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It's two pounds lighter. And I don't consider it only "slightly" thicker.

A 17" MBP is "only" 2 lbs heavier than a 15 and only "slightly" wider, but boy does that make a huge difference in portability.

I agree the MB performs better and is cheaper. But for some people (like me), I don't mind spending extra to get that weight down and to allow for a smaller bag. I can get a thin portfolio style briefcase now and have room for some files and this computer.

And that's perfect for me.

If I wasn't using the MP as my primary computer, then of course I would keep the MBP instead. Because then I would need more speed, an optical, etc. But right now I very often leave the MBP in the hotel and use my even slower, less capable iPhone because the MBP is just too bulky.

Yeah.

I kind of wish people had an easier time realizing that not everyone uses their laptops the same way, or necessarily needs all of its capabilities.

My two previous laptops for a long period of time were a Sony Vaio S360, and a Sony Vaio SZ460.

Neither of these laptops were bad by any means (although the SZ especially I ultimately sold because I just didn't like the keyboard).

But the thing is, I look at all the criticisms leveled at the MacBook Air, and then think about how I used my Vaios.

No Optical Drive: In all honesty, I barely ever used my Vaio's optical drive; probably to install Office, and to burn the system recovery disks (Sony doesn't provide physical recovery media). The primary reason I avoided using it was because the optical drive was noisy (making movie watching a pain) and a major battery drain.

No ethernet: Never used Ethernet myself.

Only one USB port: I rarely ever had ANYTHING plugged into the USB ports of my Vaios. Probably at most I might have used it to hook up to a printer, or to put stuff on a thumb drive, but that was pretty much it. I did have a Logitech VX Revolution with a USB wireless dongle, but in the end I rarely traveled with the external mouse anyway.

So looking at how I've actually used laptops myself, the shortcomings of the MacBook Air don't effect me personally.

I'm not saying, of course, that means these don't matter to anyone. Clearly for people who do need these things, the MBA obviously isn't the right choice.

But the point I'm trying to make is that the "limitations" of the MBA aren't specifically limitations for those of us out here that don't specifically use some of those other elements of a laptop.

I'm not saying I'm going to buy an MBA, of course; I am probably more tempted by the MBP at this point. But I can definitely see the appeal of the MBA, and it frankly fits the bill of what I've been looking for in a laptop in ways that machines like the Vaio TZ and SZ don't.

-Zadillo

I agree with what you are saying.

I don't think there is any problem with Apple introducing a new line and experimenting with the market. There may be enough market for the MBA to sustain a few iterations and eventually Apple may hit on the perfect ultra-portable.

What I don't fully understand is why Apple is choosing to experiment with an untested design in their product line. They do so even though many customers have been dying for something between a mini and macpro for gaming and general computing. As well as the market for a MBP with a smaller footprint.

Fair enough. Certainly there's all sorts of things people have been clamoring for that Apple hasn't yet unveiled (and we have no way of knowing for sure what they're working on).

I do think that eventually, one way or the other, Apple is going to address some of those other "holes" in their product line. But from all the rumors, it sounds like the MBA was something Apple was working on for quite a while, and I don't think it hurts to have released it now even while they are still probably working away in their labs somewhere on some of those other things people have been talking about (a mid-range midtower Mac between the iMac and Mac Pro, a smaller MacBook Pro, etc.).

-Zadillo
 
"- Battery test: surfed web, used Remote Disk, wrote: 3 hours, 40 minutes."

I was going to get one. I will wait.

That's what I get on my MB, I think I'll be quite happy sticking with it for the foreseeable future, although the backlighting should really come to the MacBook now, at least for the black model.
 
That's what I get on my MB, I think I'll be quite happy sticking with it for the foreseeable future, although the backlighting should really come to the MacBook now, at least for the black model.

It does make you kind of wonder what Apple is going to do with the regular MacBook line, especially the $1499 black MacBook.

-Zadillo
 
I agree with what you are saying.

I don't think there is any problem with Apple introducing a new line and experimenting with the market. There may be enough market for the MBA to sustain a few iterations and eventually Apple may hit on the perfect ultra-portable.

It's highly unlikely there will ever be a "perfect" ultra-portable. Because everyone's idea of perfect is different. My perfect is not your perfect.

What I don't fully understand is why Apple is choosing to experiment with an untested design in their product line.

Not the first time they've introduced something new and different. Some work, some don't. We'll see how this one works out. The next one might be quite different. Like the second shuffle. Or the second nano.

They do so even though many customers have been dying for something between a mini and macpro for gaming and general computing. As well as the market for a MBP with a smaller footprint.

