this guy does a nice review and talks briefly about thermals, favoring the m4 pro
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
First review about sound... fan noise
- Thread starter Cape Dave
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
this guy does a nice review and talks briefly about thermals, favoring the m4 pro
The hand wringing over precision audio engineering versus fan noise from a $1500 computer seems ludicrous. If professional grade is what's needed then perhaps a consumer grade device isn't appropriate.
Last edited:
As a comparison, my M1 Mini makes no sound what-so-ever.
It looks like every Mini since then is a step down in the noise department.
What is hang wringing? Nobody is talking about professional grade expectations but ludicrous is getting rid of a form factor that worked and sacrificing form over function so that it makes the device questionable use cases that you don't understand.
It’s not necessarily form over function.
IF the new minis are louder it may be because they have more powerful chips, which create more heat, not because the case is different
Last edited:
Anyone talking about "low noise floor", "music production", "mix and master engineer", "audio... portion of my work... is demanding", "recording studio" and so forth are all talking about professional grade expectations.
I hear you and certainly Apple is going to work hard to justify that $2,099 or so starting price for a Studio (my guess is price goes up $100). That struggle might be one of the reasons why its release is so delayed. But there is also some real physical limits to how much processing can help certain workflows. I think M4 Pro mini has basically reached the point where it can satisfy all levels of still photograph workflow. Now even the Studio maxed out can't satisfy all levels of video or 3D workflow as that just can take whatever you can throw at it. Pros will still buy Studios because that extra $700 might be one-day's work for them. But it might take something special from Apple like 48GB RAM and 1TB SSD in the base Studio to get enough folks to go to that $2,099 level.
My M2 Pro only turns its fans on regularly with gaming (Baldur's Gate 3 specifically). Still quiet even in a gaming session, but I get audible fans. Office work does nothing to it in terms of fans.
But yes, each Apple Silicon uses more power than the M1 mini, so there is more heat.
All the Mac Mini reviews on YouTube I am finding are brutal. They focus on the superficial and cosmetic, rather than what has CHANGED with a COMPLETE REDESIGN. So few mentions of:
-Sound levels when under sustained load
-Temperature checks under load
We might as well just watch iJustine, since that's what everyone is emulating
/rant
-Sound levels when under sustained load
-Temperature checks under load
We might as well just watch iJustine, since that's what everyone is emulating
/rant
You appear to be ignoring some important facts.
The M4 is massively more efficient than the M1. You're not running benchmarks that will consume all available power, you're running an *actual workload* which is roughly constant - that is, increasing the available power of the CPUs doesn't increase the power consumed by your workload. That means that running on an M4 - any M4, regardless of cooling - will run cooler (in other words, generate less heat, regardless of how that heat is removed) than on the M1 by a notable margin.
Beyond that, it appears that the fan in the M4 is not smaller than the fan in the M1.
So there is really no good reason to think that you're going to get louder fan noise in the M4 Pro than in the M1.
Sitting on the fence for this probably imaginary reason is nuts. Go buy one and try it! You have until January 8 or so to return it.
On my base M4 Pro, running Cinebench R23 CPU multicore for a full cycle, temp never exceeded 72c, fan never exceeded 3152rpm. Room temp was 68f. The fan was certainly audible in an otherwise silent room. It was not obtrusive, but noticeable. I did not record the db value. I don't use audio/video tools so cannot comment on that, but Cinebench is punishing and for me is the worst case scenario of load and noise.
Thanks for the reply.
Not gonna argue, but rather offer some counter points.
Both computers are not designed the same. Should we talk about two MacBooks, I’d be 100% behind your reasoning.
But differences in hardware architecture and the fact that the MBP 16 has two fans and the M4 Pro only one is enough for me to ask the question around.
There are great reasons to think the fan noise could be an issue for me. One being that for similar usage, users report an audible noise. More so, compared to my exact machine, it appears the M4 Pro Mini is more noisy.
Again. I might be wrong.
Just not my habit to splash 3000+€ just for an empirical test. I really don’t like returning stuff - takes time and stress.
You’re 100% right : buy, test, send back if need be.
Just thought it was important enough to ask.
Thanks for the input, tho. It balances the latest data I gathered.
That m4 vs m4pro video side by side is what I was hoping for but alas no objective measurements of heat and dB. I don’t think it’s surprising the m4pro was cooler to the touch if the benchmark for some things was half or a third the time like with the video export (more time to cool at the point he touched when both finished). I’d like to see the db and heat over time curves when running the same benchmarks, and a benchmark of something that does multiple routine workstation tasks other than raw cpu heavy load chugging.
Last edited:
Maybe or maybe not. Most of the stuff in studios I've seen is rancid old mac pros coated inside and out with a unique amorphous combination of dust and nicotine. If you do anything even remotely stressful on those the fans scream in agony "killlll meeeee". No one cares until they die of natural causes. Then everyone gets uppity about exactly the same kit not being available 10 years after they last bought it. That and macbooks of unknown maturity (but old enough to have a light up logo) held together with duct tape and more nicotine.
Any mac mini is better than that crapfest.
