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First Intel Penryn Based PCs Arrive... Apple to Follow?
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lets see what news we get on tuesday
There will be NO news on an updated Macbook Pro on Tuesday XIpenek. This thread is about Mac Pro workstations speculation, not Macbook Pros.
So do you think Apple will not get enough Penryn Xeons from Intel for a November shipping date? How about the top-of-the-line that have been rumored taken by Apple? Did you base your prediction on the fact that HP isn't getting them until January or is there something I missed?
I also just noticed that MR forum has become such a hostile environment- especially in the near-2000 thread. The mods can't allow a joke that has a little potential of "stirring things up". Oh well, I ain't the boss but I just wish this is not the future for MR.
So do you think Apple will not get enough Penryn Xeons from Intel for a November shipping date? How about the top-of-the-line that have been rumored taken by Apple? Did you base your prediction on the fact that HP isn't getting them until January or is there something I missed?
I think that it's a *very* bad sign that HP and Lenovo are quoting minimum 5 to 8 week availability.
In the past, during shortages (and early product ramps) Intel has allocated the available chips fairly according to the vendors' orders (for example, if Vendor A ordered 100,000 and Vendor B ordered 50,000 - then if only 15,000 were available A would get 10,000 and B would get 5,000).
The ramp for the faster speeds often lags the others - so it hasn't been unusual that the fast chips are in much shorter supply than the mid-range.
I don't find the rumours that Apple has snapped them all up to be believable.
After Monday we'll have a better idea about the Penryn ramp up, and maybe even an announcement from Cupertino to digest.
I can't wait for this upgrade, it'll only make the Mac Pro's that much better![]()
Electronista reports that HP has upgraded their workstations with the new Intel Penryn Xeon processors. The new 45-nm Xeon 5200 (dual core) and Xeon 5400 (quad core) processors can be configured in dual-processor configurations (up to 8 cores total).
Yesterday, Lenovo announced their first machines powered by the Intel Xeon 5400 processors.
Intel will be officially launching the Penryn processors on November 12th. Apple is expected to adopt the new procesors in a revision to the Mac Pro. The new Mac Pro is rumored to be ready to launch as soon as enough Intel processors become available.
Article Link
So, any idea if these 45 nm parts are pin-compatible with the current 65 nm parts? I wouldn't mind having a pop at dropping a pair in my Mac Pro.
Anyone got pricing for them?
Anyone know if the current 65 nm dual- and quad-core processors are in for a price drop?
Anyone got pricing for them?
Anyone know if the current 65 nm dual- and quad-core processors are in for a price drop?
They are, or at least Intel said they were and there hasn't been anything discounting it.
Prices out there at the moment on retailer websites show 3.16GHz for $1300, 3GHz for $950, 2.83GHz for $850 and 2GHz for $255. They may not drop for a while depending on supply. Better to look in a couple of weeks.
There has been no indication, you may be able to pick one up cheaper in the near future though.
Apple might not allow it
Not only Intel has to support it, but Apple has to as well.
On the Intel side, the best thing would be to go to the Intel server board site (http://www.intel.com/products/server/motherboard/index.htm?iid=mbd_main+sv) next week and look for the "5400" chipset boards.
Once those appear, you can assume that Intel has updated their pages. Look for the boards with the "5000X" chipset (that's whats in the Mac Pro), and see if the new 45nm Xeons are listed as supported by the 5000X.
You might see a footnote that the 5000X has to be at least a certain hardware rev and firmware rev.
That footnote is the clue that Apple might not support the chip. Earlier Mac Pros might not have the right hardware revision, if you have one of those you might be out of luck. If a firmware bump is required - again you depend on Apple.
Note that is very common for firmware (BIOS/EFI) revisions to be required for new processors. The new CPU has a new CPUID, and many BIOS programs check the CPUID and won't run if it's an unrecognized CPU. Sometimes the firmware patch is only to add the new CPUID to the table of supported CPUs - but without that simple patch it won't boot.
Since the Penryn has new instructions and new power management functions, you might not get the benefit of those even if by chance the old firmware accepts the chip. (Chips typically boot in a compatible mode, and require the firmware and operating system to explicitly enable new features. A Clovertown in an HP system, for example, can boot 16-bit MS-DOS from a floppy drive - at power-on it starts in 16-bit mode with 640 KiB of RAM. You may be booting a 64-bit operating system with 32 GiB, but the various BIOS/boot loaders/OS initialization routines turn that stuff on as they load.)
