First Developer Intel Macs (Photos)

[Lacero]

Apple has problems with IBM advancing the PowerPC and producing enough of them to give Apple a very good image in the processing power area. Sure...the PowerPC might have a lot more room to grow (and other such arguments), but if you can't get them fast enough for demand...you have a problem. And with Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony looking to the 970 and the Cell for their new consoles...supply wasn't looking better for Apple.

 

[macorama]

I just hope they don't start looking more and more like normal PCs.

I don't think there's much chance of that!

 

[jrath1]

You do know that a virus can format a hard drive without being able to read the indivual files, right?. Also, a clever virus writer can create a virus to delete critical system files without even being able to read them (example, by erasing random sectors on disk, overwriting random sectors of the disk, etc). Would be a tough virus to write as it would have to be written in a low level language.

You know that a virus can be transfered from your keyboard into your body. Agent Smith did this with a telephone.

There is no spoon!

P.S. I also heard that when you start up your new mac with the intel inside the blueman group comes out and sings a song.

 

[AidenShaw]

except that there's no cache

Apple's faster FSB speed would also effect access to fast cache memory, so it's not necessarily wasted capacity.

Apple doesn't have L3 cache on the FSB, so that's not an argument.

PPC970 cache is on-chip, running at chip frequency - just like all the current Intel chips.

 

[Morky]

Now, wait a minute. How exactly would running hardware on the same *platform* not competitive? If Apple hardware, starting in 2006, is using the same version of Pentium M and Centrino boards that Intel makes for everyone else, wouldn't that mean that for once there's a level playing field? We're two years from the G5 release, and we all know how many illusions were shattered there (it's a great chip, but it hasn't advanced like the rest of the industry). Now the emphasis is going to be on OS X as an OS. Will it actually be better than Windows *on the same hardware*? That's the question. And in that respect, OS X can *definitely* compete with Windows XP.

That's not what he meant. He meant that from a price perspective a dual boot Mac/Windows Dell would beat a Mac/Windows Apple. Since only Apple will make machines that can run both OSes, it has a strong competetive advantage in the PC market.

I agree that it will be fun to see performance comparisons on the same hardware. I think it may be eye-opening for some Mac users. Still, the experience isn't all about raw performance. I use both Mac and Windows every day and when I sit down at my Mac it's like a breath of fresh air. I wish I could use one at work. Maybe soon I can now!

 

[AidenShaw]

IBM isn't making PowerPCs for Microsoft

And with Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony looking to the 970 and the Cell for their new consoles...supply wasn't looking better for Apple.

TSMC will be fabbing the Xbox 360 CPU - and it's not a 970.

Sony's building its own fab to build the Cell (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200304/03-0421E/), although pilot production will start at Fishkill.

Nintendo isn't using a PPC970 either - way too hot and expensive. No idea where it's being fabbed.

 

[steeldrivingjon]

If the Windows side an see the Mac volumes/drives, the viruses CAN cause problems--they could write data to that hard drive. While they would have to know about Mac OS X to be intelligent, you don't have to be intelligent to erase or write crap all over that drive. Does anyone know enough about Window to know if that could be an issue? This kind of issue, even if it could happen, would pale in comparision to the havoc a "normal" Window's virus can cause (e-mail destruction, taking over your computer to forward attacks on other computers, etc).

I think the main threat now isn't data destruction, but data theft, where the virus or trojan searches your disk for valuable information like credit card #'s or identity data, then sends it to home base.

The people who write these things probably wouldn't bother trying to search HFS volumes. There are plenty of Windows targets, and business users (a prime target) will more likely be using Windows only.

If, as people say, the Mac doesn't have security problems because there aren't enough Mac users for it to be worth targeting, then there definitely won't be anyone targeting Mac users who also run Windows on their machines.

 

[dongmin]

My one question: How hard will it be to get WINE running on this thing? With ties to Aqua?

(For those who don't know: WINE is a Windows compatablity layer for Linux. Open Source, basically all it does is map OS calls over. The end result is you can run Windows code with no emulation. It won't work on a PPC based Mac because it needs the same general architecture, but it might work on this thing...)

Anyone care to speculate which of the following will be the best solution for running a few windows apps on top of OS X?

-VPC
-WINE
-VMware

I'd like to avoid Windows as much as possible but there are few apps (AutoCAD, 3DStudioMax, Rhino) I absolutely need to run. Which would be the best virtualization solution if these apps require the use of the graphics card?

