First Evidence of Fifth-Generation Apple TV and tvOS 11 Possibly Spotted in Developer Logs

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. GeneralChang macrumors 65816

    Dec 2, 2013
    I guess I was saying that both sides of this "argument" indicate an unfamiliarity with how Apple has traditionally done business. I think a 4K Apple TV would be great. I'm also not surprised that we don't have one yet. I think most people who have been using Apple products for a while are in that same boat.
  2. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604


    Feb 8, 2004
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    I don't know. Just about every :apple:TV thread tends to fill with the same anti-4K arguments... almost all of which were the same anti-1080p arguments before Apple rolled out the :apple:TV3.

    However, hop over to every other Apple product thread and the whines tend to revolve around wishing Apple would evolve to new hardware ASAP. Just this ONE product seems to motivate a good chunk of us to want to desperately cling to the ever-aging past... which is particularly funny because a 4K:apple:TV doesn't actually force anyone happy with the status quo to do, buy, endure, etc ANYTHING at all. They could still opt for the 1080p (or 720p or SD) version of iTunes media, still use the exact same broadband pipe to download the same level of video they download now, still allocate the exact same hard drive space to store the exact kind of video file they prefer now, still watch it on the exact same HDTV they already have, etc.

    But somehow we get confused about the concept that hardware advances don't necessarily force changes on us at all if we are happy with the "as is." Or, if we are not confused about that, then we are just burning time & energy hoping that others who might want advanced features can't get what they want from this Apple product too.
  3. MrJosef macrumors newbie

    Feb 12, 2016
    I am not sure the comments I have read are "hate" I have all of the recent generations of Apple TV. Apple is useful yes, but basic functionality is woeful. If I start to watch a movie, stop the movie, TV show etc and come back to the Apple TV an hour later, my recent viewings should be there plain to see, (3 generations later it is still not) to carry on where I left off. I should not have to find that movie in my library again! then proceed to to be able to continue, its a joke. Its just lazy software programming. What I have viewed or watched most recently should appear each time. Under a heading like.. hmmm "recently watched" I will not even go into how buggy I find the the software and UI. Yes I have erased and reinstalled, several times. Its called constructive feedback and valid criticism. Nobody improves anything if they never believe there is anything to improve. With Apple there is. I have heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem and have and do own many laptops, Mac-mini's Thunderbolt displays, iPads, mini, Pro, iPhones etc. It comes a point when your best selling product is the iPhone yet still at 10.2.1 we are speculating about the "next" iPhone, when my iPhones 7 still have Bluetooth drop outs. Sorry I find this sincerely insulting.
  4. bladerunner2000 macrumors 68000


    Jun 12, 2015
    The AppleTV would then be an immediate write off.

    I've got an Nvidia Shield TV, and the USB port is essential. Allows me to even hookup any external drive and pseudo-replace the unit's own internal drive as it's main storage, thereby going from 16gb to say 8TB HDD as internal storage or a small 128gb USB stick. You can probably figure out why that's a good thing.

    Putting in the USB but purposely limiting it is just a slap to the face. Not sure why you tolerate it though.
  5. ignatius345 macrumors 6502a

    Aug 20, 2015
    No, I meant exactly what I wrote and was asking for specifics as far as "bugs" -- I probably could've been clearer about that.

    I have a third-generation ATV and have been considering the jump to the fourth-gen model (or fifth, if it comes out soon).
  6. vertical smile macrumors 68020

    vertical smile

    Sep 23, 2014
    Please correct me if I am wrong, but the ATV1 had an 1080p output, but couldn't playback the 1080p without the card, while the ATV2 had just a 720p output. This was a step backwards, and that was the point I was making.

    I meant generally. Obviously iTunes did not have 1080p content at the time. I am not saying Apple necessesarily had content, just saying 1080p and 1080i content was more common then, than 4k was in 2015. And again, I am not defending Apple for not having a 4k ATV4.
    You could have quote the last paragraph of my post that is basically supporting 4k on the ATV4. How is it not?
    Don't tie this with me, as I never said anything like this. Actually, my quote above says the opposite.

    These could be totally different people stating the different sides of the argument. Or the same people that see the evolution of new hardware as something else beside 4k on an Apple TV.

