First Hand Reports on WWDC's Leopard 9A466

[TBaggins]

Quite remarkable to think about it - Machines designed to run OS 9 able to run all versions of OS X in a seamless fashion. I'm willing to wager that Leopard will run on the G3. I have 10.4.9 running on my Pismo 400 MHz also, and I'm looking forward to get Leopard running on it as well.

Thing is though- even if its technically feasible for Leopard to run on G3s, isn't it possible that Apple will use Leopard as an opportunity to 'incentive-ize' G3 owners into finally upgrading their machines? ...i.e. by having Leopard not support G3 Macs, even the fastest ones?

I don't want to be cynical about it, but I can just imagine someone at Apple saying at a meeting, "Hey, by the time Leopard launches, all the G3 Macs lines will have been discontinued for 5 years plus, 'cept for the iBook G3s. That's long enough, and if they don't like it, they can still run Tiger for a coupla years more. Whaddya say? Juicy Mac upgrade revenue goodness..."

 

[milo]

Thing is though- even if its technically feasible for Leopard to run on G3s, isn't it possible that Apple will use Leopard as an opportunity to 'incentive-ize' G3 owners into finally upgrading their machines? ...i.e. by having Leopard not support G3 Macs, even the fastest ones?

I don't want to be cynical about it, but I can just imagine someone at Apple saying at a meeting, "Hey, by the time Leopard launches, all the G3 Macs lines will have been discontinued for 5 years plus, 'cept for the iBook G3s. That's long enough, and if they don't like it, they can still run Tiger for a coupla years more. Whaddya say? Juicy Mac upgrade revenue goodness..."

They've already done that to some degree, artificially limit versions from running on machines that are capable of doing it. If they raise the requirements but the OS actually works, you'll probably still be able to install the newest OS using xpostfacto or a similar hack.

 

[CoreWeb]

Something has to launch to quickly look at the file. The hope (and likelihood) is that it's much quicker opening the plugin Quick Look viewer than opening the actual application.

However, it seems that cover flow is showing a snapshot, which should be equally fast for any file type.

But, CoverFlow also seems to have a built-in Quick Look. After all, right from CoverFlow you can play movie files and skim through PDF files.

 

[MBX]

someone please tell me asap if that ugly pseudo-3d-dock-floor can be de-activated. if not i hope unsanity (creators of shapeshifter) will do a leopard version of their cool little cleardock app.

 

[Peace]

someone please tell me asap if that ugly pseudo-3d-dock-floor can be de-activated. if not i hope unsanity (creators of shapeshifter) will do a leopard version of their cool little cleardock app.

Noit sure but I don't think Leopard will allow those type of haxies.I could be wrong though.

 

[andrewm]

Noit sure but I don't think Leopard will allow those type of haxies.I could be wrong though.

I'm no expert but I think that it'd be hard to preclude haxies from working, or at least being installed. The /System/Library folder can be made administrator-only, but there's nothing to keep a user from being an administrator (and it's even the default). Apple can't make the system Unix-like or BSD-like and disallow editing of any part of the system.

Now, they /could/ do some sort of checksumming thing on the sizes, dimensions, colors, dates of creation--et cetera--and put it into some sort of central system code, then compare the system graphics to it at startup, then disallow anyone from starting up if they were altered ("Please insert your original system disc for graphics restoration"). This seems a bit complicated, though.

 

[johngordon]

Folks with lots of graphics, photos, etc. to be throwing around might find this feature very useful.

I know I will - and the stacks thing. Perhaps the fan is a bit show-y - but the grid looks OK. I'm always cluttering my desktop with images downloaded from the likes of istockphoto, never bother to rename them, and have various works in progress using Fireworks - so the ability, with coverflow in the finder, or quick find, or stacks, to be more easily able to identify ones I'm looking for will be hugely useful.

All these new features, where you can more intuitively find files based on what they look like visually seems to me very useful.

Either way, presumbably you don't have to use them?

Without being too much of a techie, I'm in the 'what sorts of things did people expect?' camp.

 

[tuskertusker]

I really don't know how to feel about this cover flow thing.

On the one hand it seems like it could be useful. On the other hand it seems like Apple going out of its way to make the O/S look more and more like iTunes.

If thats the case, what is their motivation? Is it a subtle marketing ploy, are they being somewhat self congratulatory on iTunes success and therefore saying 'if its in iTunes, it must be good'?

Dunno. Someone else here said in another thread that cover flow in iTunes is of very limited value if your artwork isn't perfectly up to date, and in spite of Apples efforts to get the right album artwork to me, its still all a big mess.

Of course, cover flow in a documents scenario will be vastly different.

I guess I wished they had called it something else. My PDF's, videos, images etc don't have 'covers' so the name of this feature isn't even correct.

Ok, for everyone thats freaking out about this cover flow thing, first off, you can turn the dam feature off if you don't want it, so don't act like its a negative aspect of the new OS, its just simply another option for those who like it. Secondly, apple isn't trying to make the new os "more like iTunes". They released cover flow in the latest version of itunes to see if people like it. Since there has a been a positive response for it in itunes, apple decided to include it in leopard. If people didn't like cover flow, they would have nixed it. I think what apple is doing is smart. so ya, don't get too caught up in this anti cover flow thing.

 

[TBaggins]

Ok, for everyone thats freaking out about this cover flow thing, first off, you can turn the dam feature off if you don't want it, so don't act like its a negative aspect of the new OS, its just simply another option for those who like it.

Very true.

