First Mac Pros Begin Arriving Ahead of Christmas

[Spinland]

At the very least, what you describe is a proper tool, granted, but that only moderately well-off people can afford. $3.5k is a LOT of money, whatever way you put it.

As an investment that will pay for itself plus a living wage? I don't now about well-off, but in that context is how I ordered mine. A professional auto mechanic spends way more than that on a good set of Snap-On tools, which with he will earn his livelihood. That's how I see the Mac Pro, not as some bauble or toy for the well-off.

 

[danny_w]

As an investment that will pay for itself plus a living wage? I don't now about well-off, but in that context is how I ordered mine. A professional auto mechanic spends way more than that on a good set of Snap-On tools, which with he will earn his livelihood. That's how I see the Mac Pro, not as some bauble or toy for the well-off.

Well said. I don't get it how people here call call a professional tool "expensive" and only for the rich. All kinds of professionals have always had to pay for tools, but those same tools pay for themselves by helping to make a living. It has nothing to do with being rich, with the possible exception that good tools can help you be more productive and therefore possibly make more money. My daddy always said "use the proper tool for the job" and he was absolutely correct (a cheap wrench slips and skins your knuckles so that you can't work, and therefore costs much more money than a good wrench...)

 

[laurim]

Well said. I don't get it how people here call call a professional tool "expensive" and only for the rich. All kinds of professionals have always had to pay for tools, but those same tools pay for themselves by helping to make a living. It has nothing to do with being rich, with the possible exception that good tools can help you be more productive and therefore possibly make more money. My daddy always said "use the proper tool for the job" and he was absolutely correct (a cheap wrench slips and skins your knuckles so that you can't work, and therefore costs much more money than a good wrench...)

Amen. Rich people pay a lot for a tool they DON'T actually need. Professionals pay more for a tool they DO need and it pays for itself many times over in the end. Yeah, I make more than the average person BECAUSE I own Apple products, not vice versa. If I had to use a Windows-based computer or a consumer-level Mac, I probably would be in a different business, probably making less money and probably stuck working for a corporation in a tiny cubicle, slowly dying. Been there, done that, never again. I'd rather be free as a bird, working for myself and lending my clients a sympathetic ear when they complain to me how much they hate their corporate job.

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There's no point in developing for each and every browser. Only those that conform to standards. That's what standards are for.

Try telling that to a client and see how they react when you want them to not sell to a large segment of possible customers. That kind of "screw those people" only works for low-end and personal websites.

Granted, web designers have it much easier than when I was a web designer ten years ago. Chasing browser differences was much harder back then and the primary reason I changed careers. OTOH, now you also have to design for mobile devices so maybe that evens things out.

 

[Cubytus]

As an investment that will pay for itself plus a living wage? I don't now about well-off, but in that context is how I ordered mine. A professional auto mechanic spends way more than that on a good set of Snap-On tools, which with he will earn his livelihood. That's how I see the Mac Pro, not as some bauble or toy for the well-off.

When you get a wage for a job, your employer usually provides you with the proper tools. Granted, they may be just "sufficient" and not "optimal". You would have gotten the same power and more screen estate in the form of an iMac, for example.

Another man I knew learnt every keyboard shortcut and nooks and crannies of all Windows OS since NT, was able to pinpoint and repair that dreaded registry by hand, and was probably more efficient in his job than us.

(...)Yeah, I make more than the average person BECAUSE I own Apple products, not vice versa.

Just curious how you made that causal link.

Yes, I do agree that, for many people, having a more efficient OS is time saved and in the end, more time spent on useful work. But this is a link far from obvious, especially for all those that prefer to buy a low-speced run-of-the-mill PC, hoping to get more money afterwards to get a better machine. Try to convince anybody what benefit he or she could get out of a Mac. I fail most of the time on my part-time job, as I failed to convince one user that his $99 Android tablet was worthless, even to Android's standards.

Try telling that to a client and see how they react when you want them to not sell to a large segment of possible customers. That kind of "screw those people" only works for low-end and personal websites.

Granted, web designers have it much easier than when I was a web designer ten years ago. Chasing browser differences was much harder back then and the primary reason I changed careers. OTOH, now you also have to design for mobile devices so maybe that evens things out.

