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First review about sound... fan noise

Confused-User said:
If you're in group 2, it's an open question, but assuming it's going to be loud instead of testing it, lacking any relevant data, is just stupid.

Your insistence that your Logic Pro use puts you in that group is in any case very questionable. You said earlier that it's stressing your old Intel Mini; if so, it's highly unlikely that it would place any sort of burden on the M4, Pro or basic.
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You really can't help yourself, can you?

Have you heard about "latency"? As a keyboard player, being able to push large projects with low latency is preferable. Low latency = more demanding on the CPU. A newer and more powerful CPU makes it possible to have lower latency, while running demanding plugins and software instruments.

Also, for large sample libraries you need lots of RAM, so the base M4 chip is not a good option here.

Why not assume that people actually know what they're talking about, instead of assuming a condescending and "I know best" attitude?
 
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loliii123 said:
With a base M4 mini I have the game on low graphics high textures (habit from the old days?), 4v4 with AI, approximately 1920x1080 windowed mode. It dips to around 80-100fps during moderate fights, 140-160fps early on just macroing up. Power consumption bounces around 19W-27W tops. Those aren't levels high enough to push the fan to spin up past the base 1000RPM level (which is essentially silent).
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Cool. Thanks for trying it out!
 
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I should be getting my M4 Mac Mini Pro (base) tomorrow.

I will test it for the following (my normal use cases) and report back on fan noise.

  1. General Internet browsing
  2. Copying raw files from Camera (Sony A7IV)
  3. Copying large files to/from an External HD
  4. Watching hi res video (i.e. Netflix, VLC)
  5. Photo editing
  6. 4K video editing (Resolve)
  7. 4K video exporting (Resolve)
  8. Playing games
 
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I’m wondering how much RAM also impacts real-world flows. I feel like the few 64GB reviews had little/no fan issues. One guy was doing 4K editing in Resolve and edited RAW Hasselblad files and the fan never spooled once. A commenter asked about it and he stated it wasn't an issue or he would have mentioned. Even Art is Right noted some tasks would have performed better with a machine with more RAM.

Looking at the stuff a lot of people are doing to spool up the fan, most are doing work that clearly seems "Studio-level." If you’re batching AI de-noise and stuff for 50, 100, 1000 things at once… I’m not sure why the mini is even a consideration? Feels like the wrong tool for the job.

I get it CAN do it, but "can" and "best" seem to be blurred a little in a lot of these posts. Just because something on paper can do something, it doesn't mean it should also be the best at it. I feel a lot of the expectations around the M4Pro are simply due to the fact there isn't a new Studio... and what "Professional" means to different people.

I also think it's a little funny that so many people are running benchmarks that are essentially designed to push a machine to its limits, but then act shocked when the machine did indeed get challenged. It's like complaining that a Ferrari gets too loud and a bit skittish when you get close to 180MPH... lol.
 
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PerfectTommy said:
I also think it's a little funny that so many people are running benchmarks that are essentially designed to push a machine to its limits, but then act shocked when the machine did indeed get challenged. It's like complaining that a Ferrari gets too loud and a bit skittish when you get close to 180MPH... lol.
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No one is "shocked" here. The only “shocked” reactions seem to come from trolls who can't understand why some people prioritize a quiet computer. Apple has previously shown it can deliver impressive performance with low noise. Most of us are simply curious to see if this Mac Mini follows suit—or if we should consider another Mac model, like a Mac Studio, to better meet our needs.
 
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PerfectTommy said:
I’m wondering how much RAM also impacts real-world flows. I feel like the few 64GB reviews had little/no fan issues. One guy was doing 4K editing in Resolve and edited RAW Hasselblad files and the fan never spooled once. A commenter asked about it and he stated it wasn't an issue or he would have mentioned. Even Art is Right noted some tasks would have performed better with a machine with more RAM.

Looking at the stuff a lot of people are doing to spool up the fan, most are doing work that clearly seems "Studio-level." If you’re batching AI de-noise and stuff for 50, 100, 1000 things at once… I’m not sure why the mini is even a consideration? Feels like the wrong tool for the job.

I get it CAN do it, but "can" and "best" seem to be blurred a little in a lot of these posts. Just because something on paper can do something, it doesn't mean it should also be the best at it. I feel a lot of the expectations around the M4Pro are simply due to the fact there isn't a new Studio... and what "Professional" means to different people.

