First Evidence of Fifth-Generation Apple TV and tvOS 11 Possibly Spotted in Developer Logs

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    #176
    Exactly right. I was at Best Buy last week, and there was a VIZIO 60" 4K TV sitting right in front of the TV area, on sale for $450. Heck there's a Samsung 60" 4K TV on sale at Target right now for $599.

    People don't buy antiquated technology, especially Millennials. They know they are going to be hooking video games up to it, and 4K matters. Add to that, more Millennials & Gen Xers are connecting their laptops to their TVs and surfing the web, which is going to look 4x better -- and more legible -- on a laptop that supports 4K. Even my octogenarian Mom went to Costco and bought a 4K TV even though she absolutely doesn't need it (she watches SD channels in stretch mode), but wanted to have the latest technology, and thought the picture looked better, for not much more. Not only that but according to most charts, a 60" 4K TV detail can be perceived up to 8 feet away. Many people sit 8 feet away or closer, especially those who live in smaller, more affordable, apartments or in large cities like NY where square footage is at a premium. Now granted, in suburban areas, many homeowners are not going to be sitting closer than 8' from a 60" TV, but then there are many homeowners like my brother for whom the technical reality doesn't matter. He want's the latest technology, bragging rights, and to know his picture is superior to what he used to view movies on, whether he can perceive it or not. I used to make this argument with people all the time when 1080p was taking over 720p, despite the fact that TV networks broadcast in 720p, and the perception was not noticeable as far away as their sets were from their viewing area. And 1080p was considerably more expensive relative to 720p sets than 4K sets are to 1080p sets. A hundred bucks is not enough to keep most people from making an investment in a long term commodity like a TV set, to make sure they are future-proofed with the latest technology.
     
  2. kyleh22 macrumors 6502

    kyleh22

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    #177
    Very well said - you make strong points. I laughed out loud when you called out the irony of being locked into an eco system.
     
  3. vertical smile macrumors 68000

    vertical smile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    #178
    I am curious what you think the ATV4's stated intent is. (seriously, not being snarky)

    From what I read at the ATV4's launch, Apple's stated intent of the ATV4 is to bring:

    I would say that providing a revolutionary experience is the intent of the device, although that could be interpreted in many different ways. But, Apple goes on to mention the ATV4 as a gaming devices many times after this statement. Apple doesn't even mention AirPlay, and except for the example of how Siri on the ATV4 works, Apple only mentions Movies and TV shows 1 time.

    I would say Apple originally intended for the ATV4 to be a gaming device, but they shot themselves in the foot with the Siri remote requirement and/or not including a decent game controller bundled with the ATV4.
     
  4. Mac 128, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017

    Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    #179
    I think this pretty well sums it up, and it does it clearly in the first paragraph:

    http://www.apple.com/pr/library/201...-to-Television-with-The-All-New-Apple-TV.html

    Indeed, that press release barely mentions games. The subsequent press releases likewise focus on TV and video entertainment capabilities. Even the press photos offered for download only show movie & TV specific uses -- out of the 6 offered, only one shows the App menu with a few games selections depicted.

    http://www.apple.com/pr/products/apple-tv/apple-tv.html


    And if that's not enough .. the website homepage itself:

    http://www.apple.com/tv/

    The first image you see is a TV with the iTunes Movies and TV Shows apps the clear focus. In fact you have to scroll to the very bottom to see a game controller merely listed as "accessories" like an afterthought to the primary purpose. Everything else on the page is movies and TV show centric.
     
  5. vertical smile macrumors 68000

    vertical smile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    #180
    Which part? Movies? Siri? Apps? or is it bringing a revolutionary experience to your living room?

    I read this too, as I quoted earlier. I think you could be right and that is the intent of the device, but I think that games, at one point, were included with movies and tv shows.

    I am not sure what press release you were reading, because it couldn't have been the one you posted. Games were mentioned more than TV shows, and just as much as movies. If you don't count the example of using Siri, Apple only mentions both Movies and TV Shows two times. So, clearly games were important to them at one point, maybe not anymore.

    The example isn't a good one, as the link barely mentions anything. Beside, "accessories" is also mentioned at the top, and there is a link to just ATV gaming.

    Also, I am not even saying that you are wrong about movies and TV shows, but at the beginning, games were clearly important to Apple. At the ATV4 event, Apple spent as much time showing off games, as they did showing off Siri.

    I just think that games didn't take off, most likely due to Apple's missteps at the launch.

    So, getting back to the original quote:
    Are you saying Apple's original (not current) intent of the ATV4 did not include being a (casual) gaming platform?
    If so, I guess I just see it differently given the evidence.
     