What would you say about Apple's decision to leave Flash behind at a time everybody couldn't think of a Web without Flash? On the other hand, surely you can fetch greater money out of testing the website on every browser imaginable from IE4.

Personally I can't even fetch a file from Mega (small, free, closed-source applications most of the time) using Safari. Not sure you can say that Mega is a small company.

 

[calaverasgrande]

There's no point in developing for each and every browser. Only those that conform to standards. That's what standards are for.

That is only true if you are doing intranet sites.
While there are certainly standards, the 4 main browsers still aren't 100% the same. At my former job at an ad agency we had a whole dept just to vet the browsers/platforms. It's still an issue.

We surely don't call the same things "middle class". The "middle class" is the one struggling to make ends meet despite decent salary, the "middle class" has the burden of most taxes, the "middle class" can't afford to send two kids in $15k a year colleges. The "middle class" spends its days running wild between job, kids, tv, and lack of sleep.

At the very least, what you describe is a proper tool, granted, but that only moderately well-off people can afford. $3.5k is a LOT of money, whatever way you put it.

I suppose we do have a different view of the middle class. While some middle class folks are struggling, people that are not struggling are not rich. They just aren't poor.
My probably old fashioned view is that lower class folks are those that work hourly jobs and are not making more than what covers their expenses.
Middle class folks are what are classically described as bourgeois. Professional and skilled trades. Career management, on up to the lower echelons of upper management.
I bought a $5000 config for a couple reasons, chief of which was that I am on a computer 60 hours or more in a week.
But it didn't hurt that it is made in the USA, and in some small way contributes to a middle class, instead of draining it away.

 

[Spinland]

When you get a wage for a job, your employer usually provides you with the proper tools. Granted, they may be just "sufficient" and not "optimal".

Fair enough, but these days I don't have an employer: I own the business and I'm the one providing the tools. I feel I've made excellent choices.

 

[Cubytus]

Fair enough, but these days I don't have an employer: I own the business and I'm the one providing the tools. I feel I've made excellent choices.

Then if you're the boss you no longer qualify as "middle-class" salaryman.

I suppose we do have a different view of the middle class. While some middle class folks are struggling, people that are not struggling are not rich. They just aren't poor.
My probably old fashioned view is that lower class folks are those that work hourly jobs and are not making more than what covers their expenses.
Middle class folks are what are classically described as bourgeois. Professional and skilled trades. Career management, on up to the lower echelons of upper management.
I bought a $5000 config for a couple reasons, chief of which was that I am on a computer 60 hours or more in a week.
But it didn't hurt that it is made in the USA, and in some small way contributes to a middle class, instead of draining it away.

Middle-class and bourgeois are not the same, the latter having a higher status.

Middle-class people drive Sonata, Camry-s, american minivans and live in $150k to $350k homes while being heavily indebted, work yearly jobs, are small professionals or skilled trades, while bourgeois drive Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti and live in $350k-$600k homes, and work managerial jobs. And lower classes go by bus or Accents and other used models, work hourly jobs with few responsibilities, and can't afford to buy a house while spending a third to half of their income on the rent.

While middle-class don't classify as poor by an absolute measure, they are the core, most solicited taxpayers because they are not rich enough to afford tax abatement through clever financial setups that bourgeois can afford, while not being poor enough to avoid income tax as the poorest can. They're the ones most affected when a commodity price increases, and the ones who are really worried about retirement income since they can't save enough, and can't easily climb the remaining steps to the bourgeois class.

 

[Spinland]

Then if you're the boss you no longer qualify as "middle-class" salaryman.

Methinks you have a vastly over-inflated impression of how much I earned in 2013.

 

[Cubytus]

Methinks you have a vastly over-inflated impression of how much I earned in 2013.

That's very well possible. Having fallen from a middle-class family to the poorest (side for the homeless, which I was a part of about 2 years ago) and hoping to enter the bourgeois, I may be lost. But if you could invest in a $3k machine, times the number of your employees, without putting your business in jeopardy or compromising your own, yearly investment in retirement, then it's not doing that bad.

Keeping a business up and running is not a small expense.