I also think it's a little funny that so many people are running benchmarks that are essentially designed to push a machine to its limits, but then act shocked when the machine did indeed get challenged. It's like complaining that a Ferrari gets too loud and a bit skittish when you get close to 180MPH... lol.
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I was that “commenter” haha…I really torn here as I want to go with the 14/20 variant but I really like the very quiet M1 I have. I don’t mind having a fan noise when I export 60min video once a week but I really don’t want a loud fan noise when using the machine for daily work (browser with 10-20 tabs open, slack, some python scripts on VS Code, parallels with Win 11, TradingView and other not too demanding the applications). I hated any Intel/AMD laptop over the last 16 years I’m using laptops becuase of the fire-jet-like fan noise.
 
there's lots of speculation going on in this thread...

I have a Mac mini M1, M2 and M4 (non-Pro). I ran a HandBrake re-encoding job (H.264 -> H.265, using the CPUs, not VideoToolbox). this, of course, maxes out all available CPU cores.

M4 P-core max. possible/allowed clockspeed: 4464 MHz
M2 P-core max. possible/allowed clockspeed: 3504 MHz

M4 fan at idle: 1000 RPM (inaudible)
M2 fan at idle: 1700 RPM (inaudible)

both, M2 and M4, consume approx. 24 W with all CPU cores maxed out.

the fan in the Mac mini M2 stays at 1700 RPM, all the time.
the CPU clock speed stays at 3504 MHz during re-encoding, all the time.

the fan in the Mac mini M4 ramps up to approx 2100 RPM (clearly audible, mildly annoying).
after 10-15 minutes under full load, the CPUs start to throttle (worst seen approx. 3300 MHz, settles after a while to approx. 3800 MHz).

so... with M2 and M4 both using roughly the same amount of power (~24 W) when running the same job, I can only draw one conclusion from this: the cooling solution in the Mac mini M2 works better, period.
 
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mikeboss said:
there's lots of speculation going on in this thread...

I have a Mac mini M1, M2 and M4 (non-Pro). I ran a HandBrake re-encoding job (H.264 -> H.265, using the CPUs, not VideoToolbox). this, of course, maxes out all available CPU cores.

M4 P-core max. possible/allowed clockspeed: 4464 MHz
M2 P-core max. possible/allowed clockspeed: 3504 MHz

M4 fan at idle: 1000 RPM (inaudible)
M2 fan at idle: 1700 RPM (inaudible)

both, M2 and M4, consume approx. 24 W with all CPU cores maxed out.

the fan in the Mac mini M2 stays at 1700 RPM, all the time.
the CPU clock speed stays at 3504 MHz during re-encoding, all the time.

the fan in the Mac mini M4 ramps up to approx 2100 RPM (clearly audible, mildly annoying).
after 10-15 minutes under full load, the CPUs start to throttle (worst seen approx. 3300 MHz, settles after a while to approx. 3800 MHz).

so... with M2 and M4 both using roughly the same amount of power (~24 W) when running the same job, I can only draw one conclusion from this: the cooling solution in the Mac mini M2 works better, period.
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Thanks for sharing that! Any chances you can ran the same test again but this time flip the mini M4 upside down to see what are the differences?
If there will be a big difference, maybe I’ll consider using it upside down and just put it behind the monitor.
 
mikeboss said:
M4 fan at idle: 1000 RPM (inaudible)
M2 fan at idle: 1700 RPM (inaudible)

both, M2 and M4, consume approx. 24 W with all CPU cores maxed out.

the fan in the Mac mini M2 stays at 1700 RPM, all the time.
the CPU clock speed stays at 3504 MHz during re-encoding, all the time.
Click to expand...
This sounds weird, my macbook's fan is at 0 RPM at idle and until I really push the temperatures. I have never seen an apple silicon mac having a >0 RPM @Idle/low load (except for some time after it is pushed harder, it keeps fanning for some time after decreasing the temps, but that is another case). Are you sure you do not use some software that does it or have changed some setting?
 
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I feel there is a lot of exaggeration in this thread, so, coming here to get a better idea to help me in my buying decisions, I take everything with a grain of salt.

We see some comments saying the fans are working too much, others that say that fans are not working enough. It is obvious that people talking about different power modes and scenarios here. Imo it has to become clear:

- Fan speed depends on low vs auto vs high power mode. High mode pushes the fan speed harder while low pushed them less, and auto is in the middle. Even regardless the actual temperature, high power mode pushes the fans harder, in order to create more headroom for increasing the usage. Low power mode is more comfortable staying with high temps while barely using the fan (throttling a bit the cores or prefering E-cores etc). Auto is more balanced. This is a feature, not a bug. I am pretty sure people have these conflicting experiences because they are actually testing different things.

