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First review about sound... fan noise

I don't understand your argument. They shrank the case to be smaller but as a side effect, the M4 Pro doesn't behave the same way as M2 Pro (ie. silent under load).

Of course it's faster and powerful but that's not the point. Every M generation is faster - does that now mean that we will go back to noisy computers? I really struggle to understand you stance here.

Apple set the standard and now M4 Pro breaks it. That's the whole point of the conversation.

I have nothing against M4, that is absolutely spectacular machine but M4 Pro is different story.



nathansz said:
It is also significantly more powerful from the m2 pro

it also has more cores

The m4 pro could very well require more cooling even in the same form factor
Click to expand...
 
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Another factor to consider is the environment. The perceived noise will vary depending on the installation and the environment. The perceived noise of a unit mounted on a metal table will be different than if mounted behind a wooden desk. The operating environment also has an impact, competing ambient noise sources (e.g., HVAC, street noise, open office) will impact the perceived noise from the unit.

Also one needs to consider how the unit will be stress. While playing game will stress a system, most game have a significant soundtrack. So if you are worried about noise from a unit while playing a game, are you sure that the game’s sounds won’t drown out any fan noise.
 
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Chuckeee said:
Another factor to consider is the environment. The perceived noise will vary depending on the installation on the environment. The perceived noise of a unit mounted on a metal table will be different than if mounted behind a wooden desk. The operating environment also has an impact, competing ambient noise sources (e.g., HVAC, street noise, open office) will impact the perceived noise from the unit.

Also one needs to consider how the unit will be stress. While playing game will stress a system, most game have a significant soundtrack. So if you are worried about noise from a unit while playing a game, are you sure that the game’s sounds won’t drown out any fan noise.
Click to expand...
We should also factor in the ambient room temperature, which could differ significantly depending on which country you live in or how high you have your heating system.
 
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Gloor said:
They shrank the case to be smaller but as a side effect, the M4 Pro doesn't behave the same way as M2 Pro (ie. silent under load).
Click to expand...

I can see that you don't understand

what I am saying is that the change in behaviour could very well have more to do with the chip than the change in the case design

for all you know that m4 pro would still need fans in the old case and the m2 pro would still be silent in the new case

you are assuming that it is solely the case that requires more cooling and completely discounting the possibility that they've finally made a powerful enough chip that's its going to need more cooling
 
The old case had more volume so more room to be creative with cooling.
Don't get me wrong, I love the new form but I just feel that maybe they could have made it a touch bigger to have more room for slightly bigger fan that would be able to keep it silent even in the pro model.

Or maybe the copper heatsink needs to be thicker.

nathansz said:
I can see that you don't understand

what I am saying is that the change in behaviour could very well have more to do with the chip than the change in the case design

for all you know that m4 pro would still need fans in the old case and the m2 pro would still be silent in the new case

you are assuming that it is solely the case that requires more cooling and completely discounting the possibility that they've finally made a powerful enough chip that's its going to need more cooling
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"The old case had more volume so more room to be creative with cooling."

If you look at the old case the fan and heatsink were not really larger than in the new case.
What I think could make a difference is that the M2 Pro mini and M2Max Studio had the heatsink directly attached to the SoC.

In the M4 Pro mini there is ~100mm of copper heatpipe before the heat gets to the heatsink, and that makes the new mini behave more like the M2+ MBPs, which definitely weren't silent or unthrottled under load.

The heat pipe has a temperature gradient along it, and that means the heatsink fins won't be quite as hot as a directly attached heatsink, so a bit more airflow is needed to cool the heatsink.

Worked fine in Intel computers as their CPUs always ran at ~100ºC so a heat pipe design's temp gradient still left the heatsink nicely glowing (in IR terms).
 
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Received a Mac mini M4 Pro with 14‑Core CPU, 20‑Core GPU and 24 GB RAM today. My idea was to replace my Mac Studio with M1 Mac with 10-Core CPU, 24-Core GPU and 32 GB of RAM.

In normal use the Mac mini is not hearable and quieter than my Mac Studio.

I tested both with the KI denoising tool of Camara RAW in Photoshop 2025. To test the devices some time under full GPU load I choose 50 Nikon Z6II RAW files for denoising.