    Let me use myself for an example:
    I wished the ATV4 had 4k
    I wished the ATV4 had optical out
    I think Apple has too many models of the iPad with too many different names
    I wished Apple stopped favoring form (thinness) over function, especially for their computer hardware
    I do not think the iOS and Mac OS should merge
    I like USBc, but think Apple should also include USBa on the MBP
    I wished Apple had better dedicated graphics in their computers
    I hate that Apple reduced the size of the SSD of the base Fusion Drive to 24GB
    I hate the size of my iPhone 6s plus, and wished Apple made a smaller flagship phone

    Now, the point of that is to show that all my statements above could be viewed as evolution of tech depending on your interpretation. They could also be interpreted as tech stagnation, or unnecessary tech evolution.

    I think the same goes for 4k, I think Apple should have 4k on the ATV4, but I can see an argument to not have it.
  7. GeneralChang macrumors 65816

    Dec 2, 2013
    I'm just trying to understand what you were saying, and that didn't really clear it up. Based on context I'm thinking you mean that the Apple TV is a write off because you can't connect external devices to it. But what you wrote initially made it sound like if they just took the USB port off, you'd be fine with the device. The first point seems perfectly reasonable based on use case. The second seems silly. That's why I was confused.
  8. HobeSoundDarryl, Mar 17, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017

    HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604


    Feb 8, 2004
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    Misunderstood your point. My apologies.

    I understand. But that general concept of more 1080 than 4K at similar points in time pops up in every 4K:apple:TV thread. Is it a valid argument? I don't know. I look at USB3C implementation and think what else had USB3C when Apple implemented it. Or even now- several years later- does even 20% of the stuff we attach to our computers have USB3C on that stuff's end? Same with Thunderbolt when Apple implemented it. Same with Lightning. Same with Applepay. Etc.

    In short, Apple advances a lot of hardware before the "world" is ready for it. Why do we have to see this advancement so differently... especially when it doesn't actually have to affect anyone happy with the status quo? Nevertheless, every thread loads up with a variety of anti-4K :apple:TV arguments and this is one of the more common bits of rationale why we- all of us- don't need a 4K:apple:TV yet.

    I share your sentiment on every one of of those bullets. However, go over into threads where such stuff is discussed and for a you or me that takes such a stance, there will be 5 guys arguing why each of those things makes perfect sense FOR EVERYBODY. Let this very thread be a good example. Again, a 4K:apple:TV affects NOBODY negatively. Those happy with 1080p can watch 1080p from hardware capable of more. Those happy with 1080p (or 720p or SD) files can keep choosing to download those, using the exact same bandwidth through the exact same pipe and storing it in the exact same amount of hard drive space they have. Those happy with their current TV do NOT have to throw it out. Yet, look how many posts are in this thread spinning the opposite of those truths.

    All a 4K:apple:TV does is allows those who DO want 4K to get it and enjoy it on Apple hardware. It has zero effect on those happy with status quo. But one could never believe that based on every one of these 4K:apple:TV threads.

    Me too. However, with this one, what's the point in the anti-4K argument? It affects nobody negatively. To me, it's like making passionate arguments against building LTE band reception not used in someone's area (or by their provider) into an iPhone. Or arguing against an LTE iPhone by someone in an area before LTE was fully in place yet. Or arguing against a 1080p :apple:TV by someone satisfied with 720p at the time. All this perception of having to buy a new TV or having to download only 4K files or needing bigger broadband pipes or broadband cap issues etc are all irrelevant because those making such arguments can keep doing exactly what they are doing now.

    And I'm not putting some of that on you- just speaking generally about this particular topic. You & I wish Apple had rolled out 4K in the "4." I (and presumably you) bought the "4" anyway but still wish it had it and look forward to it probably arriving in this "5."
  9. vertical smile macrumors 68020

    vertical smile

    Sep 23, 2014
    Sorry, I am the one that misunderstood. You were genuinely asking about the bugs on the ATV4 model.

    It depends on who you ask, but when people say they never have any problems using their ATV4, I would questioned that.

    My family uses the ATV4 a lot, and I experience bugs everyday. The bugs are not as bad as they use to be though.

    I noticed that using YouTube for long periods of time seems to bring on some of the bugs, but for the most part they are unpredictable.

