you can't switch carriers to get an iPhone.

    And for all the "I have to unlock" because I'm in HK or Milan or Edmonton or wherever and the iPhone isn't offered here yet crowd. No, you don't have to unlock. In the States we miss out on all kinds of products and services, some of them quite superior to stateside alternatives, that are not offered here. You don't have to have an iPhone until it is made available in your local region. And with an iPod touch you can get a lot of the iPhone's features now, anyway.

    So knock it off already. As it is I have to update iTunes every other day because people are hacking away after freaking out having to pay 99 cents for ringtones, which is like US$1.50 less than other ringtone services and you actually get songs you want, no that AxelF Frog nonsense or what have you. There are plenty of phones that lock ringtones to the provider service and their are plenty that do not. Go buy one that does not.

    I'm sure all this hacking and unlocking and making free ringtones business is great fun for those of you spending all day living in your parents' basements cleaning your bong collections, but there are those of us who are paying for a device, software and services that we'd like to be able to use and for which we'd like to expediently get new features via updates and not have to babysit with iTunes software updates to close up exploits.

    I'm all for creative use of technology, even of proprietary devices, but you don't have to release your efforts to the public and cause problems for people whose time is a bit more constrained than yours. And if just have to release your hacking into the wild, Linux is widely available on many devices for you to do just that. My stars even Sony allows you to easily install Linux on a PlayStation 3.

    But otherwise, please stop gumming up the works for the rest of us with your sloppy, mostly useless garbage efforts to break just for the sake of breaking.

    UPDATE: I do think that now they've shown off all the features included in the 1.1.1 update, break anySIM or not, they pretty much have to release the update stateside today or current customers are going to start to get tweaky not getting the new features that are so obviously already ready to go.
     
  2. VoodooDaddy macrumors 65816

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    May 14, 2003
    #2
    Give me a break. You are blaming people that are unlocking phones for Apple not releasing an update?? Why not point the finger at Apple? All they seem concerned with is patching iTunes so people cant make their own ringtones.


    So theyve shown off all that will be included in 1.1.1. Whats that, iTunes wifi store, an international keyboard, and a new calc icon?? If these insignificant updates are the ones that you are clamoring for then your time ISNT as valuable as you want all of us to believe.
     
  3. sanford thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #3
    I want the WiFi Store. That I will use. I could care less about MMS or iChat or what all else everyone is asking after, although I hope they get it if they want it. How wanting the convenience of the WiFi Store reflects on the value of my time I have no idea. You have no idea about my time. Between work and family, I'm usually awake and going 20 or 21 hours a day six or seven days a week. I don't work 9 to 5 with a nice little lunch hour then off to home and flop out out on my sofa and watch TV for four hours before shuffling off to bed for the full 8 hours. Perhaps you do, perhaps you don't.

    This is not about free and fair elections or revolution against a totalitarian government. This is about a phone and *ringtones*, for God's sake. If you don't agree with the way the product is sold and supported then make an ethical stand and don't support the company selling it. That means don't buy from them. Don't buy the product anyway, break into it and then release your garbage to the world, complicating the lives of legitimate customers. It's a proprietary product sold under a specific set of terms. You don't have any specific rights in this case, not in the States, anyway.


     
  4. cgray24 macrumors member

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    #4
    dude seriously. You were never promised any major update when you bought your phone. The only thing promised to you at this point is the WIFI itunes music store. You need to accept the possibility that Apple may not introduce anything major to V1 of the phone, only maintenance releases.

    You knew what you were buying when you bought it, im afraid if you got you iPhone for what it could be and not what it is, you wasted alot of money
     
  5. Roy Hobbs macrumors 68000

    Roy Hobbs

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    #5
    Read Sanford's post again, he said ALL he want sin the Wifi store.
     
  6. cgray24 macrumors member

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    #6
    Your assumptions and speculation are totally unfounded and you have NO evidence to support ANYTHING. Preventing ringtones work arounds is in the itunes development not the iPhones, and those are two different areas of development.

    You have no idea what bugs may be in their current firmware or whats stoping it from being release. Simple as that. You just dont know. Just because they had demos at the UK press release doesnt mean there isnt bugs they want to fix before shipping off to the masses, or they may be waiting on some other event. Trust me, apple has this planned out, and im afraid they have a bigger picture to look at here, not just making you happy.

    Stop spreading unfounded nonsense.
     
  7. VoodooDaddy macrumors 65816

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    #7
    You said it yourself in your first post:

    Then you took the liberty to give us a blow by blow of your day, like we care. Basically you are saying your time is more valuable than the rest of us. Maybe it is, since we are all "cleaning our bongs in our parent's basement."