Mac Studio needed 13 minutes and 15 seconds, without spinning the fans higher as in idl.

Mac mini in automatic mode needed 13 minutes and 45 seconds. After around 1 minute of denoising, the fans start to spin faster and faster and get clearly hearable. It sounds a little bit like a small vacuum cleaner. Recorded a small Video with the sound.


Mac mini in low power mode needed 24 minutes and 45 seconds, but the fans did not start spinning faster.

So I will stay with my Mac Studio M1 Max and maybe get a Mac Studio M4 Max next year.
 
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Yep, same sound experience for me when I tested Dota 2.

The sound is more humming so more 'appealing' compared to my old 2017 MBP but its still noisy and distracting.

I think it's a good call to stay with your current setup as it clearly works better. Let's see what we get in the future. ;-)

maluba27 said:
Received a Mac mini M4 Pro with 14‑Core CPU, 20‑Core GPU and 24 GB RAM today. My idea was to replace my Mac Studio with M1 Mac with 10-Core CPU, 24-Core GPU and 32 GB of RAM.

In normal use the Mac mini is not hearable and quieter than my Mac Studio.

I tested both with the KI denoising tool of Camara RAW in Photoshop 2025. To test the devices some time under full GPU load I choose 50 Nikon Z6II RAW files for denoising.

Mac Studio needed 13 minutes and 15 seconds, without spinning the fans higher as in idl.

Mac mini in automatic mode needed 13 minutes and 45 seconds. After around 1 minute of denoising, the fans start to spin faster and faster and get clearly hearable. It sounds a little bit like a small vacuum cleaner. Recorded a small Video with the sound.


Mac mini in low power mode needed 24 minutes and 45 seconds, but the fans did not start spinning faster.

So I will stay with my Mac Studio M1 Max and maybe get a Mac Studio M4 Max next year.
Click to expand...
 
Gloor said:
The old case had more volume so more room to be creative with cooling.
Don't get me wrong, I love the new form but I just feel that maybe they could have made it a touch bigger to have more room for slightly bigger fan that would be able to keep it silent even in the pro model.

Or maybe the copper heatsink needs to be thicker.
Click to expand...

but you don't actually know that the new design is worse at cooling than the old

you just keep restating your assumption, but you don't know that it is actually true
 
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PaulD-UK said:
In the M4 Pro mini there is ~100mm of copper heatpipe before the heat gets to the heatsink, and that makes the new mini behave more like the M2+ MBPs, which definitely weren't silent or unthrottled under load.
Click to expand...
Are we sure it is a true heatpipe (with transfer fluid and a wick) not just a solid copper strap?
 
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maluba27 said:
Received a Mac mini M4 Pro with 14‑Core CPU, 20‑Core GPU and 24 GB RAM today. My idea was to replace my Mac Studio with M1 Mac with 10-Core CPU, 24-Core GPU and 32 GB of RAM.

In normal use the Mac mini is not hearable and quieter than my Mac Studio.

I tested both with the KI denoising tool of Camara RAW in Photoshop 2025. To test the devices some time under full GPU load I choose 50 Nikon Z6II RAW files for denoising.

Mac Studio needed 13 minutes and 15 seconds, without spinning the fans higher as in idl.

Mac mini in automatic mode needed 13 minutes and 45 seconds. After around 1 minute of denoising, the fans start to spin faster and faster and get clearly hearable. It sounds a little bit like a small vacuum cleaner. Recorded a small Video with the sound.


Mac mini in low power mode needed 24 minutes and 45 seconds, but the fans did not start spinning faster.

So I will stay with my Mac Studio M1 Max and maybe get a Mac Studio M4 Max next year.
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting this. The big takeaway for me is for those of us worried about noise, the Mac Mini is not really a 'Pro' machine. They should have kept the bigger enclosure for a Pro machine.
 