- Being able to push the fans loud is actually good: it means the CPU/GPU can be pushed to higher clocks while maintaining temperatures within bounds. This can be adjusted with the different modes, which is actually great (instead of needing a third party utility to adjust the behaviour, except if for any reason you need more finegrained control). In short if fans were not working full at no scenario it would basically mean that apple could push the mac mini more, but it did not.

- Similarly, the case getting hot is not necessarily bad, as this is one of the main ways to dissipate heat from the chip. It is even less of an issue than on a macbook laptop that one is expected being more in contact with and having high heat on the case can be annoying.
 
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camotwen said:
I feel there is a lot of exaggeration in this thread, so, coming here to get a better idea to help me in my buying decisions, I take everything with a grain of salt.

We see some comments saying the fans are working too much, others that say that fans are not working enough. It is obvious that people talking about different power modes and scenarios here. Imo it has to become clear:

- Fan speed depends on low vs auto vs high power mode. High mode pushes the fan speed harder while low pushed them less, and auto is in the middle. Even regardless the actual temperature, high power mode pushes the fans harder, in order to create more headroom for increasing the usage. Low power mode is more comfortable staying with high temps while barely using the fan (throttling a bit the cores or prefering E-cores etc). Auto is more balanced. This is a feature, not a bug. I am pretty sure people have these conflicting experiences because they are actually testing different things.

- Being able to push the fans loud is actually good: it means the CPU/GPU can be pushed to higher clocks while maintaining temperatures within bounds. This can be adjusted with the different modes, which is actually great (instead of needing a third party utility to adjust the behaviour, except if for any reason you need more finegrained control). In short if fans were not working full at no scenario it would basically mean that apple could push the mac mini more, but it did not.

- Similarly, the case getting hot is not necessarily bad, as this is one of the main ways to dissipate heat from the chip. It is even less of an issue than on a macbook laptop that one is expected being more in contact with and having high heat on the case can be annoying.
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As a potential M4 Mini customer, this feedback is really useful. My current M1 is silent, I’ve literally never heard the fans kick in over the last three years of daily usage, even with pretty resource heavy software.

I’m already slightly put off by the power button location (don’t need a debate on this, it’s a negative for my setup), and the ports on the rear look incredibly cramped. If there’s fan noise on top, however minimal, an M2 purchase might be a better option for me.

I honestly don’t understand this obsession Apple has with making everything smaller - it’s not as if the previous version was too big, or we need to carry it around.
 
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I can understand that if there's no fan at all or if the system stays silent all the time, that we need to accept the need for CPU trottling. but ramping up the fan(s) and throttling the CPU's clock speed is a total nogo in my book.
 
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mikeboss said:
you clearly have not seen many Asi Macs then ;-) and yes, I am sure.
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Do you live in a hot environment? This sounds really peculiar to me. I really do not think that fans being active @Idle is intended behaviour. Why on earth should they do that? Passive cooling is more than enough for idle/low use in asi macs. Neither have I seen it in person (I use an m3 max macbook daily) or reported online. What I can think is that it is not really idle (relatively intensive stuff run on the background), or if there is some sort of training on the fan control that adapts to one's overall usage somehow (I know such adaptation happens short-term, eg I see that at eg 40oC low use before intensive tasks does not activate fans, while they may stay active at the same low usage/temps if measured for some time after intensive tasks) but not sure if there is also a long-term one) and your machine runs intensive tasks most of the time or sth.
 
Peter_M said:
If you're in group 2, it's probably wise to wait for the new Mac Studio next year.

I had my mind set on the Mac Mini M4 Pro, and it's disappointing to keep waiting another 6 months - but these machines are supposed to last a long time, and they are expensive.
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Yeah I am part of this group, also heavy LR/PS use with macro/astro stacking. I was excited about the M4 because as a PC user it's the first time Apple has had a machine powerful enough at a price that competes (somewhat) with performance/cost. Though I am super curious to see how bad the noise really is.

SmallDane said:
No one is "shocked" here. The only “shocked” reactions seem to come from trolls who can't understand why some people prioritize a quiet computer. Apple has previously shown it can deliver impressive performance with low noise. Most of us are simply curious to see if this Mac Mini follows suit—or if we should consider another Mac model, like a Mac Studio, to better meet our needs.
Click to expand...