 

[laurim]

Then if you're the boss you no longer qualify as "middle-class" salaryman.

Middle-class and bourgeois are not the same, the latter having a higher status.

Middle-class people drive Sonata, Camry-s, american minivans and live in $150k to $350k homes while being heavily indebted, work yearly jobs, are small professionals or skilled trades, while bourgeois drive Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti and live in $350k-$600k homes, and work managerial jobs. And lower classes go by bus or Accents and other used models, work hourly jobs with few responsibilities, and can't afford to buy a house while spending a third to half of their income on the rent.

While middle-class don't classify as poor by an absolute measure, they are the core, most solicited taxpayers because they are not rich enough to afford tax abatement through clever financial setups that bourgeois can afford, while not being poor enough to avoid income tax as the poorest can. They're the ones most affected when a commodity price increases, and the ones who are really worried about retirement income since they can't save enough, and can't easily climb the remaining steps to the bourgeois class.

I live in a 960 square foot house built in 1959 I bought in 1998 for $99,500 and drive a 14 year old Plymouth Neon. BUT, my career is important to me and I will buy at least one, probably two of the MacPros because they will enable me to make me the money I need to pay my bills and some creature comforts like a nice vacation every other year. I have ZERO interest in attempting to do the same career with a Windows computer, I hate using them that much. Even if you gave me free super PCs for life I would turn them down. BTW- when I say "business" I mean a freelance business with only one employee, myself.

When you get a wage for a job, your employer usually provides you with the proper tools. Granted, they may be just "sufficient" and not "optimal". You would have gotten the same power and more screen estate in the form of an iMac, for example.

You don't know what I do with a computer so don't assume an iMac would have enough computing power for me. You have no idea how much a high definition particle emitter with filters on it chews up gpu and cpu power. I also like to upgrade graphics cards to prolong the useful life of a computer and that's not possible with an iMac.

Just curious how you made that causal link.

As I said above, if I had to use a PC for my career, I would do something else that wouldn't rely so much on a computer.

What would you say about Apple's decision to leave Flash behind at a time everybody couldn't think of a Web without Flash? On the other hand, surely you can fetch greater money out of testing the website on every browser imaginable from IE4.

Considering that it pushed most people who would have used Flash exclusively to get on an html5 standard, which doesn't rely on plug-ins, I think it's a great thing. When I was designing websites, I was taught having an all-Flash site was a bad thing. This was way before Apple decided not to support Flash.

Personally I can't even fetch a file from Mega (small, free, closed-source applications most of the time) using Safari. Not sure you can say that Mega is a small company.

Never heard of that website so I can't speak to how large a company that is, lol. If they were a decent company, they would have developed a download app like Dropbox has.

 

[renniemart]

I also bought one Mac Pro. and believe me I am not rich. Its just the passion to buy things by saving money. Anyone can do that... Right?

 

[jjahshik32]

I think 3.5k is a lot of money but not a small fortune. I've seen small business owners spend easily 15k to even 50k for machines/tools/merchandise that they need to get their business running.

 

[balamw]

I think 3.5k is a lot of money but not a small fortune. I've seen small business owners spend easily 15k to even 50k for machines/tools/merchandise that they need to get their business running.

I was chatting with the owner of a stationery store in town that was telling me his credit card reader for his POS system costs him $1,000 and has to be replaced approximately every two years.

B

 

[Cubytus]

I live in a 960 square foot house built in 1959 I bought in 1998 for $99,500 and drive a 14 year old Plymouth Neon. BUT, my career is important to me and I will buy at least one, probably two of the MacPros because they will enable me to make me the money I need to pay my bills and some creature comforts like a nice vacation every other year. I have ZERO interest in attempting to do the same career with a Windows computer, I hate using them that much. Even if you gave me free super PCs for life I would turn them down. BTW- when I say "business" I mean a freelance business with only one employee, myself.



You don't know what I do with a computer so don't assume an iMac would have enough computing power for me. You have no idea how much a high definition particle emitter with filters on it chews up gpu and cpu power. I also like to upgrade graphics cards to prolong the useful life of a computer and that's not possible with an iMac.