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All things considered, I'd look at the price of the new CPUs, the price of a new Mac Pro, and the value of your old Mac Pro on eBay.
It may be cheaper to get a new box - then you'd have a faster, newer machine with a full new warranty. (Faster because the Seaburg (5400) chipset has a better, faster memory system.)
Not only Intel has to support it, but Apple has to as well.
On the Intel side, the best thing would be to go to the Intel server board site (http://www.intel.com/products/server/motherboard/index.htm?iid=mbd_main+sv) next week and look for the "5400" chipset boards.
Once those appear, you can assume that Intel has updated their pages. Look for the boards with the "5000X" chipset (that's whats in the Mac Pro), and see if the new 45nm Xeons are listed as supported by the 5000X.
You might see a footnote that the 5000X has to be at least a certain hardware rev and firmware rev.
That footnote is the clue that Apple might not support the chip. Earlier Mac Pros might not have the right hardware revision, if you have one of those you might be out of luck. If a firmware bump is required - again you depend on Apple.
Note that is very common for firmware (BIOS/EFI) revisions to be required for new processors. The new CPU has a new CPUID, and many BIOS programs check the CPUID and won't run if it's an unrecognized CPU. Sometimes the firmware patch is only to add the new CPUID to the table of supported CPUs - but without that simple patch it won't boot.
Since the Penryn has new instructions and new power management functions, you might not get the benefit of those even if by chance the old firmware accepts the chip. (Chips typically boot in a compatible mode, and require the firmware and operating system to explicitly enable new features. A Clovertown in an HP system, for example, can boot 16-bit MS-DOS from a floppy drive - at power-on it starts in 16-bit mode with 640 KiB of RAM. You may be booting a 64-bit operating system with 32 GiB, but the various BIOS/boot loaders/OS initialization routines turn that stuff on as they load.)
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All things considered, I'd look at the price of the new CPUs, the price of a new Mac Pro, and the value of your old Mac Pro on eBay.
It may be cheaper to get a new box - then you'd have a faster, newer machine with a full new warranty. (Faster because the Seaburg (5400) chipset has a better, faster memory system.)
Andy,
Come back next week, after you hear nothing from Cupertino.
The HP/Lenovo ship dates make me believe that a MWSF announcement in January looks quite possible
I think the HP/Lenovo ship dates indicate that Apple has cornered the majority of Intel's Harpertowns inititally, forcing the other vendors to ship later. Apple will ship next week.
While I fear Aiden is correct about MWSF, add me to the list that hopes you are correct as well... although I don't catch the meaning of the Hector Ruiz reference... would this be good for AMD as well? (Sorry for needing to be hand-held...
)What are the chances of ability to be able to choose from more of the aftermarket cards?
If Intel ticks off HP/Dell/IBM and the others by giving all the Penryns to Apple - you'll see a lot of Barcelonas showing up in x64 servers.
Unlike Apple, the other guys have a choice and will punish Intel in the order department.
P.s. I don't think that there's much chance of Apple grabbing all the chips - Intel will allocate based on orders, and the other guys buy a *LOT* more Xeons than Apple.
Apple's share of the x64 server market is almost sliver thin - most of the CPUs that Apple buys are laptop CPUs.
Even the unsupported rumours were about high-end chips - what a leap to believe that Apple's taking all the slow chips too...
https://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/05/apple-buying-up-high-end-penryn-processors/
Oh - makes sense. Sheesh - shows how Apple-centric I am. What, there're other manufacturers out there?
I've wanted a mac pro forever....
First the 8 core machines were on the horizon so i waited....
Then when they came out, the video cards were already outdated and component prices were kindof inflated compared to other vendors due to the machines specs showing age, and leopard was on the horizon.... so i waited...
Then leopard came out, and the pro was totally overpriced as all it's components had become much cheaper in the two years since in was new.... not to mention it's obsolete video options. It hadn't had a refresh in forever, and a refresh was on the horizon.... so i'm still waiting....