    :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  8. lampcov macrumors member

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    #8
    Sanford,

    While I respect your point of view, I do find it odd that if you are as busy as you claim to be, you sure have a lot of time to post on this forum. You've posted in 20 different threads in the last 24 hours, and at all hours of the day, 11am, 12 pm, and in the Firmware update thread at 2:04 am (All Times CDT). I guess you really are up 21 hours a day, working quite hard from the looks of a "posted by sanford" search.

    At any rate, as a product manager for a software company I'll tell you this. Apple is not delaying their software updates due to the activities of the 3rd party developers. They have a well established product roadmap for the iPhone and updates/release are based on the schedule. Bug fixes for found issues are handled outside of that scope, yes, but rest assured Apple is not sitting around, monitoring forums and letting the actions of "hackers" determine their product roadmap any more than your whining about their choice of software release dates is impacting the schedule.

    While I do agree that Apple does take the actions of the "hackers" into consideration when reviewing security measures that need to be updated to keep the platform "secure" (in their opinion), it is NOT the driving force behind iPhone development.

    You'll get your WiFi store, and any other updates when Apple is good and ready to release them. These dates are 1) well established in advance, 2) driven by revenue, and 3) driven by marketing. So, if you're not happy with the timing and really want to have an impact, apply for a job with apple in Product Development or Marketing. Then maybe what you say will have an impact. Until then, your position is just as irrelevant to Apple as mine is.
     
  9. Mark Scheuern macrumors member

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    Jul 31, 2007
    Location:
    Michigan
    #9
    Regardless of the reason for the delay (if indeed that's what it is) of the new firmware, I do find it a bit annoying that I have to install a new version of iTunes just a few days after one upgrade simply because some people who bought a multi-hundred dollar phone need to steal ringtones rather than pay a very reasonable $1 each for them.
     
  10. Chupa Chupa macrumors G5

    Chupa Chupa

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    Jul 16, 2002
    #10
    I suspect Apple is using the Touch, which has far fewer units out there since it just shipped, to gently test the wi-fi store. The last thing Apple needs it to release iPhone firmware to 1m users who then instantly test out the wi-fi store and crash it or something from the sudden surge. Once Apple sees that the store is operating as it should with a fair amount of Touches in use it will release the iPhone firmware.
     
  11. Compile 'em all macrumors 601

    Compile 'em all

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    #11
    :rolleyes: With all due respect, who are you to dictate what I can or can't buy?
     
  12. sanford thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #12
    Thanks, kvan, for actually reading the post before commenting on it.

    I'd like to clarify that I have no problem with people, for private use, tinkering with whatever they please. A lot of innovation comes from tinkering. But intentionally bypassing the locks on a product and then releasing that to the public causing the product's manufacturer to spend time and money dealing with tinkering, thereby burdening their target market with tiny little software updates and delays in feature additions is inconsiderate in the extreme.

    This is not 1978. Computers and communications devices at the personal level are no longer limited to the realm of hobbyists' toys. They are tools people use to maintain their careers and quality of life. They can also be hobbyist toys, but just as mainstream users should respect a hobbyist's interest in tinkering with these devices, the hobbyists should respect the more traditional users by limiting their tinkering in such a way that it does not affect the mainstream users. For example, ringtones: if you've figured out how to create free ringtones, go for it, but you don't have to immediately disseminate that information to the free world like you've just saved the planet for imminent destruction.

    The other problem is the profiteering idiot, Ambrosia Software being a good example. They released a ringtone software program for a fee that they swore would work without modification across updates to the iPhone and its supporting software. What happens? First update to iTunes comes along and breaks it. And Apple wasn't even *trying* to break it; it was just the way they wrote to the ringtone directory.

    Assume you're an iPhone tinkerer. I certainly wouldn't want Apple to come up with a way to permanently lock you out of learning the ins and outs of the devices and making for your personal use modifications to satisfy your own needs or interests. You wouldn't think doing that to stop people from changing their iPhones for their own personal use was fair just to protect me, the more mainstream customer. But by the same rule, I'd appreciate it if you'd keep the results of your tinkering to yourself so I don't have to deal with the negative results of your tricks and modifications.
     
  13. Sobe macrumors 68000

    Sobe

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    #13
    Mark, it's the honest folks who always pay the price. I don't like it either, but C'est la vie.
     
  14. VoodooDaddy macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Who's stealing ringtones?? Taking your own music and doing with it as you please isnt stealing anything.

    I very seriously doubt that people using a work around to install their own ringtones is holding anything up.
     
  15. VoodooDaddy macrumors 65816

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    #15
    Get a grip man. How is you not having iTunes wifi store 1) affecting your career or 2) quality of life? You are talking about everyone else's priorities being out of whack, look in the mirror.
     
  16. Sobe macrumors 68000

    Sobe

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    #16
    Go write some music and rely on it to put food on your table and your kids through college and pay your mortgage, then tell me if it is stealing or not.
     