You're right, I don't know your job, although from the "particle" part, I assume it has something to do with 3D renderings, although your previous posts were about website design. That's not at all the same business. So I am at a loss here.

Acting as the devil's advocate, you probably already know that major productivity applications work both in Windows and Mac OS X? What differences a Mac does as you never get exit the productivity application?

From the teardown, it is not possible in the new MacPro either. I don't know what Apple was thinking when they designed a completely un-upgradeable machine for pros.

I really hope your home electrical circuit was upgraded since the 50's, because it typically means no grounding, few circuits, and cloth-insulated wires.

Considering that it pushed most people who would have used Flash exclusively to get on an html5 standard, which doesn't rely on plug-ins, I think it's a great thing. When I was designing websites, I was taught having an all-Flash site was a bad thing. This was way before Apple decided not to support Flash.

I can say you were pretty much at the forefront of your trade. So many common websites still rely on Flash-only, such as Arecont's. Which brings me back to the question: do you have to design intentionally non-standard-compliant websites ?

Never heard of that website so I can't speak to how large a company that is, lol. If they were a decent company, they would have developed a download app like Dropbox has.

Biggest direct-download company. No, they aren't near "decent", but they're big. And their website is awful, even on a supported browser.
Another company you surely have heard of: craigslist. They made a specialty of not upgrading their looks, ever.

I think 3.5k is a lot of money but not a small fortune. I've seen small business owners spend easily 15k to even 50k for machines/tools/merchandise that they need to get their business running.

There's a difference between business expenses that you can get tax refund for, and personal expenses that you really can't deduct. (I am not saying that's fair as spent money still goes back into the economy, but that's the way it is.)

 

[calaverasgrande]

Then if you're the boss you no longer qualify as "middle-class" salaryman.

Middle-class and bourgeois are not the same, the latter having a higher status.

Middle-class people drive Sonata, Camry-s, american minivans and live in $150k to $350k homes while being heavily indebted, work yearly jobs, are small professionals or skilled trades, while bourgeois drive Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti and live in $350k-$600k homes, and work managerial jobs. And lower classes go by bus or Accents and other used models, work hourly jobs with few responsibilities, and can't afford to buy a house while spending a third to half of their income on the rent.

While middle-class don't classify as poor by an absolute measure, they are the core, most solicited taxpayers because they are not rich enough to afford tax abatement through clever financial setups that bourgeois can afford, while not being poor enough to avoid income tax as the poorest can. They're the ones most affected when a commodity price increases, and the ones who are really worried about retirement income since they can't save enough, and can't easily climb the remaining steps to the bourgeois class.

As I stated, I was using the classical definition of bourgeois, not the pejorative. To be strict, this would mean merchants, small business owners, doctors, professors and so on. Not as much to do with money or assets, but rather that they are the learned, industrious, highly skilled "middle" of any society dating back to the Bronze age.
Above this you always have the political classes and often theocratic classes as well. Below this are the laborers, sharecroppers and in ancient civilizations (as well as our not too distant past) slaves and bondsmen.

Your distinction is between different levels of the middle class. To be honest, we don't really have anything but one big middle class in the US. With a tiny upper class that makes our decisions for us (oops I got political).


But more to the point, here is an example.
Say you want to be a Journeyman Carpenter.
You need a truck, lets say a used Toyota long bed.
And you need tools, you can't really go used here unless you buy new replacement batteries, and since you will be using your tools all day long, may as well go whole hog.
A used Toyota pickup in running shape would start at $3k in most markets.
A full set of Dewalt or Makita runs easily several hundred on up to a grand.
So you are talking roughly the equivalent of a mid level Mac Pro.

The only difference is the perception that a carpenter is a low class job because it involves labor, while a graphic artist/developer/photographer is perceived as upper class because they sit in a chair?

 

[laurim]

You're right, I don't know your job, although from the "particle" part, I assume it has something to do with 3D renderings, although your previous posts were about website design. That's not at all the same business. So I am at a loss here.

I USED to do website design about ten years ago. Now I do motion graphics design for live shows and some work with online education.

Acting as the devil's advocate, you probably already know that major productivity applications work both in Windows and Mac OS X? What differences a Mac does as you never get exit the productivity application?