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@maluba27

Extremely useful! Asking for a lot, but is there any chance you can place your phone as a dB meter maybe 2 ft away and snap a screenshot of your results pre-fan and post-fan (as in your video)?

apps.apple.com

‎Audio Spectrum Analyzer Pro

‎Audio Spectrum Analyzer is a powerful real-time audio analysis app. Full of features yet very simple to use. Sound level meter (db meter a-weighted, noise rating, noise criterion) included. Feature Highlights: • Octave Band Real Time Analyzer • FFT Plot (Fast Fourier Transform) • Linear...
apps.apple.com apps.apple.com

Max+Min, 2048FFT, linear
 
You are just argumentative for the argument sake. Apple clearly showed us (even with Intel) that the physical size matters. The 2013 Mac Pro was perfect example. When you have small package you limit yourself to less options.
Regardless whether it's Intel or AS.
Sure, AS is way more efficient etc. which allows Apple to innovate more but it still generates heat so there is still a limit.
But sure, keep being pedantic about the unknown whilst ignoring the above because that is an easier path.

Let's put it this way, if The studio had M4 Pro, do you think it would produce the same noise or do you think the Form factor of the Studio allows for much better headroom? I think we both know the answer so please apply the same mentality with the Mini here because the same applies here - size does matter!


nathansz said:
It’s really not that simple

Would you care to take us through heat dissipation of the two design and actually prove that one is better than the other?

Or are you just doubling down on making an assumption that you have no proof for?
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maluba27 said:
Mac mini in automatic mode needed 13 minutes and 45 seconds. After around 1 minute of denoising, the fans start to spin faster and faster and get clearly hearable. It sounds a little bit like a small vacuum cleaner. Recorded a small Video with the sound.

Click to expand...

It sounds like there is also a whistling sound. Is that from the fan or is it some kind of coil whine?
 
Gloor said:
You are just argumentative for the argument sake. Apple clearly showed us (even with Intel) that the physical size matters. The 2013 Mac Pro was perfect example. When you have small package you limit yourself to less options.
Regardless whether it's Intel or AS.
Sure, AS is way more efficient etc. which allows Apple to innovate more but it still generates heat so there is still a limit.
But sure, keep being pedantic about the unknown whilst ignoring the above because that is an easier path.

Let's put it this way, if The studio had M4 Pro, do you think it would produce the same noise or do you think the Form factor of the Studio allows for much better headroom? I think we both know the answer so please apply the same mentality with the Mini here because the same applies here - size does matter!
Click to expand...

so just doubling down on your assumption then

you actually don't know

got it

…

I’m not being argumentative for arguments sake

Your entire argument is that:

1) new case is worse at dissipating heat

2) because it is smaller



But you don’t even know that 1 is true!

and 2 is not necessarily the case either

Case size is not the only factor in heat dissipation

nonetheless you have worked backwards and assumed that 1 is true because you believe 2
 
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I think all these discussions comparing current design to past design theoretical cases or putting new chips in old boxes or old chips in new boxes sidesteps the reality. All that matters when we talk about past offerings versus new offerings is, for the purpose of this thread, the dB level for the same tasks. Yes, tasks will finish faster on new offerings… the concern is what Apple decided is the tolerable dB range between base and pro. We need 2 measurements (base noise, taxed noise) for 4 mini devices (m2, m2pro, m4, m4pro) to determine Apple’s decision making on noise tolerability. I’m also aware some noises are more annoying — a frequency curve may prove useful.
 
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Sure, doubling down.

I've used past examples and current ones too.

Studio vs Mini etc.

If you believe that size doesn't matter than there is no point to talking more.

M4 Pro dissipates more heat (that we can agree on, right?)

So if M4 has less heat and less volume = no noise
but M4 more heat and less volume = noise

then a) we need more volume
b) we need more effective cooling

regardless - the volume is the issue here as old Mini didn't have this problem.

But you will argue that I don't know this or that (which may be correct) but ignoring the other - SO, let's not go in circles and agree that we have hit a wall here. You don't like to work with any assumptions whilst I'm ok with some. Therefore, have a great day and lets wait for your numbers so we can revisit this so you do not have any unknowns :)


nathansz said:
so just doubling down on your assumption then

you actually don't know

got it

…

I’m not being argumentative for arguments sake

Your entire argument is that:

1) new case is worse at dissipating heat

2) because it is smaller



But you don’t even know that 1 is true!

and 2 is not necessarily the case either

Case size is not the only factor in heat dissipation

nonetheless you have worked backwards and assumed that 1 is true because you believe 2
Click to expand...
 
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