Well, if Apple makes either of those, I'm sure you'll be very happy and go out and buy one. That's great.
 
It's two pounds lighter. And I don't consider it only "slightly" thicker.

Ok sorry two pounds. But do you really consider .32 inches of thickness to be a big burden?

I'm not trying to put down Apple for experimenting with the MBA in the market place. I am just really trying to understand why someone would pay more for less and still not get the ultra-portability of a smaller machine.

It seems like the standard MB has the same market covered pretty well. Two pounds just doesn't seem like much. I understand two pounds and a smaller foot print because a smaller footprint is useful in tight places common to commuting.
 
The MBA is not a TZ, and it's not an MB or MBP either.

It's something else.

I've wanted a lighter laptop for some time. But I did not want a 10 or 11" screen. I did not want a small keyboard. I did not want a ultra low power processor. I did not want Windows. And I did not want to spend time getting Linux working smoothly on a machine where it isn't officially supported.

So the Air fits the bill. Not perfectly (wish it were a bigger HD), but it fits better than an MBP for me, and better than anything else I've looked at.


Exactly, youre absolutlely right, this is my logical chain of thought as well and I ordered it when I realised that this was exactly what I been waiting for!

I think our way of thinking, including HD & Streaming for movies adn other content ,instead of the old optical way is rather early adaptor still, thats why most people will have to try this new ideas out first before they are all into the Air thing.

Once you step awy from optical media this is the logical step for the future.
 
Well, if Apple makes either of those, I'm sure you'll be very happy and go out and buy one. That's great.

Probably not. I have a MacPro 3.0 ghz octo desktop with 31" and 24" ACDs. My current portable is a G4 17 inch Powerbook. I am waiting for a revised 17" MBP. I'm too old for an ultra-portable. Even 13 inch seems too small to me.
 
Ok sorry two pounds. But do you really consider .32 inches of thickness to be a big burden?

At the one edge it is a third of an inch. That's a 30% difference. That's pretty significant. And as you know, it's more than that has you move toward the other edge. So in a semi-flexible briefcase, you can put that "fat" edge up, for example, and you have a lot of extra space at the bottom. Or vice versa.

Also the weight is 40% less. Again, a 17" is "only" 2 lbs more than an 15" MBP. You cannot possibly be saying that difference is not significant.

I'm not trying to put down Apple for experimenting with the MBA in the market place. I am just really trying to understand why someone would pay more for less and still not get the ultra-portability of a smaller machine.

Because for people who travel with briefcases, having a narrow notebook is of no value. And it would mean a smaller keyboard and screen. Which I don't want. As long as it's no wider in footprint than a file, I'm all set.

It seems like the standard MB has the same market covered pretty well. Two pounds just doesn't seem like much. I understand two pounds and a smaller foot print because a smaller footprint is useful in tight places common to commuting.

Again, not for those of us who carry normal portfolio cases, footprint is not as important, and comes at the expense of the keyboard.

Like I said, I've been wanting to downsize my laptop for some time. I did look at the MB last year, but it was no lighter than my MBP. And no less thick. So there was no point for me to move from the MBP to an MB. Now I have a choice that is thinner and lighter, which is what I wanted.
 
Well, unless they come out with an external battery w/ MagSafe power-through connecter I won't be buying one. I want the lightweight machine but without getting more longevity out of it I am better off with my MacBook and 3 batteries for the long flights I take.

Here's hoping.

I bought one because I want the portability, but the lack of swappable battery is a major bummer.

I too hope that Apple releases an external battery. I don't think it's going to happen, but I am hopeful.
 
Two pounds just doesn't seem like much.

Two pounds is still pretty significant. Lug around a 5-6 pound laptop in a backpack or bag compared to a 3 pound laptop and you would definitely be able to tell the difference.

I think I'd enjoy having an Air. It's shortcomings do not matter for me at all except for the larger footprint. I rarely use USB, have used the optical maybe 5 times this past year, never use Firewire (if the port was broken on my Macbook I wouldn't even know), and have only used the Ethernet jack maybe 3-4 times this past year. I only wish it had a screen smaller than 13" but that's mainly to appease my desire for an extremely light and small ultraportable.

Unfortunately I already have a Macbook that while I wish were lighter, it already serves my purposes. No point upgrading for another $1000 (I'm assuming I'd get around $800 for this machine).
 
I bought one because I want the portability, but the lack of swappable battery is a major bummer.

I too hope that Apple releases an external battery. I don't think it's going to happen, but I am hopeful.