Edit: It'd also be nice if someone can address the security issue regarding these environments.

 

[slu]

*throws up in mouth*

Dude, this is getting a bit old.

 

[ender78]

I think the main threat now isn't data destruction, but data theft, where the virus or trojan searches your disk for valuable information like credit card #'s or identity data, then sends it to home base.

I don't know anyone that stores their credit card data , social security numbers and such on their hard drive. If they do, they should leave it in a file named steal_me.txt on their desktop. One may as well mail their credit card and or debit card with PIN to the thieves.

 

[DStaal]

Anyone care to speculate which of the following will be the best solution for running a few windows apps on top of OS X?

-VPC
-WINE
-VMware

I'd like to avoid Windows as much as possible but there are few apps (AutoCAD, 3DStudioMax, Rhino) I absolutely need to run. Which would be the best virtualization solution if these apps require the use of the graphics card?

Edit: It'd also be nice if someone can address the security issue regarding these environments.

We'll have to wait and see, really. VPC and VMware both do some emulation, which will increase security and decrease speed. Depending on how they are written, they may or may not be able to use graphics acceleration.

WINE would be lowest security, but should be the fastest, since it just runs the app with minimal remaping. (Really, it is the same idea as Carbon on Cocoa...) Which should mean that it is fast and allows full access to the system (or at the same access as any other program).

But in the end, all of these will be optimized as much as the programmers can. If VPC is well optimized, it may well be faster than a poorly optimized WINE, and have more support. It's just up to what level of programming support they each have.

Likely WINE will (eventually) not support everything, but will support enough to run most applications. Graphics card support would probably depend on how the app is calling the card: OpenGL would just be passed through, but DirectX would need emulation/translation. A custom driver, and all bets are off.

There is one difference that might come into play though: VMware and VPC would require you to actually have a copy of Windows to run in the emulator. WINE wouldn't. 😉

 

[Choppaface]

if they can get something like the old solaris/windows combo working I'm sold. mac os x for serving and ichat and windows for everything else, yes!

 

[manu chao]

I don't know anyone that stores their credit card data , social security numbers and such on their hard drive. If they do, they should leave it in a file named steal_me.txt on their desktop. One may as well mail their credit card and or debit card with PIN to the thieves.

Duh, ever heard about key loggers, the moment you type in your credit card number to order something online, it can be recorded and sent out. If somebody hijacks your e-mail account (if not your e-mail client), he or she
can do whole lot of things in the area of identity theft. And a lot of people store things like PayPal, Ebay, Apple ID usernames (incl. passwords) and the like in either their browser or in apps like Keychain, which when filled in into browser fields can be read by key loggers as well.

 

[manu chao]

Anyone care to speculate which of the following will be the best solution for running a few windows apps on top of OS X?

-VPC
-WINE
-VMware

I'd like to avoid Windows as much as possible but there are few apps (AutoCAD, 3DStudioMax, Rhino) I absolutely need to run. Which would be the best virtualization solution if these apps require the use of the graphics card?

Edit: It'd also be nice if someone can address the security issue regarding these environments.

Maybe Windows compatability will be like X11 is right now, if you need certain programms, and you are geek (and which non-geek needs X11 programms) you probably will not mind the user interface inconveniences.

 

[AidenShaw]

or you may prefer user interface consistency

....you probably will not mind the user interface inconveniences.

Some may prefer that the Windows program acts like a Windows program....

I certainly would find it way too bizarre if my Linux virtual machine started to act like its Windows host! 😱 (or vice versa)

 

[~Shard~]

I don't know anyone that stores their credit card data , social security numbers and such on their hard drive. If they do, they should leave it in a file named steal_me.txt on their desktop. One may as well mail their credit card and or debit card with PIN to the thieves.

You don't need to actually store your data on your machine for it to be vulnerable. Any time you type it in, whether it be on Amazon, eBay, PayPal, Internet Banking, etc., key loggers installed on your system can record every single keystroke and communicate that back out through your Internet connection. So, I would counter with, "How many people have never, ever, just once, entered a credit card #, PIN #, bank account # or password of any sort on their computer?" Those would be the ones who are truly safe. 😎

 

[Kobushi]

Hmmm.... That pic kinda reminds me of the time I bit into an apple and found it to be rotten in the core.

