Flash Player 10.2 is out, do you want the optimized Flash Player on iPad?

[fertilized-egg]

It is irrelevant, the names are irrelevant, we are talking about 4 of the dozens if not hundreds of companies, just google "ipad subscription" NOT ONE SINGLE media beside the daily thingy has cut a deal and that's just for magazines, we see same with content distributor,

But you're still talking about content middlemen. I'm still asking if you have any evidence that apps and games developers are moving away from the curated native app store model to web apps. All I see is everyone moving toward app stores. Just give me some evidence.

lol again he's ignoring the valid point that the other app stores and market places have a 30% 'tax' that was pointed out earlier.

also still not shown me a flash game that is at the level of Infinity Blade.
...
No valid response to the extremely valid point that people will not go outside their devices respective ecosystem to buy some webapp over using a marketplace/app store to buy a native one.

I'm really curious why he thinks people will start ditching app stores for web apps when every evidence points exactly the opposite. People love using curated store/markets and developers love the increased sales even after the cut. Every platform owners have realized that and yet here he is telling us that is not so.

 

[flexengineer]

lol again he's ignoring the valid point that the other app stores and market places have a 30% 'tax' that was pointed out earlier.

Keep talking, look at the poll, that's all what matters, I do not care what YOU think or believe, I have no interest in converting you, what I want is people who are fanatics and unconditional supporter of Apple to understand what is going on and obviously they do.

ONLY APPLE FORCE TO KICK USERS OUT OF THE BROWSER INTO PROPRIETARY APPS TO CONDUCT BUSINESS, ONLY APPLE IS TRYING TO RACKET BUSINESS WITH NEW IN-APP AND CONTENT TAX ON TOP OF SALES TAX.

But you're still talking about content middlemen. I'm still asking if you have any evidence that apps and games developers are moving away from the curated native app store model to web apps. All I see is everyone moving toward app stores. Just give me some evidence.

I do not have evidences because it is happening and unfolding as we speak, call me a liar if you want I do not care, I will come back show it when it happens publicly.

The only evidences are the fact that there is a Flash Platform momentum across all screen, computers and devices, something Apple only wish it could achieve, and the other evidence is that using Flash to develop apps for all devices will save you 100 to 150% development time PER OPERATING SYSTEM vs native apps, that means Apple failed in stopping Flash in its propagation, that is one.

Then, we have the evidence that Apple recently changed its terms to impose more tax and it is outraging everybody affected by it, just google it!

Now, watch what effect that is going to have on AppStore, iTunes and even iOS as a whole.

 

[fertilized-egg]

ONLY APPLE FORCE TO KICK USERS OUT OF THE BROWSER INTO PROPRIETARY APPS TO CONDUCT BUSINESS, ONLY APPLE IS TRYING TO RACKET BUSINESS WITH NEW IN-APP AND CONTENT TAX ON TOP OF SALES TAX.

Wait, are you still talking about the same thing? Now it's about in-app and content tax, not apps and games? Stay on the topic please. Are users ditching native apps and curated app stores in favor of individual web apps or is it the other way around?

Related question. If you're writing books, why do you sell through publishers? Why do publishers sell their books through Amazon and pay "Tax"?

 

[BaldiMac]

until then I bail out!

You've promised that a couple times now.

Baldminac, it's 200 million, remember when we argued and I said the numbers do not add up and you accused me to sidetrack to avouid admitting I am wrong, remember? Well, the reason is that Adobe successed in forcing Flash to iOS therough AIR so it's not 20 million devices we can put Flash on bu 85 million as of today, and 200 million by the end of the year.

I remember the argument clearly. Adobe thinks the Flash Player will be supported on 132 million devices by the end of the year. Not installed on. Supported on.

http://eon.businesswire.com/news/eon/20110213005219/en

What's your source?

And, of course, even at 200 million devices, you were still wrong. But you don't even remember what you said.