What gets me is that maybe Apple could've had an option to include a user-swappable battery if they say, increase the width of it by like a tenth to a quarter of an inch. But they were so steadfast in making this thing so thin they cut out on usability all for the sake of thin.

Honestly, was there a point in getting it so freaking thin? (besides satisfying some product manager's desire) Surely a few centimeters could have been sacrificed to include some options that users would want.
 
Honestly, was there a point in getting it so freaking thin? (besides satisfying some product manager's desire) Surely a few centimeters could have been sacrificed to include some options that users would want.
I hope you meant millimeters. :D

But for those who don't like the MBA, there's always the MB and the MBP. Before the MBA I wanted to have an MBP keyboard with MB-class hardware so this is yet another thing for me to try out.
 
Some points:

High res is always useful; one doesn't have to have everything remain small, the hires can be used solely for clarity and sharpness of images when they are scaled larger.

Sony's tiny computer is useless for anything but e-mail, surfing, and office-type activities, short ones at that considering the difficulty of using the kb.

MBA can do OS X, Windows, Linux, DOS 3.3, WoW, Golf, etc. Its probably the only computer of its weight that can, bar none.
 
notice in the inventory it's described as the 'macbook air 13'? So will it soon be complimented by an 11" or 15"?
 
So what's the deal? Why is that only for rich people? It isn't a cheap laptop, that's true, but "ultraportables" aren't usually cheap. Honestly, I don't think many people out there really use their computers' horsepower anyway. the Air is perfect for all of Apple's cool apps except for video (iMovie, right), and how many people use that? I sure don't.

/ Preface | Warning / * If you are the owner or would like to be an owner of a Ford Focus or Kia Spectra; please do not take offense to the statement below *

Shadowfax; I agree with you that a lot of the negativity towards the Air has been cost. It seems to be the underlying tone in most of the posts knocking the new machine.

Like you said - it is an ultra-portable, and the cost is actually very friendly in that matter.

Features aside, they'd knock a 911 Turbo because their Focus or Spectra comes with 4 wheels too, but costs $110,000 less.
 
In other forums as well as this one, it seems to be the consensus that had Apple made a 12" or 13" MacBook Pro, people were ready to order right after the keynote. Many are now disgruntled and not interested in the Air. It's not Pro and it doesn't have the features of even the regular MacBook. It's just......thin. So the big question is will Apple ever do a Pro MacBook with a small screen ever again? It seems there is demand for it. Will they do it? And will the Air wither away after the niche of execs get theirs?

someone posted this link in another forum: http://mbp12.com/

Maybe it is just a dream or fantasy, but until Apple listens to what many of us would be willing to purchase without a second thought, I think the 12" Powerbook G4’s shadow will always be haunting the MBA. Maybe that is what the shadow in the floating MBA’s photos actually is! The spectre of a discontinued but still much-loved 12" Powerbook.

I wonder what the count is of people with the 12" Powerbook still waiting for a smaller Macbook Pro? Thousands? Tens of thousands? More?
 
What gets me is that maybe Apple could've had an option to include a user-swappable battery if they say, increase the width of it by like a tenth to a quarter of an inch. But they were so steadfast in making this thing so thin they cut out on usability all for the sake of thin.
Battery is where all the weight is. If you are going to be carrying around extra batteries, why pay extra for an ultraportable?

The old PB 12'' was a square screen, so its height is probably not any less than 13'' widescreen. The height is what makes it hard to open the lid up in an airplane when the seat in front is reclined. Aside from lacking a cramped small keyboard to remind you that you have an ultraportable, I don't see MBA to be any harder to use.

In terms of ports, we do use ethernet at work quite a bit, so I could see an ethernet port or a second USB port come in handy when you want to hook up a thumbdrive quickly without getting disconnected from the network when you are visiting a customer. Still, it is not the end of the world.
 
My battery is so old it lasts 15-20 minutes.

Edit; i have a Powerbook g4.

ROFL - I second that! my PowerBook G4 with 1.25 GHz rund about 40 minutes on its old-old battery. But, despite dropping it on the concrete ground from over a meter in height, it still works perfectly andis not too sluggish to use Aperture onthe Road with 10-15 MB RAW filesfrom my D200.

I am really looking forward to a new MacBook pro or MacBook Air though, but first I need my Mac Pro 8-core... a few more weeks... yay!

Also wanted to add I think taking the disk driveout is genius - I stopped carrying DVDs a long time ago (HandBrake!) and for installation, the Remote Disk thing seems ideal. Andthose who really need Ethernet - it's like a 19USD adapter - get one and get real. It's the hotels that should offer free WiFi in all rooms anyways. And they will, as installation costs are lower nowadays.