My main design software is Apple Motion which is NOT on Windows at all. As far as using a Windows machine during a live show, it would take me a while to enumerate the number of times a Windows machine has causes us problems, either because it failed during a show or caused issues in the setup for the show. And it didn't fail because of the hardware, it failed from the way Windows is designed. I don't like the way Windows organizes files. I don't like the myriad of steps it takes to set up a network or change various other settings compared to how it works on a Mac. I don't have time to fart around with stuff like that. I've also had many issues with trying to remove a piece of software I no longer want on a PC and I've also had to fix my sister's machine that became unusable because apparently a piece of software installed improperly and she (AND her son AND our brother who actually own pcs) couldn't figure out how to fix it.

From the teardown, it is not possible in the new MacPro either. I don't know what Apple was thinking when they designed a completely un-upgradeable machine for pros.

Apparently you completely misunderstood the teardown because it quite clearly says the cpu, video cards, RAM and ssd storage are all upgradeable.

I really hope your home electrical circuit was upgraded since the 50's, because it typically means no grounding, few circuits, and cloth-insulated wires.

American houses built in 1959 have normal wiring and started out with 60 amp fuse boxes but now I have an upgraded 100 amp box with circuit breakers and empty slots for adding more circuits. Wish I had 150 or 200amp boxes for when I fully finish my basement but it's fine for now. What you are describing is more like a 100 year old house.

I can say you were pretty much at the forefront of your trade. So many common websites still rely on Flash-only, such as Arecont's. Which brings me back to the question: do you have to design intentionally non-standard-compliant websites ?

Biggest direct-download company. No, they aren't near "decent", but they're big. And their website is awful, even on a supported browser.
Another company you surely have heard of: craigslist. They made a specialty of not upgrading their looks, ever.

Never heard of Arecont, either. Tried Arecont.com and got a log-in for an energy company so couldn't look at it. Frankly, I don't know many all-Flash websites, except maybe design house sites... definitely none that are trying to sell things and reach the widest audience. Your favorite websites are very niche and not representative of most sites. Yes, craigslist has a minimal design totally appropriate for what they are trying to do.

No, I didn't build non-standards-compliant sites. I built standards-compliant sites that detected non-compliant browsers and used code to compensate for their non-compliance.

P.S. I just had two bathrooms worked on in my house and both the plumber and the tile guy make way more per hour than I do.

 

[Cubytus]

As I stated, I was using the classical definition of bourgeois, not the pejorative. To be strict, this would mean merchants, small business owners, doctors, professors and so on.

Well I tried to avoid any pejorative description here

Now, professors don't qualify as bourgeois here. They're mostly middle-class, to upper middle-class, but definitely don't have enough assets to qualify as bourgeois. OTOH, doctors and especially dentists are bourgeois.

Not as much to do with money or assets, but rather that they are the learned, industrious, highly skilled "middle" of any society dating back to the Bronze age.
Above this you always have the political classes and often theocratic classes as well. Below this are the laborers, sharecroppers and in ancient civilizations (as well as our not too distant past) slaves and bondsmen.

Your distinction is between different levels of the middle class. To be honest, we don't really have anything but one big middle class in the US. With a tiny upper class that makes our decisions for us (oops I got political).

That's a fundamental difference between US society and other western societies. Outside of the US, social class is defined by earning power and assets, and definitely not knowledge. You can be part of a poor class while being highly learnt (thanks to having an education that used to be accessible), or part of a somewhat affluent class with relatively few knowledge (say, you're a school dropout but have success in business).

Your last "political" statement describes the elite. That's a step above the "bourgeois". But it all boils down to how much classes you see in society. I see 5: homeless, poor, middle-class (with three subdivisions, lower, middle, upper), bourgeois, elite (which has connection to the ruling circles). In US-related news, we keep on hearing that there's a very numerous poor class that nobody ever talks about.

But more to the point, here is an example.
Say you want to be a Journeyman Carpenter.
You need a truck, lets say a used Toyota long bed.
And you need tools, you can't really go used here unless you buy new replacement batteries, and since you will be using your tools all day long, may as well go whole hog.
A used Toyota pickup in running shape would start at $3k in most markets.
A full set of Dewalt or Makita runs easily several hundred on up to a grand.
So you are talking roughly the equivalent of a mid level Mac Pro.

