I think this is due to Apple not wanting to be liable for security issues. If a user is running the latest iOS available for a device, and it's no longer supported, they would say the user "is aware or should be aware" the software is no longer supported. By removing the downgrade ability they've closed some loopholes. I'm sure it's in the terms of use somewhere that if you stay on the latest unsupported version and get compromised, they are not responsible.
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iPhone SE (2016) First Gen SE: How much longer viable?
- Thread starter rwh63
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I think this is due to Apple not wanting to be liable for security issues. If a user is running the latest iOS available for a device, and it's no longer supported, they would say the user "is aware or should be aware" the software is no longer supported. By removing the downgrade ability they've closed some loopholes. I'm sure it's in the terms of use somewhere that if you stay on the latest unsupported version and get compromised, they are not responsible.
Are you absolutely sure that it wouldn’t work? Have you tried it? You can install older versions for the vast majority of apps. Like I said, WhatsApp works (until May). Netflix works too.
7 hours with what usage? If it is with moderate use, any outdoors, heavier use will render the phone unusable to me even with my efficient settings and usage patterns.
I don’t want my phone to be outdoors all day and straining by 4pm because iOS updates took too much battery life away. And compatibility issues are only annoying five versions behind. Five years. You have five years of near-perfection. iOS 12 isn’t perfect now, so I’m upgrading...
But do you think an iPhone Xʀ on iOS 18 would suit me anyway? No! I would upgrade anyway because battery life and performance would be garbage! What’s the difference? That it works perfectly right until I choose to upgrade.
I’d love to see your SOT now, I have a similar battery health number on iOS 12 (89%).
Even my old iPhone 6 Plus, which is stuck on iOS 12, could still serve as my daily driver! There are some apps I like which don't work on it, but it's still workable. I wouldn't be too concerned about your iOS 15 yet. It will take time for apps to stop working on it.
If it's in the terms, then shouldn't we be able to assume the risk?
It'd be nice to have some freedom with our own devices that Apple no longer sells, supports or pushes updates for
I have been using original versions since iOS 8 on iPhones, iOS 4 on iOS devices in general.
It is absolutely overblown by pretty much everyone, because they don’t use original iOS versions and they check the iOS version compatible with the latest versions of apps. I don’t care about that. My Reddit app is older, but it works. My Netflix app is older, but it works. My Google Maps Version is older, but it works.
People wildly overestimate compatibility issues, which are only reasonably severe 6-7 years after launch. The Xʀ on iOS 12 is getting there, but that’s why I’m upgrading. It’s enough lifespan for a device, imo.
In a perfect world, developers would maintain compatibility indefinitely, but we work with what we have. It isn’t as bad as people think it is.
The security argument falls apart when the device is unsupported, as Apple doesn’t provide all security updates to older versions. Security is a unit. A device is fully patched or it isn’t.
Let’s ignore the compatibility argument. An iPhone SE is better on iOS 10 than iOS 15. I should be able to downgrade. iOS 15 is no longer considered ”””secure”””
The funny thing is... I’m already assuming that risk by not updating!If it's in the terms, then shouldn't we be able to assume the risk?
It'd be nice to have some freedom with our own devices that Apple no longer sells, supports or pushes updates for
If Apple cared THAT much... why wouldn’t they outright force me to update everything I have?
It’s not overblown. Multitudes of updates happen to apps over years of time. An app might still technically work but it doesn’t work as it should or can. Many security updates have been done to them. Bug fixes, etc. If that’s OK with you enjoy, we’re all different and have different needs, but don’t make it sound like it’s OK in general. That’s just not true.
Well, I have the original iPhone but I haven’t fired it up in quite a while and I have the original SE which I turn on maybe once a year, see it’s slow and outdated, and turn back off for another year while I use my newer iPhone with current OS, security, etc.
Does that count? 😂
No. That’s why you think outdated devices are useless: you have never used one.
Why is the original SE slow? Because it’s on iOS 15!!! It would be VERY fast if it were on iOS 10.
I’ve been around Apple since the beginning, I’m not a rookie. I understand how the OS works and what an old device can and cannot do. I’ve done it. Doable? Sure, if you want a basic and unsafe environment. It’s not just about banking apps, it’s about the entire operating system. If all you’re going to do is text and a few emails perhaps yet it’s still a subdued experience. If it works for you, great, but don’t tell others they are overreacting because that has no merit.
Obviously depends on the user, but if you have a set usage pattern (which many do), being behind doesn’t really have a significant impact for a long while.
You can use most established apps for several years.
I’m upgrading because iOS 12 is getting to the point of uselessness for me, but two or three iOS versions behind is no issue for most, imo.
Five or six and you’re starting to struggle. I’ll always criticize developers for not supporting iOS versions for longer, but with the current status quo? I just don’t see the point in updating.