Personal studios everyone gets really 10x more uppity about. Literally everything is micro optimised to never produce anything musical whatsoever because they are too busy whining about fan noise on something which you can't hear anyway and staring at microphone reviews, which is pointless because they can't sing anyway.
Also the biggest contribution to the noise is the sound engineer's farts which are definitely louder than a mac mini fan.
Edit: to keep it quantitative, I've just transcoded about 2h of 1080p on mine (using CPU not hardware codec on handbrake) and I didn't notice any audible noise at all. Then again I'm old and can't hear certain frequencies - like whining people.
ok, so this afternoon I've returned the base M4 and got the base M4 Pro. Did my usual quick Dota 2 test and I have to say I'm disappointed with the noise. Here is the breakdown:
M4 base - max settings, 60fps = zero noise
M4 Pro base - max settings, 120fps = a lot of noise - not as bad as my 2017 MBP Intel but its still VERY audible.
However, if I put a cap on fps to 60fps (basically the max the M4 base could reach) then the M4 Pro is silent also.
Last 24 hours with the base M4 I never heard the fans.
1 hour with base M4 Pro and I already heard a very loud fans.
Now I'll do more testing but initial impressions not very good
M4 base - max settings, 60fps = zero noise
M4 Pro base - max settings, 120fps = a lot of noise - not as bad as my 2017 MBP Intel but its still VERY audible.
However, if I put a cap on fps to 60fps (basically the max the M4 base could reach) then the M4 Pro is silent also.
Last 24 hours with the base M4 I never heard the fans.
1 hour with base M4 Pro and I already heard a very loud fans.
Now I'll do more testing but initial impressions not very good
Mate, you aren't pushing your computers if you dont hear the fans, no matter what you think.
I hear them all the time in my M1 Max Macbookpro...... but this is doing all sorts of things like rendering, working with multiple 8k images, and using VR apps.
My M1 studio Ultra is very quiet in comparison but gets hot.
I see you are very opinionated about use cases that you don't understand. Thanks for the input.
Initial impressions of your impressions are not very good.
Seriously, this is profoundly ridiculous. "I tested my M4 by running the screensaver for an hour and heard nothing, then I tested my M4 Pro by running cinebench on a loop in the background while running a batch transcode of 10TB of movies and I heard lots of fan noise, I'm so disappointed." Does that make any sense at all? What you did is not as extreme, but still very much like that.
What was said makes complete sense. The m4pro has 16 gpu cores compared to 10 on m4, and double the performance cores (8 vs 4). There will be more heat generated at maxing out the m4pro that will ramp the fans up likely to a level that may not be attainable on the m4 due to much fewer cores and thus heat. It seems the m4 maxed out did not attain audible levels of the fans. The video game test is what’s telling — not the anecdotal comment about using it for 24h
Hey buddy, thanks for the awesome response and you are spot on with your reasoning man. You've even given me pause to reconsider my investment in an M4 Pro mini. I know my use case wouldn't be any where as close to taxing as yours but still I hate ramping fans that change speeds/noise. It's why my custom built PC uses 6 140mm fans running at 800rpm. It's just the quietest nose (which is actually the air moving, the fans are silent), but it is a constant low pitched barely noticed sound which never changes no matter what I do, and 99.99% of the time I can't even notice it.
I did find this image online where you can easily see the difference in cooling solution, the pro has a much beefier heatpipe and looks like twice as many fins to deal with the extra heat. Though from what I am reading now, even it does appear to struggle to keep heat in check in some use cases. Where this performance fits into audio/studio use (since GPU use is barely used) is a bit unknown as yet, so yeah thanks for questioning it as I am gonna wait a few weeks and see what else is discovered now.
So far we know in high power mode when fully taxed the M4 pro uses around 43w vs 33w for the M3 pro, but it does more work in less time, so overall it is a more efficient processor. It also uses about 2/3rds the power to do the same task compared to the M2 pro. For short fast loads the M4 pro will work great, though when it is crunching for extended periods it will put out a higher thermal load in less time. Is it up to task? Time will tell. Why Apple is using that tiny blower that looks the same size as the macbook blowers, I don't understand. If they used a larger one, or even the dual fan design from the studio, it could move more air at lower rpm with less noise. Gonna hold out hope as the studio will be overkill for me as I don't need the extra GPU cores.
You can also see the Pro is copper.
I'm not sure why people are bothered by any of this. Their names are pretty clear in this case: the Studio is meant for Studio use and the Mini is meant to be small. What Apple has managed to pack in that little package is remarkable, but if they're going to prioritize something on the Mini it would be the mini-ness even if that means the heaviest workloads spin up the fan.
Haha! I don't think I have seen a single review yet.... only links to a crap load of infomercials!!
I've just avoided it all and waiting on a proper written use tested review.
Do I need to add more XLRs, tape and using to my comment? Or perhaps I need to use a C12 as a hammer for true credibility.
(Note I ran a business supplying DAW kit to studios for a few years. Not home studios. Proper ones)
Edit: a friend of mine just bought two Mac minis to *replace* the M1 studios he’s using for video in the field. Can get more stuff in a flight case then.