I'd cave and buy one now, because i could really use it for my productivity, but the other kicker is I'm in Canada and our dollar is worth $1.10 american and a Canadian ordered mac pro costs ast least $450 more than the U.S. one.... Not much sense in that when there's free trade on components.... (isn't there?) I'd gladly pay $50 on top of the american price for shipping or something, but not $400+
If they'd fix the prices I'd considering buying one now.... I can't justify $3000 on a base spec machine from 2006 though...... After waiting this long though i might as well just keep waiting....
If they don't fix the exchange rate when they refresh the product it's gonna be such a kick in the teeth after this long wait...
On the other hand, it's nice for the current pro owners that apple doesn't rush into releases with the hardware... at least you can feel 'current' for a while
First the 8 core machines were on the horizon so i waited....
Then when they came out, the video cards were already outdated and component prices were kindof inflated compared to other vendors due to the machines specs showing age, and leopard was on the horizon.... so i waited...
Then leopard came out, and the pro was totally overpriced as all it's components had become much cheaper in the two years since in was new.... not to mention it's obsolete video options. It hadn't had a refresh in forever, and a refresh was on the horizon.... so i'm still waiting....
I'd cave and buy one now, because i could really use it for my productivity, but the other kicker is I'm in Canada and our dollar is worth $1.10 american and a Canadian ordered mac pro costs ast least $450 more than the U.S. one.... Not much sense in that when there's free trade on components.... (isn't there?) I'd gladly pay $50 on top of the american price for shipping or something, but not $400+
If they'd fix the prices I'd considering buying one now.... I can't justify $3000 on a base spec machine from 2006 though...... After waiting this long though i might as well just keep waiting....
If they don't fix the exchange rate when they refresh the product it's gonna be such a kick in the teeth after this long wait...
On the other hand, it's nice for the current pro owners that apple doesn't rush into releases with the hardware... at least you can feel 'current' for a while
I've wanted a mac pro forever....
First the 8 core machines were on the horizon so i waited....
Then when they came out, the video cards were already outdated and component prices were kindof inflated compared to other vendors due to the machines specs showing age, and leopard was on the horizon.... so i waited...
Then leopard came out, and the pro was totally overpriced as all it's components had become much cheaper in the two years since in was new.... not to mention it's obsolete video options. It hadn't had a refresh in forever, and a refresh was on the horizon.... so i'm still waiting....
I'd cave and buy one now, because i could really use it for my productivity, but the other kicker is I'm in Canada and our dollar is worth $1.10 american and a Canadian ordered mac pro costs ast least $450 more than the U.S. one.... Not much sense in that when there's free trade on components.... (isn't there?) I'd gladly pay $50 on top of the american price for shipping or something, but not $400+
If they'd fix the prices I'd considering buying one now.... I can't justify $3000 on a base spec machine from 2006 though...... After waiting this long though i might as well just keep waiting....
If they don't fix the exchange rate when they refresh the product it's gonna be such a kick in the teeth after this long wait...
On the other hand, it's nice for the current pro owners that apple doesn't rush into releases with the hardware... at least you can feel 'current' for a while
You can always do the US Education discount on apple
I'm really torn here. Aiden, you seem to be the most knowledgeable person posting in this thread, but you're not telling me what I want to hear! You keep making great arguments for MWSF, so I keep trying to come up with counters.
1) How many more units does HP & the rest plan to sell over Apple? HP probably has a later ship date because they don't expect to have enough chips to meet initial orders, whereas maybe since Apple will sell a much smaller number of systems, they'll have enough chips to immediately ship.
2) If Apple did buy a large number of the first bin (I know it's just a rumor at this point) would the other companies really be that mad at Intel? I mean, do you think Apple having the latest chip available 1 month earlier is going to make the other guys shun Intel? If Apple ships first by a month, would that cause anyone to switch platforms? I doubt it. If I have to wait until February, God forbid, for a Penryn MacPro, then I have to wait. I'm not switching to HP because I can get one in Dec/Jan.
Besides, isn't Intel vastly superior to its competition? If so, then they have the upper hand and can do whatever they want.
Thoughts, anyone?
I agree, the Intels are just superior and with this new 45nm shooting star cpu its just going to blow away AMD. Im wrestling with just waiting. Sure would love to see another QuicksilverI type redo and thats a base PowerMac that you could call a Consumer Tower. Its whats needed if Apple is to stingy to give us a consumer tower. Anyways the new benches for this chip are terrific.