  17. eddiebrock macrumors member

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    #17
    Seriously, the "quality of your life" is being affected because you don't have WiFi Itunes?
     
  18. lampcov macrumors member

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    #18
    Like that "hackers", hate them, believe that they are what drives Apple's schedules, that's up to you, but don't forget that many of the technological innovations you enjoy today were built on the shoulders of people modifying an existing product, concept, or idea to enhance its abilities. We see this when major corporations purchase a smaller company who has enhanced their product in some "3rd party" way.

    In some cases this will impact the "casual" or "honest" users, I am not so blind to say it won't, but at the end of the day, the benefits out weigh the perceived inconveniences. Also we're talking about people developing positive applications in this particular instance, not software to pirate DVDs or video games, not malicious viruses, etc.

    This is the community that we choose to operate in by being on the bleeding edge of technology. I'm sure that there are more people out there with iPhones that are blissfully unaware that 3rd party apps exist, software updates are issued, and that an iTunes WiFi store is coming than are aware of it.

    Ironically, the people closest to these situations and seem to be complaining the most are those that should understand and tolerate it the most.

    Again, I'm not taking sides, but I think there's a middle ground that we all fail to look at from time to time. Myself included.
     
  19. Mark Scheuern macrumors member

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    #19
    That's the point. It's not "your" music. You have a license for a specific use and a relicensing is required for the ringtone use.
     
  20. sanford thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #20
    During the past 24 hours I've written about 2,500 words of fresh copy and revised another 5,000, plus taken care of two young children all day long, etc., etc. I can manage to do more than one thing at once, and often when I'm working through the middle of the night, I'll take little focus breaks as they stretch overall the amount of productive time I can put in. It's like stepping outside for five minutes in the sun, which I do as well, during the day.

    Wow, you're a product manager for a software company? How coincidental because I've in the past been a product manager for a software company. I know all about product roadmaps, and the dictates of marketing versus the goals and timelines of engineering. I also know that third-party mucking about with our software, mucking about we felt we needed to address, could have, and likely should have, delayed our planned release schedule for product updates.

    Since the status of the firmware update and the cause of delay, if indeed there is a delay at all -- I admit there may be a hard date they just haven't yet reached: that's why the title of this thread includes the word "speculation" -- is presently unknown at this time, I'll use the rapid-fire iTunes updates as an example. These were almost certainly designed and released to thwart the ringtone workarounds. As another poster has mentioned it's annoying as hell to see yet another iTunes update pop up because not only will people who spent *thousands* on an iPhone and service contract not drop a buck for a ringtone, they have to, as quickly as possible, let everyone else across the world know how to get around paying, too, rather just keeping it to themselves.


     
  21. sanford thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #21
    Ringtones are fair use of existing legitimately acquired statutory license in the States. There's even a court decision establishing such.
     
  22. sanford thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Agreed. I think a lot of the look Ma! I hacked the iPhone stuff that Apple is dealing with was released to the public out of pure egotism and/or stick-it-to-the-Man ideology. Hacking the iPhone to create some entirely different and unexpected use for the product would qualify as welcome innovation, even if I did suffer for it to some degree -- Apple-unsupported 3rd party native apps that don't unlock the carrier exclusivity or bypass fee-based services may be trying to do just that. But mucking with the iPhone to save a dollar on a ringtone and then announcing this scheme to the world, not innovation, merely annoyance.

    Oh, p.s., sorry for the "Wow, you're a..." sarcasm in one of the posts above. I'm tired -- obviously, from your research ;-) But you're also expressing a reasonable attitude toward this debate and didn't deserve a snap.
     
  23. sanford thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Doesn't affect my career. Could, though, if I was in the music business. Can legitimately affect quality of life, as I didn't write "standard of living" which implies things more like nutrition and good medical care. I meant quality of life, as in enjoyment thereof.

    I didn't say iPhone hackers' priorities were out of whack. If hacking is your thing, go for it. I'm against *releasing to the public* things that bypass certain fee-based services on which Apple based their revenue model for the iPhone -- because those things Apple has to deal with meaning ultimately I have to waste time dealing with them.
     
  24. Mydel macrumors 6502a

    Mydel

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  25. Mark Scheuern macrumors member

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    #25
    I'm a photographer and not a musician so I'm not very familiar with that side of intellectual property laws, even if there are some similarities (rights-managed photographs have to be re-licensed for uses not in the original contract, for example, and dealing with people who are unaware of copyright laws in general is a continuing problem), but I think that's unclear if you're referring to the RIAA decision. This article, for instance, says that the ruling dealt with the RIAA's distribution of fees from ringtone licenses and not with fair use. In any case, it's seems that Apple needs to take care to make reasonable efforts to collect licensing fees and therefore had to patch iTunes
     

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