The only difference is the perception that a carpenter is a low class job because it involves labor, while a graphic artist/developer/photographer is perceived as upper class because they sit in a chair?

No, both chose their trade, and I wouldn't qualify a journeyman carpenter as low-class. It all depends on how much they can accumulate as assets. But if a poor man with good will and a few savings can start as a carpenter, he might not jump right away to the best tools available, but rather start small but reliable, and grow up from there, until the point he can buy more reliable and specialized tools.

I knew a guy, excellent salesman, who came from a poor family, worked his way up a telemarketing company, left, and invested his savings in a used, but large box-truck and started his moving company. Within two years, he had enough to buy a S63, and had left-overs. Without a family to support, he ascended to the bourgeois class. People aren't attached to any class.

 

[Cubytus]

Welcome cross-post

I USED to do website design about ten years ago. Now I do motion graphics design for live shows and some work with online education.

Never thought this kind of producer wouldn't employ some large company for that kind of work. Eh, more job for you

As far as using a Windows machine during a live show, it would take me a while to enumerate the number of times a Windows machine has causes us problems, either because it failed during a show or caused issues in the setup for the show.

Isn't that called "VJ'ing" ? Surely the requirements of real-time effects are much bigger than offline edition. Just curious to know more about usage of Macs outside the scientific field (mine).

On the other hand, I also rely on my Mac for all my jobs, and I don't count the number of time it failed on me. Much less than previous Windows I operated (not necessarily owned), but still: freezing Safari, crashing LibreOffice, half-crashed Finder, frozen password box on screen, and that permanent bug with FireWire drives not restarting after a long idle (Apple and various disk providers keep on blaming each other), leaving me enough time to save everything before closing it, but a pain nevertheless.

I don't like the way Windows organizes files. I don't like the myriad of steps it takes to set up a network or change various other settings compared to how it works on a Mac. I don't have time to fart around with stuff like that.

I do now understand better what a mentor mine said a few years ago before I got my first full-time Mac, in more elegant terms: "I know how to operate a Windows PC, and actually am pretty good at it, but I am more efficient still on a Mac because it's so beautiful. Beauty gives efficiency". He had Tiger running back then.

I've also had many issues with trying to remove a piece of software I no longer want on a PC and I've also had to fix my sister's machine that became unusable because apparently a piece of software installed improperly and she (AND her son AND our brother who actually own pcs) couldn't figure out how to fix it.

Also my part-time job. Often, it gets so boring that I wish I could simply back up each home folder and reformat everything. For many software you spend so much time looking for a solution to cleanly remove them that you could spend less time reformatting.

Apparently you completely misunderstood the teardown because it quite clearly says the cpu, video cards, RAM and ssd storage are all upgradeable.

Graphics card and SSD have proprietary connectors. Therefore, not upgradeable by any standard mean. No room inside for existing hard drives you may have, and no proper Thunderbolt enclosure yet to put them in.
CPU is upgradeable, if you completely dismantle the machine first (losing warranty in the process I guess). Not sure I would want to do that on a brand new $3k+ machine.

American houses built in 1959 have normal wiring and started out with 60 amp fuse boxes but now I have an upgraded 100 amp box with circuit breakers and empty slots for adding more circuits. Wish I had 150 or 200amp boxes for when I fully finish my basement but it's fine for now. What you are describing is more like a 100 year old house.

As we tend to follow US standards very closely, I am surprised. This apt. is only 7yrs older than your house, and is far from uncommon a setup. A friend of mine lives in a early-60's apt. Has been cabled with a 240V input for the stove, but otherwise has 3 ungrounded circuits in a fuse box, but had seen a strangely high rate of failure in her electronic devices that ceased once she ran a large cord from the grounded, 120V stove output. And an electrician girl I dated a while back confirmed most apartments from this era in this city had similar, dangerous setups. I guess they're still acceptable though, as no fire marshall ever took the pain of at least calling me or my landlord back about them.