  6. iPadCary macrumors 6502a

    iPadCary

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Location:
    NEW YORK CITY
    #181
    I like AppleTV very much and absolutely will be getting AppleTV 5 when it comes out.
    Great for online gaming like "Modern Combat Versus" & "Minecraft".
    All AppleTV needs is Safari & email capabilities and it would replace my iMac.
     
  7. wwchris macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #182
    Yes, I wouldn't upgrade them all at once. I would pay for each one as I watched it. Heck even if they were $2.99 - 4.99 a piece I would do it when I wanted to watch one. Assuming 4K movies are going to start at a premium of $20 I'd be happy to pay the "upgrade" price from what I own (generally averages about $14.99). I just don't want to pay the full price again for IP content that I already purchased.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 1, 2017 ---
    As I mentioned, I would be willing to pay an upgrade fee. I should not have to pay $20 again for a movie I already own. DVD's and Blu-rays are physical products that require remastering, new packaging, physical distribution, shipping and retailers to get a cut. In some cases a marketing budget as well. All of these factors either don't exist or are very minimal for a new iTunes digital distribution.

    I guarantee you any movie made in the last 10 years is already mastered at 4K (or higher) because they are digitally distributed in theaters that way. I don't mind paying for new content, but here we are talking about simply re-exporting. As a matter of fact, I have a friend who worked in digital compression for iTunes at Apple. I already know they have the master files sitting in their libraries waiting for distribution. It is already part of the movie making process.

    Let's face it, when people like me who are supporting an industry we believe in and willing to pay a very high premium start to feel like they are being treated unethically, you are doing it wrong. That is the kind of shortsightedness that comes back to bite them in the future. BTW, I totally recognize that this is a studio decision, not Apple, but as we saw with DRM music in iTunes, Steve Jobs (and now Apple/Tim) are able to wave a very big stick. Especially at Disney.

    Hell, maybe we should just get Taylor Swift to write an open letter to the movie studios and get this done :)
    --- Post Merged, Apr 1, 2017 ---
    Hey Jake, I didn't see anyone else mention this on here, but it might alleviate your frustration on the stuttering. I can't guarantee it, but most likely, the stuttering is actually being caused by the TV itself upscaling 1080 content to 4K and choking on it. This is a common function of 4K TV's and generally on by default. You can turn it off and it will display as 1080. Test and see if that help alleviate the stuttering. Then you have to decide on what you want to live with :) I haven't done extensive research on what might fix it. What did work for me was upgrading my dedicated stereo receiver to one that also did 4K upscaling (so the signal going to the TV is already 4K) and it did a better job without the choking. You might want to do a little more research and see if you can determine any fixes.
     
  8. Bswails macrumors newbie

    Bswails

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    #183

    I currently have two apple tvs for HomeKit in my house and a shield TV for media..your right I think I'm going to be selling the Apple tvs and buying iPads for HomeKit. I just don't see a reason I use the spectrum tv app for cable and virtually all(android tv does not have an app but the tv in that room is a samsung so it's an app included for spectrum) other devices other than the Apple TV has an app i know big cable is in bed with each other but all this confusion is just crazy..why have an iPhone/iPad app but not tvOS?
     
  9. chucker23n1 macrumors 6502a

    chucker23n1

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    #184
    I think the discrepancy here is that you expect the press release to define the device as a whole, when it is instead arguably written to focus on what's new for the device, compared to the tv 3.

    The Siri Remote and third-party apps and games are the aspects that are new.

    That's why TV and movies are barely mentioned, and AirPlay isn't: because those aren't new.
     
  10. StarShot macrumors 6502

    StarShot

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    #185
    First of all, I beleive most 4k sets are of the smart varity (built-in Amazon/NetFlix strearming). At least mine is (LG). I occasionly stream 4K video from both NetFlix and Amazon. So why would I want to run either through the reportly new 4K ATV? Yes, I know the ATV4 does NOT include an Amazon app, but does include NetFlix. The few times I've tried streaming NetFlix through my ATV have been less than desireable (spooling) and then I have to deal with the ATV remote which I find way to sensitive.

    Still, an ATV 4K would be hard to pass up. On the other hand, 4K movies cost around $3 or more additional to rent on Directv. At that price, HD movies are more than acceptable to me.
     
  11. PhoenixDown macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    #186
    I for one hate the fact that upgrades rarely come on the smart tv platforms. I would prefer to use something like an AppleTV or Roku where apps are continually updated and supported.
     
  12. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    #187
    Any opportunity to avoid using the Android TV OS installed in my 4K set, I'll take! If I could run Amazon, and Netflix from my Apple TV in 4K, I'd never touch those apps in my Smart TV. Here's a case in point -- for some bizarre reason, Google has not updated their YouTube Android TV App to output HDR, yet many other platforms have HDR capable YouTube Apps.

