Firmware Update Speculation And A Rant

[sanford]

Instead, you tell me what products I can and can't buy and what I'm allowed to do with the things I own. Thank goodness we avoided being ridiculous!

No, you're missing my point. I'm not telling you anything. Apple and AT&T are telling what they think you can and cannot buy and do. I don't care what you buy or what you do with it. If it violates Apple's license, and you face legal liability for that -- and this is certainly a gray area, not at all a hard fact -- then that's your problem. I don't care what you do one bit. Until it interferes with what I can do. Then I care. Assuming unlocks are delaying updates to my iPhone, and assuming you are distributing or using unlocks, then you are interfering with what I can do with my iPhone. That I care about and, sorry, but if you're interfering with the full benefit of what I purchased with my money then I hope they clamp down on you so that you can't use it at all, in favor of allowing me my full benefit.

And I'm sure you feel the same way, so that's why this is a circular argument. The real targets of my ire are the idiots who distributed the unlocks to the general public, not with the people who took advantage of what was made available to them.

 

[Mydel]

The deal is with the iPhone that you accept certain terms when you buy one. I didn't like the terms at first myself and waited almost two months to buy an iPhone, when normally although I wouldn't have lined up to get one I would have likely bought one in the first couple days, while I mulled over whether I thought the device was worth accepting the terms. I had numerous conversations with AT&T to suss out their customer service level. I spent quite a bit time with testing out the iPhone as best I could with display models. I made the decision to buy and accepted the terms. Honestly, I still don't like the terms on their own merits and declare them fairly consumer-unfriendly. But I decided that for me it was worth it.

You don't have to accept the terms. You don't have to buy an iPhone. In some cases you may not be able to buy an iPhone. A poster above mentions that he lives in Idaho with no current or announced AT&T service in his region. So he says he doesn't feel bad about violating the terms of the deal, no matter how that negatively affects me. But there are things I can't do or make use of because I don't live where he does. Does that give me the right to restrict the use of the benefits of his choice of place to live? Can I tell him just how many weekends a season he may snow ski, or how long he has to wait into the season to go skiing just because I can't ski where I live at all? Obviously, that's ridiculous. But he's telling me it's not. He's telling me that it's okay for him to make use of something, anySIM, that is the cause, in my opinion, of damage done to my ability to enjoy the experience and benefits of something that happens to be accessible to me but not to him. He's telling me I need to wait extra time for what I want so he can have what has not yet been made available to him. Give me a break. And the argument makes no sense, because so what if I wait a few weeks, Apple breaks anySIM an then he *still* can't use an iPhone.

The only condition I have to accept is paying 399$ for that toy. Thats it!! Everything else i up to me. I dont know what problem you have with that. You like to be with AT&T for two years- its your choice. I dont like it. And Im taking the risk of bricking my phone. I'm not gonna run crying to Apple store asking for fix or replacement. I understand ramification of my actions. Yes it's that easy. All I'm gonna do is stay away from 1.1.1 for now. And by the way I really like my ringtones. If you like Marimba its up to you

 

[Sobe]

The only condition I have to accept is paying 399$ for that toy. Thats it!! Everything else i up to me. I dont know what problem you have with that. You like to be with AT&T for two years- its your choice. I dont like it. And Im taking the risk of bricking my phone. I'm not gonna run crying to Apple store asking for fix or replacement. I understand ramification of my actions. Yes it's that easy. All I'm gonna do is stay away from 1.1.1 for now. And by the way I really like my ringtones. If you like Marimba its up to you

Yeah if only there were a quick and convenient and cheap way to make a ringtone for the music I own...Apple should get on that asap.

 

[theliksta]

A UK perspective

Love

 

[ldhilljr]

No, you're missing my point. I'm not telling you anything. Apple and AT&T are telling what they think you can and cannot buy and do. I don't care what you buy or what you do with it. If it violates Apple's license, and you face legal liability for that -- and this is certainly a gray area, not at all a hard fact -- then that's your problem. I don't care what you do one bit. Until it interferes with what I can do. Then I care. Assuming unlocks are delaying updates to my iPhone, and assuming you are distributing or using unlocks, then you are interfering with what I can do with my iPhone. That I care about and, sorry, but if you're interfering with the full benefit of what I purchased with my money then I hope they clamp down on you so that you can't use it at all, in favor of allowing me my full benefit.

And I'm sure you feel the same way, so that's why this is a circular argument. The real targets of my ire are the idiots who distributed the unlocks to the general public, not with the people who took advantage of what was made available to them.

You have a very BIG mistake in your reasoning. Apple and ATT are NOT telling us what we can buy or do with our iPhones. There is NO license agreement that you sign when you purchase an iPhone that REQUIRES you to use ATT service. It's just not there. Your assumption that it is is pure fiction. Have they tried to set it up to "rope" everyone into using the iPhone the way they want to? Yes. Do they have the ability to legally force you to? No.

I hate this idea that anyone who unlocked their iPhone is doing something wrong or objectionable to people who haven't unlocked their iPhone. It's baloney. And the idea that I have some obligation, duty, courtesy or otherwise to the non-unlocked community to cease and desist so that you might get updates sooner is not only baseless, but offensive.

I'll turn the argument around. You bought an iPhone that could rather easily be hacked and modified. There are no legal or other restrictions that prevent this from happening, and from a practical standpoint, it is impossible to stop it from happening. It's actually quite legal to do it. If you didn't want to wait a few extra days or weeks to get software or firmware updates, you should have purchased a phone that wasn't so attractive to hack or modify.