My battle is over, my Flash apps get on iPad and iPhone period, the rest is up to the consumers to vote with their wallets because they get screwed, I don't care, I will pass the 30% tax to the consumers on iOS for any app I should be able to run in the browser and can't, let's see how many of us developers and publishers decide to do so. Trust me, you are going to cry this year watching your world collapse!

Cocoa Puffs?

 

[shandyman]

Keep talking, look at the poll, that's all what matters, I do not care what YOU think or believe, I have no interest in converting you, what I want is people who are fanatics and unconditional supporter of Apple to understand what is going on and obviously they do.

haha again you go to the poll, which as i have pointed out is meaningless. but you choose to ignore that. Tell me, do you REALLY think this poll is representative of iOS users AS A WHOLE?

as for your statement of wanting fanatics and unconditional supporters of apple to understand what is going on.. where are you getting the info tthat they obviously do?

 

[flexengineer]

haha again you go to the poll, which as i have pointed out is meaningless. but you choose to ignore that. Tell me, do you REALLY think this poll is representative of iOS users AS A WHOLE?

as for your statement of wanting fanatics and unconditional supporters of apple to understand what is going on.. where are you getting the info tthat they obviously do?

Sorry I meant people who ARE NOT fanatics and inconditional supporters, like the people who participated at the beginning of the thread when I started it and at least 60% so far of those who voted, plus probably some of those who voted no and are not fanatics, I have no interest in playing like 13yo with you guys I am sorry. Trust me, I will come back every single time there is something relevant actually happening and we will discuss that, I made a mistake by posting my predictions, I apologize and I will talk to you later, as I said will laugh hard who will laugh last, I will prove sooner or later that iOS users are overtaxed, I am actually working on a published article for it, I will make my points without you to be able to turn it in all direction to dissolve the conversation. By the time I make a point, you guys are so on me like pirhanas than in 30 minutes the point is way lost in back history.

I will focus on facts, and I will show what I say will happen when it happens.

 

[shandyman]

Sorry I meant people who ARE NOT fanatics and inconditional supporters, like the people who participated at the beginning of the thread when I started it and at least 60% so far of those who voted, plus probably some of those who voted no and are not fanatics, I have no interest in playing like 13yo with you guys I am sorry. Trust me, I will come back every single time there is something relevant actually happening and we will discuss that, I made a mistake by posting my predictions, I apologize and I will talk to you later, as I said will laugh hard who will laugh last, I will prove sooner or later that iOS users are overtaxed, I am actually working on a published article for it, I will make my points without you to be able to turn it in all direction to dissolve the conversation. By the time I make a point, you guys are so on me like pirhanas than in 30 minutes the point is way lost in back history.

I will focus on facts, and I will show that what I say will happen when it happens.

lol the funny thing is, you're the fanatic and unconditional supporter, just about flash. I'm no unconditional supporter or fanatic, why do you think i kept pointing out that other app stores & marketplaces charge 30% too and that Joe Public (ie the MAJORITY user) will not pay for apps for their phones outside it's respective ecosystem. also i have issues with apple, for starters the notification system for iOS, custom sms tones and email tones, amongst other things, i do not have a Mac and would NEVER get one, i love my Windows PC. so you're really desperate to try and debunk my comments by throwing fanboy at me, whereas you've been singing the hymn of flash is glorious for days now and people can see that.

you've the one that dissolved the conversation by changing subject or making new irrelevant points when we counter or question your original ocmments, even on this page you ignored my questions to points you made pages back:

also still not shown me a flash game that is at the level of Infinity Blade.

also cannot acknowledge that this forum consists of a niche audience that is not representative of iOS or any other mobile/tablet or even computer OS.

No valid response to the extremely valid point that people will not go outside their devices respective ecosystem to buy some webapp over using a marketplace/app store to buy a native one.

cannot accept that Amazon are milking the publicity by their actions which they will backtrack on as they will not cut out potential customers.

there's just some points he's avoided so far without even looking back and now he claims we've ruined the thread because his argument has started to become flaky...