I prioritise quiet computing, always have, it's why I build my own quiet Pc's. But I also don't like statements that bag things out without any data and false understandings. It is why I try to add some science to the discussion. I hope that isn't trolling. Anyway I think I am convinced to get the Studio when it comes out next year now, though I am still gonna grab a mini M4 pro now to test out the fuss since I have saved and the money is sitting there anyway. Got 8 weeks to test it out and can return it so why not.
 
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camotwen said:
Do you live in a hot environment? This sounds really peculiar to me. I really do not think that fans being active @Idle is intended behaviour. Why on earth should they do that? Passive cooling is more than enough for idle/low use in asi macs. Neither have I seen it in person (I use an m3 max macbook daily) or reported online. What I can think is that it is not really idle (relatively intensive stuff run on the background), or if there is some sort of training on the fan control that adapts to one's overall usage somehow (I know such adaptation happens short-term, eg I see that at eg 40oC low use before intensive tasks does not activate fans, while they may stay active at the same low usage/temps if measured for some time after intensive tasks) but not sure if there is also a long-term one) and your machine runs intensive tasks most of the time or sth.
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I'm living in switzerland (as stated in my profile). it's fall over here, outside temps are below 10° C.
I assembled hundreds of PCs during the 90ies (at a small computer shop). I'm working with/on Macs and PCs for more than 35 years now (for a living). a desktop Mac with the fan(s) running at 0 RPM when idle does not exist. except the G4 cube, of course.
 
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halo9 said:
I prioritise quiet computing, always have, it's why I build my own quiet Pc's. But I also don't like statements that bag things out without any data and false understandings. It is why I try to add some science to the discussion. I hope that isn't trolling. Anyway I think I am convinced to get the Studio when it comes out next year now, though I am still gonna grab a mini M4 pro now to test out the fuss since I have saved and the money is sitting there anyway. Got 8 weeks to test it out and can return it so why not.
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No, that’s definitely not trolling. I’m referring to those who always enter threads like this and essentially ridicule the idea that there’s anything worth discussing. Gathering more data is always valuable, even if it’s often subjective or anecdotal.
 
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NirHa said:
Thanks for sharing that! Any chances you can ran the same test again but this time flip the mini M4 upside down to see what are the differences?
If there will be a big difference, maybe I’ll consider using it upside down and just put it behind the monitor.
Click to expand...

the M4 mini was placed on its side (vertically) during the tests I ran yesterday. so absolutely zero obstruction of the air flow.
 
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mikeboss said:
I'm living in switzerland (as stated in my profile). it's winter over here, outside temps are below 10° C.
I assembled hundreds of PCs during the 90ies (at a small computer shop). I'm working with/on Macs and PCs for more than 35 years now (for a living). a desktop Mac with the fan(s) running at 0 RPM when idle does not exist. except the G4 cube, of course.
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You are right; I stand corrected.
 
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loliii123 said:
I got the base model M4 mini, when pushing it hard (gaming through Whisky/wine) it draws ~46W, the fans spin up to around 2500-3000RPM. 20cm away the Apple Watch 7 reads about 41dB, noise floor is 31-32dB. Ambient 25.4C. AVG CPU is ~89C, hottest CPU (performance core) 103C. At this level I'd call it noisy/obtrusive, you're probably gonna want to slap on headphones if you had to keep it at this level and work long term.

I'll call the machine quietly audible at 33dB (non obtrusive wooshing), drawing 32W, fan ~1450rpm. (I capped fps to 45, 4 P cores maxed and gpu at around 70-80%) This would be a pretty moderate load.

The machine is practically silent at anything below say 27W, fan
I let the machine idle and the fan reports 1000RPM. With my ear up against the machine you can still hear the fan hum (almost like quiet mains transformer humming) but when say moving my mouse around while watching a 4k60 YouTube video there's no sharp coil whine noise or anything, so it's very well behaved.

I've tried raising it so the intake/exhaust can breathe better, but the increase in noise level more than offsets any gain in cooling efficiency. Hope this helps.
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Very helpful. Thanks

My M1 mini fan runs at near constant 1700rpm and it's inaudible at sitting distance or up close. If I use a fan controller to put it on full blast, it sounds like white noise machine. Not terribly unpleasant, but not something I want to hear for long.

It sounds like the smaller mini is noisier. It's just physics
 
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