All will be good :) :apple:
 
I think the problem with my trade off of the optical drive would be that I would like a bigger HDD to carry around my data. I struggle right now with my 80 Gig HDD on my MBP. I barely ever have any space free.
 
I am still happy with my PowerBook G4.

I am sure this thing is faster, but I get 4 hours battery out of my PowerBook and I have two batteries. Love the little thing.
 
Expresscard is the way to go!

You can also do it with your cell phone, you can bluetooth connect it and tell the computer to use it's data connection. Then say you have a blackberry on an unlimited data plan, then you shouldn't get nailed with 2 bills right?
Although I'm not sure how your phone company would feel about that. How much is one of those cards anyways? And i'm sure that a slot like that would take up a lot of space, and considering they don't even have a disk drive...
Also most of us don't have a use for that kind of feature so it'd be wasting space.

I don't agree at all. I think a large fraction of the target demographic for this laptop would be VERY interested in a cellular 3G broadband connection. For god sakes, I've never seen the "totally wireless" concept pushed so hard before. How ironic is it that it doesn't even have a built-in 3G HSDPA/EVDO option or an express card slot, like nearly EVERY other notebook made this decade, including most subnotebooks coming out of Japan. I have a Verizon EV-DO expresscard and it's great. Especially with many hotels now charging over $10 a day for in-room internet, and Wifi networks being bought up by T-mobile/Boingo, it definitely pays for itself if you travel much.

As long as they don't seal in the SIM card or put a network lock on, you can put any carrier's 3G sim card in and it will work. There are multiple 3G HSPA networks in every other country that Apple operates in. (The USA will soon have two)
The data plans are getting very cheap now too. Please put HSPA in, it's pretty much essential now.

I don't think it's a good idea only adding built in HSDPA, as it's the LEAST covered network in the USA. If they wanted to go the builtin route, they should offer a choice of internal Sprint/Verizon EV-DO/CDMA card or AT&T HSDPA card, like the PC manufacturers do.
A much better and more practical alternative would have been adding an ExpressCard-34 Slot, which would allow consumers to get a 3G expresscard from any network they wish. (nearly all 3G cards are in the thin "34" form factor) Restricting it to the "34" size slot would keep the port very small and allow the Air to stay quite thin. In this way, the 3G card would fit nearly completely within the laptop so you wouldn't have to have a huge USB dongle hanging off the side... who the hell wants that?
An expresscard slot would also be a great way to expand the features of the Air, without having more adaptors/connectors/etc hanging off the laptop.

possible uses:
1) USB too slow for an external drive and/or just need more ports? Just pop in a FireWire 400 or Firewire 800 or eSata express card and hook up an external 2.5" 7200rpm drive at native speed. They even make combination FireWire800 + 2USB ports cards.

2) Not content with only 64GB SDD or want a boost to that slow 80GB HDD? Install a 16GB or 32GB expresscard flash memory card and use it as your boot drive or place your memory pagefile or temporary data onto it for fast access.

3) Don't like the usb->ethernet dongle, install a gigabitE expresscard instead. New WiFi standard comes out... just install a new card.

There are even expresscards that connect to a PCIexpress breakout box so you can install desktop size PCIexpress graphics cards, RAID controllers, Scientific data aquisition devices, etc. In other words, almost anything you could possibly need. And the best part is that the most of the cards sit nearly flush with the side compared to the monstrosity that is the USB dongle.
 
I'll wait for some more detailed/user reviews as they just seem no better than the initial hands on tests from mwsf.

The battery life tests just confuse matters as one says it lasts over 3.5 hours with no battery saving aspects on (so heavy usage of full speed/power cpu, constant spinning of drive etc) - that isn't too bad, another says less with lighter use but no info on settings.

Now 3.5 hours under heavy use thats fair as you are using more cpu time, but if it doesn't get to anywhere near 5 hours with wireless on and the user being productive - to me its doing a little more than browsing the net, I want to be able to watch/listen streaming video/audio then I think Apple may have a bit of an issue.

Also no mention of how much drain the optical drive has on battery life.
 
In other forums as well as this one, it seems to be the consensus that had Apple made a 12" or 13" MacBook Pro, people were ready to order right after the keynote. Many are now disgruntled and not interested in the Air.

That is not the consensus. It is the consensus among the complainers. If Apple had made a 12" MacBook Pro, you wouldn't hear a thing from those people, but all those who like the MBA as it is and don't post would be posting that the screen is too small and it is too thick and heavy and they would have ordered one right after the keynote if it only had been thinner, lighter and with a bigger screen.
 
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