Secondly, apple isn't trying to make the new os "more like iTunes".

Probably UNtrue. Apple wants to lower barriers to Windows switchers coming over to the Mac, and one way to do that is to teach them how to use the Leopard Finder by making it like iTunes. "If you know how to use iTunes, you know how to use a Mac", essentially. And there are hundreds of millions of Windows users who run iTunes on their PCs. A lot of analysts have already commented about this.

However, no one should think of this as a negative. First off, iTunes is actually a pretty nice interface for a Finder. And secondly, as you said, if someone doesn't like the Cover Flow/iTunes-like Finder view, they can, by clicking on a single button, switch to one of three other Finder views. No fuss, no muss.

People who complain about an *optional* Finder view that they can easily switch probably shouldn't own computers anyway.

 

[MBX]

seriously, i'm curious what happens with the transparent menu-bar when your desktop color is black?

i dont use any pictures/ wallpapers but only blank black. will you still see anything? it seems as if the type is black, will it turn to white when you have a dark background?

i hope these apple ui people were bright enough to think about these things and/ or give us settings to change to our own needs.

 

[Yixian]

I can't believe the WWDC preview hasn't leaked to torrent sites yet :|

Disappointing show from the pirate community ^^

 

[flopticalcube]

It was and the torrents were removed fairly quickly.

 

[SheriffParker]

seriously, i'm curious what happens with the transparent menu-bar when your desktop color is black?

i dont use any pictures/ wallpapers but only blank black. will you still see anything? it seems as if the type is black, will it turn to white when you have a dark background?

i hope these apple ui people were bright enough to think about these things and/ or give us settings to change to our own needs.

In case you hadn't noticed, the menu bar is only semi-transparent. Even on a black background, it should be easy to read as the negative space inside the opaque white graphic.

 

[DMann]

9a466

It was and the torrents were removed fairly quickly.

Was it build 9A466 that was out there, or was it build 9A410? The two posted after WWDC turned out to be previous builds. Here's hoping.....

 

[Manic Mouse]

Jobs doesn't like styluses. If you watched the Macworld keynote in January, he bagged on them pretty hard during the iPhone presentation. Says they get lost a lot, and he's right.

.

Which means the iPhone will never reach it's full potential as you'll never be able to write on one and takes notes or draw on the screen. Which would be very handy and awesome. Sure, keep the stylus away from regular input, but as a notepad and drawing pad the iPhone would be awesome.

 

[andrewm]

Which means the iPhone will never reach it's full potential as you'll never be able to write on one and takes notes or draw on the screen. Which would be very handy and awesome. Sure, keep the stylus away from regular input, but as a notepad and drawing pad the iPhone would be awesome.

I think that Jobs wants to stay away from making the iPhone a PDA, at least for the moment--although, as we all know, he's prone to changing his mind on various things.

 

[Manic Mouse]

I think that Jobs wants to stay away from making the iPhone a PDA, at least for the moment--although, as we all know, he's prone to changing his mind on various things.

I think this is a case of throwing the baby out with the bath-water. Having a stylus as an option would vastly increase the potential of the iPhone and could mean the end of notepads for those who own one. All it would do is add to the phone. You don't have to use it for navigation. But for certain tasks like drawing and writing it would be perfect. As it stands the lack of one cripples the potential of the iPhone in that direction.

 

[GregA]

Having a stylus as an option would vastly increase the potential of the iPhone and could mean the end of notepads for those who own one. All it would do is add to the phone. You don't have to use it for navigation. But for certain tasks like drawing and writing it would be perfect. As it stands the lack of one cripples the potential of the iPhone in that direction.

One thing that Apple has done well in the past is to define a product that is limited in what it offers - but does what it does very well.

If Apple offered a stylus, then that's how people would use the phone. The reviews would focus on the stylus too. You can't use a stylus AND do pinch movements - the stylus turns the interface into a single touch system again.

I know you don't HAVE to use it... but people use what they're given. Apple gets a chance here to teach people a new way. In some ways I'd like to see Apple release an "iPad" the size of the old Newton Messagepad... but maybe that would limit people's use to what they expect.

 

[maxrobertson]

I'm no expert but I think that it'd be hard to preclude haxies from working, or at least being installed. The /System/Library folder can be made administrator-only, but there's nothing to keep a user from being an administrator (and it's even the default). Apple can't make the system Unix-like or BSD-like and disallow editing of any part of the system.

Now, they /could/ do some sort of checksumming thing on the sizes, dimensions, colors, dates of creation--et cetera--and put it into some sort of central system code, then compare the system graphics to it at startup, then disallow anyone from starting up if they were altered ("Please insert your original system disc for graphics restoration"). This seems a bit complicated, though.

Inputmanagers are said to no longer work in Leopard, and this is how most of those hacking applications work.
And with the dock specifically, I don't think it uses graphics. I think the background is drawn in there. I might be wrong though.

 

[@dakore]

Menu off

Fortunately, the transparent menu bar can be turned off.

How do you do this exactly?

It's gotta be the most annoying part of Finder, I have a heap of MacDesktop.com backgrounds that totally interfere with the writing in the menu bar, because of copywright info posted in the top left or right hand corner.

I do think that this build is by far the snappiest and most responsive system i've used bar none. I'm on 2.16C2D. So Leopard actually gives me the speed my computer was designed for.

I am really dissapointed that Apple thought that 1 million iphones were more important than the 10 million odd new intel Mac users.
Get Leopard ready Jobs! and hurry up!