Never heard of Arecont, either. Tried Arecont.com and got a log-in for an energy company so couldn't look at it. Frankly, I don't know many all-Flash websites, except maybe design house sites... definitely none that are trying to sell things and reach the widest audience. Your favorite websites are very niche and not representative of most sites. Yes, craigslist has a minimal design totally appropriate for what they are trying to do.

Surely I don't consider my examples as being representative. Just sites I come across or have some key feature relying on non-standard technology.
Arecont: pages listing retailers are Flash-only.
The Register: videos can't play without Flash.
Radio-Canada: same.

No, I didn't build non-standards-compliant sites. I built standards-compliant sites that detected non-compliant browsers and used code to compensate for their non-compliance.

There's a limit to compensating IMHO. Standard website for standards-compliant browser, a more basic, but complete and still standard website when a non-compliant browser is detected. And provide manual override links if the viewer still wants to try.

P.S. I just had two bathrooms worked on in my house and both the plumber and the tile guy make way more per hour than I do.

Their max salary will probably much less than yours as you develop your business

 

[applegeek97]

Mac pros are trickling into retail stores! I saw this one at the bay street store in Emeryville ca!

 

[griz]

What config are you looking at that's "faster"? The base Pro has dual graphics, Xeon processor, PCIe flash, and 1866MHz RAM that the iMac doesn't, even when you upgrade it.

iMac (27-inch Late 2013)
Intel Core i7-4771 3500 MHz (4 cores)

On Geekbench it rates right above the base MacPro model.
Add a 512GB SSD, 16GB of RAM and it's still $100 cheaper than the Mac Pro.
Oh, and it comes with a gorgeous screen.

 

[RighteousNixon]

Wow can't believe they would just leave a $2000 + package on your doorstep. I would complain

Not me, I would have just said I never received it, lol.

As for the people suggesting you need to be rich to buy a 3500 dollar computer, that is pure nonsense. Most people would be shocked at how much they could save if they stopped spending money. Most people spend a couple hundred bucks a month on fast food, cigarettes and alcohol. Yes, its a good deal of money, but its within most people's reach if they stopped wasting money and really started saving. Most people are just completely incapable of saving money and that makes a 3500 purchase unattainable.

 

[Cubytus]

About the crappy service UPS gives, I was issued a tracking number for a return package from a company that doesn't provide any other shipping option, and it is impossible to track. Thanks UPS for being so constant in sh¡tty service.

Not me, I would have just said I never received it, lol.

As for the people suggesting you need to be rich to buy a 3500 dollar computer, that is pure nonsense. Most people would be shocked at how much they could save if they stopped spending money. Most people spend a couple hundred bucks a month on fast food, cigarettes and alcohol. Yes, its a good deal of money, but its within most people's reach if they stopped wasting money and really started saving. Most people are just completely incapable of saving money and that makes a 3500 purchase unattainable.

I maintain what I said. Even not smoking nor drinking nor eating out, you can still be unable to save any significant amount of money.

 

[SpanishTony]

Re "Expensive@ only for the rich

Well said. I don't get it how people here call call a professional tool "expensive" and only for the rich. All kinds of professionals have always had to pay for tools, but those same tools pay for themselves by helping to make a living. It has nothing to do with being rich, with the possible exception that good tools can help you be more productive and therefore possibly make more money. My daddy always said "use the proper tool for the job" and he was absolutely correct (a cheap wrench slips and skins your knuckles so that you can't work, and therefore costs much more money than a good wrench...)

In 1989 the year I bought my first Mac, the correct tool for the job was a Mac IICX (16mhz processor) which I paid around £4500 for, without a monitor. Processing power doesn't seem too expensive now does it....

 

[rwarren1]

In 1989 the year I bought my first Mac, the correct tool for the job was a Mac IICX (16mhz processor) which I paid around £4500 for, without a monitor. Processing power doesn't seem too expensive now does it....

I was going to make this same point. In the late 80s (88 or 89), I paid almost $2,000 for an 8 MHz 286 clone with 1 MB of RAM and a 40 MB hard drive. Using an inflation calculator, that is $3,868 in 2014 dollars. $3,500 for a well equipped Mac Pro sounds cheap.