Unlocked iPhone users are legitimate, legal iPhone users. We have every much a right to use the iPhone the way we choose to as you have the right to use your iPhone in the manner of your own choosing. This is no different than two people walking down the same street. We both have a right to be there, and the fact that we may both have to move a little so that we can pass is just a fact of common existence. But your view seems to be that unlocked iPhone users should be tossed into the street or banned from the road, and that's just mean-spirited and selfish.

 

[sanford]

No, my view is that how I use my iPhone does not affect you and I expect how you use your iPhone not to affect me. To use your walking down the street analogy, when I pass you, I swiftly sidestep and your pace slows not one bit. But you are grabbing my collar from behind and holding me in place so that you may use the street as you see fit.

(The only agreement that legally prevents you from unlocking your iPhone is the SLA, the enforceability of which is in question, probably so far as until it is tested in court. I did not mean to imply otherwise.)

You have a very BIG mistake in your reasoning. Apple and ATT are NOT telling us what we can buy or do with our iPhones. There is NO license agreement that you sign when you purchase an iPhone that REQUIRES you to use ATT service. It's just not there. Your assumption that it is is pure fiction. Have they tried to set it up to "rope" everyone into using the iPhone the way they want to? Yes. Do they have the ability to legally force you to? No.

I hate this idea that anyone who unlocked their iPhone is doing something wrong or objectionable to people who haven't unlocked their iPhone. It's baloney. And the idea that I have some obligation, duty, courtesy or otherwise to the non-unlocked community to cease and desist so that you might get updates sooner is not only baseless, but offensive.

I'll turn the argument around. You bought an iPhone that could rather easily be hacked and modified. There are no legal or other restrictions that prevent this from happening, and from a practical standpoint, it is impossible to stop it from happening. It's actually quite legal to do it. If you didn't want to wait a few extra days or weeks to get software or firmware updates, you should have purchased a phone that wasn't so attractive to hack or modify.

Unlocked iPhone users are legitimate, legal iPhone users. We have every much a right to use the iPhone the way we choose to as you have the right to use your iPhone in the manner of your own choosing. This is no different than two people walking down the same street. We both have a right to be there, and the fact that we may both have to move a little so that we can pass is just a fact of common existence. But your view seems to be that unlocked iPhone users should be tossed into the street or banned from the road, and that's just mean-spirited and selfish.

 

[lowbelly]

No, my view is that how I use my iPhone does not affect you and I expect how you use your iPhone not to affect me. To use your walking down the street analogy, when I pass you, I swiftly sidestep and your pace slows not one bit. But you are grabbing my collar from behind and holding me in place so that you may use the street as you see fit.

Except that your analogy implies that we are purposely targeting you just to be malicious. It's more like I'm a really fat guy so passing me is more of an inconvenience for you than it is for me, and then you're telling me "Hey fatty why don't you lose some weight, I'm trying to walk here", and I'm like "Look, I retain water, it's not my fault, and frankly I'm kind of sensitive about it"...

 

[sanford]

Except that your analogy implies that we are purposely targeting you just to be malicious. It's more like I'm a really fat guy so passing me is more of an inconvenience for you than it is for me, and then you're telling me "Hey fatty why don't you lose some weight, I'm trying to walk here", and I'm like "Look, I retain water, it's not my fault, and frankly I'm kind of sensitive about it"...

Thanks for injecting some much-needed humor into this thread. Anyway, circular argument. Whose desires supersede another's? You think yours, I think mine. I doubt we'll ever agree because we both have points not covered by statutory law or good ethics.

 

[DeathChill]

I'm not entirely sure what Sanford is even talking about. The bug that allows for the software unlock is easily patchable so it's not the bug holding up the update.

I guarantee that the update has already patched the problem; something else is most likely holding it up.

 

[sanford]

It's not the one exploit. I wouldn't be surprised if some iPhone *intern( software engineer from Carnegie Mellon broke that fifteen minutes after it was out, maybe even *before* it was out. I think it's the recursive hunt for all possible future exploits -- not all of which they'll find and close, anyway.

I'm not entirely sure what Sanford is even talking about. The bug that allows for the software unlock is easily patchable so it's not the bug holding up the update.

I guarantee that the update has already patched the problem; something else is most likely holding it up.

 

[jamesarm97]

Is it just me or would it be nice to have a config option to have the Home / Power on button (when pressed from the off state) take you back to the home screen? I find myself always having to press the home button after turning on because I rarely go back to the same screen I left off at. If I made a call, then the phone turned off and I want to go to the web I have to press power / home, then home again, then Safari.

Another option I don't really like is always having to press the 'All Conversations' or what ever button that is when I go into SMS. I usually am either going to read the last received message or going to send a new message to someone. It takes an extra step the way it is. Seems to stay on the last conversation you were having. I think they can tweak it a little and have it more intuitive or smarter. If I just received a new SMS, take me to that screen so I can read it automatically. If I was on a conversation, take me back to the main SMS screen when I press SMS so I can start a new one. If I wanted to go back to the current conversation it would normally be because I received a new SMS reply and wanted to see it or reply in which the case above would happen anyway.

- James

 

[DeathChill]

It's not the one exploit. I wouldn't be surprised if some iPhone *intern( software engineer from Carnegie Mellon broke that fifteen minutes after it was out, maybe even *before* it was out. I think it's the recursive hunt for all possible future exploits -- not all of which they'll find and close, anyway.

Then they'd be doing the same thing regardless of the hacks. Just because there are hacks available doesn't mean that Apple wouldn't have to spend the same time amount patching as if there wasn't.

 

[ldhilljr]

But you are grabbing my collar from behind and holding me in place so that you may use the street as you see fit.

I am actually doing no such thing. You are free to walk on the street. Your argument suggests that my use of an unlocked iPhone is preventing you from doing something wrong. Grabbing a collar from behind would be wrong. Using an unlocked iPhone is not wrong. So the analogy doesn't work.