 

[fluidinclusion]

?

Dude, this is getting a bit old.

Actually, because vomit smells so bad (most of the time), it would actually be:

"Dude, you're getting a smell."

 

[dongmin]

We'll have to wait and see, really. VPC and VMware both do some emulation, which will increase security and decrease speed. Depending on how they are written, they may or may not be able to use graphics acceleration.

WINE would be lowest security, but should be the fastest, since it just runs the app with minimal remaping. (Really, it is the same idea as Carbon on Cocoa...) Which should mean that it is fast and allows full access to the system (or at the same access as any other program).

But in the end, all of these will be optimized as much as the programmers can. If VPC is well optimized, it may well be faster than a poorly optimized WINE, and have more support. It's just up to what level of programming support they each have.

Likely WINE will (eventually) not support everything, but will support enough to run most applications. Graphics card support would probably depend on how the app is calling the card: OpenGL would just be passed through, but DirectX would need emulation/translation. A custom driver, and all bets are off.

There is one difference that might come into play though: VMware and VPC would require you to actually have a copy of Windows to run in the emulator. WINE wouldn't. 😉

I was checking out the WINE sites and it seems that, for now, there are only a limited number of apps that are supported. For example (in my case), the ancient AutoCAD 98 runs but not any of the newer versions. Perhaps if Apple threw its weight behind it, it'll gain a larger community of developers and greater compatibility. But then again, MS probably would not be happy about users bypassing Windows to run Windows apps and would maybe add wrinkles to the Windows to make new apps less compatible with WINE.

I have my doubts that MS will devote much resources to keep developing VPC for the Mac, even with all the potential gains of moving it to x86. The conventional wisdom is that MS has an incentive to improve it as it will increase its userbase. But they haven't done jack since they bought it. And I don't imagine it adds all that much to their bottom line. My hope, then, is with VMware.

 

[Tvar']

Windows apps running natively on OSX through WINE (for free!)

For those of you who don't know what WINE is, it is a compatibility layer that allows unmodified Windows binaries to run on Linux. It intercepts all calls made by Windows programs to OS libraries, and translates them to Linux OS calls.
WINE is not an emulator - it runs at very near native speed, since the binary itself isn't translated. This is the only thing that has prevented it from being ported to OS X/X11.

WINE keeps up with new features of Windows through clever reverse engineering, which means that there are always some Windows apps which won't run under WINE, but they've been very successful in getting many to work perfectly, including Microsoft Office. There are several companies involved in enhancing WINE to improve its Windows compatibility - there is one called TransGaming which specializes in adding compatibility for windows games (Even DirectX games!!!).

Now that OS X will run on Intel, WINE will be ported to OS X, and you will be able to run your windows app without emulation directly on OS X. WINE is free, so you won't even need to buy a copy of Windows.

I've added some links to a press release by CodeWeavers about OS X & WINE, as well as TransGaming's site.

http://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/?id=20050622
http://www.transgaming.com/

 

[GFLPraxis]

I'm not quite sure why everyone is so interested in running windows on their macs. I cant wait for the switch to intel, because it means I'll finally have access to things like flash player and nvidia drivers on linux! (at least I hope!) yay!

It's pretty simple really. Some of us have to have both a Windows PC and a Mac for various reasons. Now we just need a Mac.

 

[Tvar']

???

I'm not quite sure why everyone is so interested in running windows on their macs. I cant wait for the switch to intel, because it means I'll finally have access to things like flash player and nvidia drivers on linux! (at least I hope!) yay!

Linux already has flash player and nVidia drivers... What planet are you from again?

 

[iPodAddict]

If anyone wants to know more on the search for OSX86 look at

http://forums.krazynonsense.com/showthread.php?t=30

Also if you have any relevant info that would be appreciated. As many know, even when we do find the images, there may be some modifying required as well.

 

[AidenShaw]

I'm so happy...

If anyone wants to know more on the search for OSX86 ....

I'm so happy that I've always said "Oh Ess Ecks" and never succumbed to the party line "Oh Ess Ten" pronunciation....

Now "Oh Ess Ecks Ate-y Sicks" just flows off the tongue so easily!

 

[Scottgfx]

Except Pontiac never sold a gazillion Aztecs. Aztecs are, in actuality, more like Wang computers.

No, they made a Gazillion of them; they're all rental cars down here in Florida.