    Also, aren't my purchases made in-App on the ATV run through iTunes, thus keeping all of my entertainment costs organized?
     
  13. mi7chy, Jun 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017

    mi7chy macrumors 68040

    mi7chy

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    #188
    Too little, too late and too limited. Ended up buying a $60 Chromecast Ultra that's cross-platform compatible, supports 4K, HEVC, VP9, 10bit HDR and 60fps. It not only works with all the major 4K streaming services like Netflix, YouTube, Google Movies & TV, etc. but also local content. Also looking into adding a ~$150 sub-20W Apollo Lake HTPC running LibreElec/Windows 10 for the ultimate versatility with 4K media consumption, retro gaming emulation, light Steam gaming, productivity, etc.

    http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/J3455-ITX/index.us.asp
     
  14. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    #189
    Does it support DV? If not, Apple might just have a horn to toot, as well as some exclusive DV content on iTunes to trumpet with it ...
     
  15. StarShot, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017

    StarShot macrumors 6502

    StarShot

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    #190
    Never thought of it, but I guess I'm using the Android app myself with my LG Oled 4K set when I'm watching NetFlix or Amazon Prime. AFAIK, the youtube app sure looks like 4K when I choose a 4K video. However, I very seldem watch any youtube video on my LG.

    Currently, as you probably know, the present ATV 4 does NOT have an Amazon app and of course, there is NO 4K content with the present ATV. My problem with NetFlix AND Amazon prime on my (apparently) Android system is navigation on both NetFlix and Amazon.

    IF the new ATV5 does support 4K, I'll certainly buy one although I'm not wild about the present ATV4 controller. Not sure what Google has to do with youtube?
     
  16. CarlJ, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017

    CarlJ macrumors 68020

    CarlJ

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    #191
    Google owns YouTube, last I checked.

    And FWIW, I use the ATV4 remote quite happily, with a Griffin Survivor Play case on it, along with Apple's Remote Loop wrist strap for it (which at the time was the least expensive Apple item in Apple Stores). I practically never use the wrist strap as intended*, it merely serves as a "tail" for instant non-looking orientation in the hand, and the case makes the remote much easier to pick up and somewhat more grippy (and perhaps a little easier to see, with the clear/white case; I tried a knockoff in bright red, but it didn't fit nearly as well). Neither of these excuse the remote's physical design, which went for elegance/prettiness over usability, but with the additions I find it quite pleasant to use, which is good because, since cutting the cord, it's my primary interface for the TV - I have a Harmony Remote (a 650) that can mimic the Siri Remote (except for the actual Siri button and microphone), but I use it only to turn on/off the TV, Apple TV, and HDMI switcher (which is used to extract digital audio to feed to an old surround system). Once the Siri Remote is in hand and properly oriented, it's nice and small, so no button is out of reach, and every button is useful (vs. the Harmony Remote, where one must keep track of which 6 of the 46 available buttons scattered across the remote are actually active); also Bluetooth seems to make it much more responsive than infrared.

    If the ATV5 comes with the same remote, I won't complain (because I have workable solutions, for some value of "workable"), but it'll be a missed opportunity, and the announcement thread here will suffer endless howls of complaining and calls for Tim Cook's head on a pike.

    *: (The wrist strap is useful if you wander into the kitchen with the remote in hand and end up with, say, two glasses to bring back - thread your hand through the strap and let the remote dangle while carrying the glasses. Otherwise, it's just a tail.)
     
  17. Tech198 macrumors G4

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    Mar 21, 2011
    Location:
    Australia, Perth
    #192
    if the rumors are true :) don't forget that part..
     
  18. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    #193
    LG uses Linux-based WebOS. And it plays 4K UHD video just fine, and is easy to confirm in the video Quality settings. It's HDR that YouTube doesn't currently support, at least on Android TV, though it does apparently on other Android platforms. Google owns YouTube and Android, so it's kind of strange they aren't supporting features on their own apps within their own ecosystem -- especially when YouTube now sells content.
     
  19. mi7chy macrumors 68040

    mi7chy

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    #194
    Google can't enable a hardware feature if it's not supported by your TV and only select LG TVs support HDR. Should've done better research.
     
  20. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    #195
    Not sure what your point is. He was referring to his LG OLED TV and I was referring to my Sony FALD TV. Both support HDR. Android TV supports HDR on the Amazon and Netflix app on my TV. The YouTube app does not. I never stated anything about his LG YouTube app not supporting HDR, since I don't have a WebOS-based LG to know that, only that it did not support HDR on my Android based TV -- and I never stated that the YouTube app did not support 4K on any set, which he seemed to confuse with HDR.
     
  21. Foxy696 macrumors newbie

    Foxy696

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    Jun 27, 2017
    Location:
    Northampton
    #196
    Looks good
     

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