    The bugs that I notice daily are:
    Random app crashes
    Auto sound adjustments when I pause a video
    Buffering when playing home movies
    Home button lag
    Random spurts of lag
    Scrolling lag

    Random restarts
    Siri remote swiping/scrolling becomes so laggy, that you pass what you are trying to select
    Slow(like 15 seconds) to connect for the Siri remote when using a IR remote first

    I didn't really talk about app specific bugs, but there are plenty.

    Unless the ATV4 has an app that you really want, I would wait, as the ATV3 is a really nice device.
  10. ignatius345 macrumors 6502a

    Aug 20, 2015
    This is useful, thanks. Every once in a while I get tempted by an app like Letterboxd (which is a great service btw) but generally I find the ATV3 is doing everything I need so far. I'm sure they'll stop officially supporting it at some point and I'll have no choice anyway :)
  11. vertical smile macrumors 68020

    vertical smile

    Sep 23, 2014
    I guess you have a valid point here. If Apple had included 4k, and assuming the ATV4 would have cost the same, it wouldn't of hurt anyone's experience.

    I see this about other things too, where people express happiness in decisions that would have not affected them with either outcome.

    This reminds me of when Apple removed the optical out on the ATV4, and when iTunes Radio being dropped from iTunes Match subscriptions. The removal of these things had no impact on the people that did not use the port/service, but yet there were plenty of people praising Apple for the decision.

    Praising the removal iTunes Radio from Match subscribers really confused me.

    So, you have a point about the "anti-4k" argument. I think there are reasons not to care if the ATV4 did not have 4k, but like you said, if it did, it wouldn't affect anyone negatively. If anything, it probably would have sold more units.
  12. GeneralChang macrumors 65816

    Dec 2, 2013
    Yikes, I've got to wonder if I lucked out on my device when I read stuff like this. My ATV4 isn't bug-free, by any means, but most of the issues seem directly related to specific apps (the ABC app in particular seems pretty terrible, just, in general). I have seen a few of the issues you spell out, especially the scrolling lag, but it's nothing like a daily occurrence.

    In general the experience is smooth, polished, and predictable, though I was having some wifi disconnection issues a few months ago. I think that may have been device load on my router, though, and in any case I just ran a wire to it and it's working fine now. I do often wonder how much networks and general electromagnetic radiants affect the frequency of issues like these on a device that relies so much on wifi and bluetooth.
  13. vertical smile macrumors 68020

    vertical smile

    Sep 23, 2014
    I have also noticed that the ATV4 user experience seems to be pretty inconsistent. I generally rule out anyone that says their device runs flawless, but if you follow the forums there is a wide range posts from a good experience with a few bugs, to a horrible experience with an unusable device. People are quick to say it must be a hardware issue, but like I said in an earlier post, most of the bugs have improved with software updates. Also, some new bugs have appeared with the tvOS updates.

    As for app related bugs, I noticed that most of the bugs happen after using YouTube for a long period of time. A restart usually corrects the issues. Also, using an IR remote, then going to the Siri remote tends to set off the scrolling lag for some reason, plugging in the remote to a charging cable can usually fix this.

    Inconsistent experiences seem to be the new norm with Apple products lately, so it is not exclusive to the ATV.
  14. GeneralChang macrumors 65816

    Dec 2, 2013
    Inconsistent experiences seem to have always been the norm for pretty much any tech product, for my money, at least. As long as I can get something that will work consistently for me, I'm all set. Even if everybody else wound up with a lemon. ;)
  15. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Apr 16, 2015
    Not sure where you get your facts. Even my octogenarian mom has a 4K TV. Heck I went to buy a new TV at Best Buy and they had 4K 60" TVs for $400. I was thinking about saving $100 and getting a 1080p TV, when I realized, I'd like to use my TV as a second monitor for my Mac, which I use via AirPlay extending, and if I want to actually see the text on the display, then it' better be 4K. 4K is the future one way or another -- especially gaming, which seems to be all those pesky Gen Z kids are doing these days. Whether or not most TVs in homes now are 4K should have no bearing on what current technology Apple supports. They had no business releasing a 1080p ATV4 when they were selling iPhones capable of 4K video.
  16. vertical smile macrumors 68020

    vertical smile

    Sep 23, 2014
    If you look at thespacekid's statement line by line, he is not wrong.