If critical issues show up by year 5 or 6, iOS updates ensure that the device, if updated, is severely impacted. By then, you upgrade. If you don’t update, by year 6 you’ll struggle. So you upgrade.
You upgrade either way. With one approach you have perfection. With the other, mediocrity.
The iPhone SE represents a mediocre experience today if updated, an unusable one if not (I have an iPhone 6s on iOS 10. It’s no longer useful).
That’s my approach: I buy a device. I never update it. When issues arise, I upgrade. It’s so much better than the alternative that I was (and still am) astonished to discover that the vast majority of people just... update anything and everything? Why? Just to get a worse experience and upgrade anyway? If you upgrade every 3-4 years, you’ll barely have issues staying behind.
Many upgrade when the experience is too unusable, but you don’t have to have a progressively worsening experience. I am extremely surprised by how unpopular this opinion is.
If you have an SE and it’s slow on iOS 15 then something isn’t right. Your degraded battery is probably not providing optimized performance. My 6S with the same hardware on 15 works perfectly fine.
Or different expectations if one has gotten used to faster devices.
I find the 6s sluggish on iOS 15 and that's on a dummy account with barely any apps installed. Battery health is fine and Geekbench shows no throttling.
Below are the functions I'm using my 2016 iphone SE to do:
- dbl meter (measuring noise level)
- handheld camera (it's 4k, as you have already known)
- ruler and angle meter.
- compass
- leveling meter...
- clock & timer
- running distance measure (it's just a little bigger than an Air watch)
- lighting device (it can stand on a flat surface, while my bigger phone can't due to its round edge)
....
The bigger phones still can do these things, but a smaller phone can do better on the handheld aspect.
I don’t know what these “issues” are which you are talking about. I have a 13, as I’ve explained, and I have updated from iOS 15 to iOS 18 with no slowdown as the phone seems as responsive as ever. Sure there might be a small hit to the battery but, like I said, it lasts me a day.
What I find hilarious is that you have stated you only use your phone for 3 hours per day yet you, for some reason, refuse to upgrade because doing so might knock a few hours off of the original 12-14 hours when the phone was new. Do you not have an available power outlet in your house? Are you only able to recharge your phone once every 2-3 days? Do you own a battery pack if you haven’t got enough outlets? I don’t understand your stance here.
Sounds like you’re the kind of person who is willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.
And yes, like I said, iOS 12 is dumb phone territory for me. No Disney+, no Prime, janky web-browsing, no trading or banking apps… massively outdated Netflix & WhatsApp (if either even work right now, which I have my doubts). Sorry but I can’t see your logic. None of what you’ve said has made any sense. You require 3 hours of SoT per day however 7-8 hours is “garbage”? I think you can see why no one here agrees with you and pretty much everyone praises Apple for their long term support of devices.
I am genuinely very happy that Apple has supported the OGSE for so long. We have a 9 year old phone which is compatible with 95% of apps and performs well on iOS 15. Yes, the battery life won’t go above 5.5 hours SoT for light use but if you are an OGSE user, it’ll likely be enough for your needs. It’s definitely not “garbage” as you say!
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I am considered a heavy user, compared to most people on his forum, and my 13 can last me a day of use. I normally have 2-3 hours of video steaming carried out on 4G each day along with web-browsing, WhatsApp and 30-40 mins of phone calls. I also stream 1-2 hours of music or podcasts through Bluetooth. If I had a problem with my 13’s battery life, I would’ve already went for a battery service. I am surprised at how well the battery performs at it current health considering the 6S and 8 were both very poor at <90% BH.
The problem with you is that you’ve latched onto an outdated argument which is no longer relevant. Older pre-2017 mainline devices (older than iPhone X) suffered from performance drops along with severe battery degradation when updating to their iOS limit. Newer phones, with larger batteries, and much more efficient SoCs, don’t see the same performance drops, and the batteries are so large that a reduction in battery life is not noticeable until the battery itself is at the end of its life.
And don’t talk about efficiently settings to me as, unlike you, I don’t compromise. I use automatic brightness settings with True Tone so I always have a bright screen when outdoors.
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The thing with the battery life reduction is not my extremely efficient, light usage. It’s when I need a little more.
I like tennis. I go to see a tournament live. An early start. I shoot a few videos and take a few photos, at high brightness because of sunlight.
The 6s’ battery on iOS 10 isn’t enough (I’ve tried). And I don’t even use it a lot!!!
7-8 hours of light SOT with massive efficiency turns into 5 with a small efficiency decrease (enable LTE, increase brightness to 50%). You need the camera? Bright sunlight brightness? It’s worse. There we get into not enough territory. That’s what I don’t accept.
