Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The issue is the 5th amendment in the bill of rights, which basically says you can't be forced to testify against yourself. (That includes providing password to your devices and/or accounts) Just because someone has a warrant to search your house for physical evidence, doesn't mean they have a warrant to search you brain for thoughts and memories.

Take for example an off-shore bank account. With a search warrant for your house, they can't put you in front of your computer and force you to log into your bank's website. Instead they would also need to get a warrant for the bank and get your records that way. (although, depending on the country, the bank isn't required to comply)

However, now that our physical bodies are our passwords (fingers/faces), it is an area of the law that should be defined better. Is forcing someone to look into their Face ID camera or put their finger on a Touch ID scanner considered forcing them to testify against themselves? If so, and I believe it is, it is unconstitutional.
Well said, and totally agree. Amen, Ammon!
 
This got me to thinking. Why doesn't Apple add an option for an emergency wipe password? That way if someone is making you give up the pin to an iPhone. You can give them the wipe pin. Then the phone will immediately wipe the encryption key, perform a crash reboot to immediately clear the RAM then start the factory reset process.

And then you’ll be guilty of destroying evidence. And if you didn’t have anything to be guilty of before, you will after that.

This is not a bad idea for situations where your phone might get stolen, but such a move could also get you killed too.

I’d actually like to see the 5-click process also limit the passcode attempt to 1-3 tries before wiping the phone, and disable USB if it doesn’t already. It still might get you killed, but easier to fight the destroying evidence charge due to nervous fingers. It could result in some accidental erasures, but people presumably are using 5-clicks because it’s a dire situation that might warrant it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rjohnstone
If with a warrant to search a house one is forced to let the police in, eventually things might be seized, why someone letting the police in a phone should be any different? Phones, computer or whatever. A judge warrant is a warrant.
Err, no. You cannot be compelled into a self-incriminating action, such as opening a door. You CAN be compelled however, to not actively attempt to evict law enforment from your premises once they’ve gained entry.
[doublepost=1538406935][/doublepost]People in the US sometimes not realize how good they have in regards to law that force complying. In a lot of countries all over the world, on a daily basis, courts are tasked with evaluating how ”believable” your claims of forgetting the password are and throwing people in jail until compliance.
 
Basically this is why you shouldn't ever use Face ID or Touch ID or Windows Hello or anything like that if you care about security (and also why all the governments are so happy about these new "security" measures)

If you just have a strong password, it will take the government quite a bit of effort to crack it, interrogations etc, which obviously will require a lot of permissions and pushing the law.

On the other hand, forcing you to place your finger on a scanner? Or scanning your face? That hardly takes anything and it's pretty hard to argue against your rights being violated since there were no force or interrogation techniques applied.
Exactly, sacrificing security for convenience is a choice we all make. Had this person chosen to use the 6 digit passcode instead we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
If the cops only asked and he cooperated, then I’m not sure how this is even newsworthy.

Anyone can ask anything they want.

IDD. I read the same story from another site that said the authorities requested the unlock and he consented. Not that he was ‘forced’.
 
One can not be forced to testify against their self interest. Seems to me that giving the correct facial expression to unlock the phone is using the conscious mind and testifying. Giving a fingerprint to unlock just requires your brain to keep you alive.
 
Sigh. This is so wrong. And it would be much easier to get excited about this particular case if child pornography wasn't so much more wrong.
 
Basically this is why you shouldn't ever use Face ID or Touch ID or Windows Hello or anything like that if you care about security (and also why all the governments are so happy about these new "security" measures)

If you just have a strong password, it will take the government quite a bit of effort to crack it, interrogations etc, which obviously will require a lot of permissions and pushing the law.

On the other hand, forcing you to place your finger on a scanner? Or scanning your face? That hardly takes anything and it's pretty hard to argue against your rights being violated since there were no force or interrogation techniques applied.
Touch ID is different, as it could be programmed to require a passcode after a number of failed attempts and you just use a finger that isn't registered several times or accidentally turn the phone off and then a passcode will be required.
 
Gawd, there is such a simple solution to the face unlock: use a Mr Bean face for your facial recognition unlock.
I don't have a phone with face recognition so I can't confirm if this would do the trick or not.
 
This got me to thinking. Why doesn't Apple add an option for an emergency wipe password? That way if someone is making you give up the pin to an iPhone. You can give them the wipe pin. Then the phone will immediately wipe the encryption key, perform a crash reboot to immediately clear the RAM then start the factory reset process.
I agree with this one and it should use a secure erase method that prevents recovery. But noy only a password, a secure wipe biometric combination of fingerprints.
 
If a person who commit a criminal activity by any means then yes i would agree that Law/police enforcement must have every rights/power to sized of your possessor (notebook,media,mobile phone and computer) for the investigation.
 
Last edited:
Is there a way to get your phone to lock without triggering an emergency call (I know you can cancel it, but it still makes the noise)?
If you have the iPhone X, press and hold the side button and one of the volume buttons until you feel haptic feedback and the shutdown screen. Then let go. You’ll see a screen that says your passcode is required to unlock iPhone.
 
Privacy is a thing of the past, unfortunately.

Big tech and government seem to go hand in hand.

So you support criminals, especially child predators. Cool.

If you aren’t doing anything wrong nobody is going to wanna get into your phone.
 
Huh ? How's even possible for such a rule to exist ? We're talking about two different methods to access the same device/information. Under which logic only one of the two methods is protected by law against self-incrimination and not the other ? So, if one uses passcode is entitled to deny to unlock his/her device but in any other case government has the right to demand to a person to self-incriminate ?
You can tell anyone you've forgotten a password; you can't say "don't point it at my face"
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.