    At least in the US, the statement is correct. No one knows for sure, but as I regularly look at stuff like this, the estimates I have seen are between 5-15% of US house holds in 2016-2017 had a 4k TV. An interesting note, about 10% of US house holds, don't own a HDTV.

    One could strongly argue that no one really "needs" a TV, 4k or not.

    This is more of a wish or desire, and I for one hope it offers more than just 4k too (but, the ATV5 better have 4k too).

    I also think that the ATV4 should have had 4k, as there was little reasons not to include it.
  17. moooooooo macrumors newbie


    Jun 24, 2016
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    totally disagree. The endless ****ing horizontal scrolling you have to do on the Netflix ATV4 app is ridiculous. I have 80+ shows in my list and drives me ****ing balmy scrolling horizontally. The app on the ATV3 has My List all on a separate page which is a great UI design. The ATV4 app is a step backwards IMO.
    Yes i suppose i could use the search feature but FFS they could have enabled the My List title to actually click through to a full page of My List shows.
  18. lordofthereef macrumors G5


    Nov 29, 2011
    Boston, MA
    I'd get a 4K unit if it kept the price range and was jailbreakable. Cheaper than building a new media center pc and I could stream directly to it. Aside from that I see little reason to go beyond gen 2 or 3.
  19. Tech198 macrumors G4

    Mar 21, 2011
    Australia, Perth
    I wonder how long Apple will drag this "just a hobby" out , despite everyone else knows its really not a hobby anymore, is TV and we have complete OS on it.

    Almost like bringing out the iPad and calling that a "hobby" No one in their right mind would accept that today.
  20. bruinsrme macrumors 603


    Oct 26, 2008
    Cmon you have to be kidding me. You can pick up a 50-60 inch 4K tv for less than $550.
  21. richman555 macrumors 6502


    Jan 23, 2010
    Collegeville, PA
    I agree. Apple TV should be like the Alexa for my television. Siri support is really limited and I should be able to find all kinds of information through it. I am really surprised how much the gaming is a bust on the system as well. 4K is nice... but its really lacking in all these other areas as well.
  22. slippyfox macrumors newbie

    Feb 16, 2016
    ...are you me?? (cept' it's Frozen and Paw Patrol)
  23. x-evil-x macrumors 68040


    Jul 13, 2008
    i guess thats what i meant for steaming my movie collection i use plex too. You can also pay ipwnstore for kodi yearly at 7$ i believe. I side loaded mine when i had a developer account for my business and some reason is still working fine a year and a half later(canceled the developer account last october). Not sure why i still have it. I mainly use airplay for music, or sleep apps not really tying up the device at all.
  24. Mac 128 macrumors 601

    Mac 128

    Apr 16, 2015
    While this is true, Siri doesn't even provide adequate support on the iPhone. Apple is really slow on the draw here and the ATV is the least of it.

    Gaming is certainly becoming a more popular pastime it seems, even a sport, but I don't fault Apple for not making it a stronger part of the platform given the stated intent of the device.

    The important thing is that Apple appears to be making efforts to improve both.

    But 4K is becoming an ever increasing part of the core service, which is to provide streaming movies and entertainment. The fact it wasn't included with the introduction of iPhones capable of shooting 4K video is appalling. But now that there's been even more expansion of 4K streaming options, and the fact that Macs can now support 4K video, the ATV must include it.

    The reason I bought an ATV in the first place was for AirPlay. I use it primarily as a display extension for my MBP. 1080p really doesn't provide a usable display for most computing purposes. But a 4K TV does. Mine might be a smaller use case for the ATV, but it is part of the core service. And it's a step toward Apple's wireless future.

    Apple got out of the display business, likely because most customers have the option to pick up a 4K display for their homes for under $500. Whether people need 4K displays or not, most new TV purchases will be 4K, and even if a customers favorite TV show might not look significantly better on the display, anything they do with a Mac or iOS device will.
  25. oneMadRssn macrumors 68040


    Sep 8, 2011
    Boston, MA
    I don't see a single 60" 4K tv with HDR for that price.

    Plus, according to this chart commonly passed around, 50" 4K tvs are pointless unless you're sitting 6ft away or less.

    Don't get me wrong, I want a 4k tv and I want AppleTV to support 4k. But in terms of size versus price, the TVs aren't affordable enough yet.

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