You have a road trip and leave early? With varying signal throughout the day and using it sparingly? Not enough.
Let’s see if what you said holds for the iPhone 11. The iPhone 13 hasn’t been updated enough yet. 3 versions will impact it like you’ve discovered, but it isn’t a phone that’s been updated significantly. The iPhone 11 has a similar battery on iOS 14.6 as my Xʀ on iOS 12 (I’ve tried). 16 hours of light SOT, 11 hours of moderate use outdoors (higher brightness, LTE, some camera use). A 50% drop is 6s-like, and not enough. Let’s see how it fares. Five major versions. I’ll try it and let you know...
I’m an extremely efficient user. Nobody barring one person in the whole Internet gets the battery life I get. Nobody. If I can’t make it work, chances are, nobody can.
If it’s barely enough or not enough for me, it’ll suck for the rest.
I’ll let you know when I can try an iPhone 11 on iOS 18. The bare minimum would be around 10-11 hours of light SOT. Anything worse and it would crumble at the lightest decrease in efficiency; that is, at the slightest worsening of conditions. We’ll see.
Also, 5.5 hours of light SOT is absolute trash that wouldn’t get through half a day with anything heavier. I’ve seen an updated 1st-gen SE! It was tied to a charger as it would die after less than three hours of outdoor use. It was plugged in no less than THREE times to a power bank that day. That’s the problem. That’s what you accept and I don’t. Maybe the 11 is better, we’ll see...
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I have told you before, I don’t accept compromise. If my iPhone 13 couldn’t provide me with a day of battery life, I would arrange a battery service. If, say the battery was still too poor on iOS 21, then I would replace the device and my 13 would become my secondary device (replacing my 8).
I don’t mess about with efficiency either, couldn’t care less about it. I have auto-brightness settings always on. Never adjust the brightness myself and I do not use ‘low power’ mode. I simply need enough battery life to last me a day of use, that’s all.
If I have a day where I require an abnormal amount of battery life, such as last Sunday, I take my Apple MagSafe battery pack with me. It’s a tiny battery pack which magnetically connects to the back of iPhones… no tethering required. It’s easy to use and doesn’t get in the way unlike normal battery banks.
I am still unsure what you’re trying to say… I have a device that came out in 2021 which is very usable in 2025. It feels as fast as it did the day I got it and can last me a full day of use even without a battery service. Once I have had the battery serviced, it’ll provide more charge than I require on a daily basis.
If you update your iPhone 16 Plus, like a normal person, you will agree with me as you won’t see a negative drop in performance or usability other than all your apps will work as intended and Safari won’t be a janky mess.
Every draining setting is off
Low Power Mode
Low brightness
Good signal
Light apps like web browsing, Reddit, and messaging
16 Pro Max users have worse battery life than me on an iPhone rated for twice the SOT. I’m not bragging, I don’t care how much battery people get. I haven’t seen the numbers I get on my Xʀ, on any newer iPhone, even those rated for twice the SOT.
This tells me the average user is a heavier user than me. And there’s nothing wrong with that!!!
But if I can’t get enough battery life with my usage, then what’s left for heavy social media users with higher brightness? If I suffer the consequences of six major versions, how do heavier users fare?
I’ve been a heavier user on occasion, and the impact is obvious, on one of the most efficient combos ever (iOS 12 was fine-tuned by Apple for efficiency after the iOS 11 fiasco, on the processor most optimised for it). How would I fare on an iPhone Xʀ on iOS 18? Well.. not well.
You can laugh if you like, but here you go:
Final runtime: 18 hours and 32 minutes 100-0%.
We are saying the same things: you upgrade when the battery is not good enough.
I upgrade (like I will next week) when the iOS version isn’t good enough. Both approaches work, but I don’t tolerate the middleman. The final segment of perilously worsening battery life. You do, and it’s okay. I don’t need MagSafe. I don’t need a battery pack. Not since the 6s. I never will. I don’t need to use my phone less to last me a day on a heavy day. I just charge it to 100%, use it for whatever I want with whatever brightness I want and I know it’ll last.
You’re okay with having an updated device that’s not up to par, I like it when I retire devices and they work well afterwards.
The day I truly need an iOS update, I’ll do it. That’s why I’ll update this iPhone 11 from iOS 14.6. Because we need to. But it’s a last resort measure, not the usual one.
Safari is a janky mess now. Six major versions behind. Not two, not three. Six. Apps start to dwindle... now! Six major versions behind. Not three.
My iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15 works perfectly even for Safari. I use it everyday. It takes longer to have significant issues, and by then... I’ll upgrade my iPhone like I’m upgrading now. I don’t really see the issue. What’s the problem with this?
You can't do that ... it's too old
It's too insecure
You're getting hacked right now by even touching something so old
/s