Again you go back to the poll, which numerous times over the last few days, and even today, i pointed out means nothing in the scheme of things, that the amount of people on this forum do not represent the majority of iOS users, and the amount of people that participated in this thread even less so.

 

[flexengineer]

lol the funny thing is, you're the fanatic and unconditional supporter, just about flash.

The difference is I am among the references in the country when it gets to Flash platform, I am the guy who walk into a room at one of the top 10 broadcasting network in the country and show them how much Apple is full of ****, how much HTML5 is Steve Jobs tool to destroy the browser and the web I walk out with Flash Platform being chosen to publish 35 years of video archive for 5 channels online, with a limited app for iPhone.

Are you Apple expert? Are you a reference in term of something related to Apple? Do you have any insider knowledge? Not secret, just stuff you di not read in blogs... Are you communicating with actual high executives and significant shareholders from both Apple and Adobe? And here I am lowering myself to respond to you. I rock Flash because I know Flash Platform beats everything on the market, keep player barbie with javascript lol

 

[Carouser]

No they do not, not all and it is irrelevant anyway that is why I do not even answer your stupid questions but you cant help to drag me back into it and if I do not you lash trying to make me look bad so I am coming back.

IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY
THEY DO NOT NEED APPLE TO CONDUCT BUSINESS
THEY WILL EITHER BYPASS IOS OR PASS THE TAX
THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAT APPLE ON PRICING
THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONDUCT BUSINESS IN THE BROWSER

I just wanted to say that this is the best meltdown I have seen on these forums so far. Wow.

 

[shandyman]

The difference is I am among the references in the country when it gets to Flash platform, I am the guy who walk into a room at one of the top 10 broadcasting network in the country and show them how much Apple is full of ****, how much HTML5 is Steve Jobs tool to destroy the browser and the web I walk out with Flash Platform being chosen to publish 35 years of video archive for 5 channels online, with a limited app for iPhone.

Are you Apple expert? Are you a reference in term of something related to Apple? Do you have any insider knowledge? Not secret, just stuff you di not read in blogs... Are you communicating with actual high executives and significant shareholders from both Apple and Adobe? And here I am lowering myself to respond to you. I rock Flash because I know Flash Platform beats everything on the market, keep player barbie with javascript lol

i didn't know i had to have all sorts of credentials to speak common sense on a forum. you really are making yourself look worse and worse....

BTW yet again you've 'Dissolved' the conversation to ignore responding on my very valid points....

 

[shandyman]

I just wanted to say that this is the best meltdown I have seen on these forums so far. Wow.

i know, it's highly entertaining and it's still going.. i've got popcorn! not really, i can't eat it since my op the other day

 

[flexengineer]

i know, it's highly entertaining and it's still going.. i've got popcorn! not really, i can't eat it since my op the other day

I just wanted to say that this is the best meltdown I have seen on these forums so far. Wow.

I will agree with that if at least you guys would let me walk out but you have to bring me back every time and god forbids if I do not answer and leave! Let's peace out, I will come back when facts and events prove me right or wrong.

 

[shandyman]

I will agree with that if at least you guys would let me walk out but you have to bring me back every time and god forbids if I do not answer and leave! Let's peace out, I will come back when facts and events prove me right or wrong.

you don't have to come back, but we just want you to actually answer our points to what you originally said.

also still not shown me a flash game that is at the level of Infinity Blade.

also cannot acknowledge that this forum consists of a niche audience that is not representative of iOS or any other mobile/tablet or even computer OS, therefore making the poll realy a pointless exercise in measuring what the general iOS user wants.

No valid response to the extremely valid point that people will not go outside their devices respective ecosystem to buy some webapp over using a marketplace/app store to buy a native one.

you cannot accept that Amazon are milking the publicity by their actions which they will backtrack on as they will not cut out potential customers.

 

[flexengineer]

you don't have to come back, but we just want you to actually answer our points to what you originally said.

Ok if you want answer that bad let's do this, forget whatever you said or I said, ask me your questions one at a time and I will answer short one at a time, because seriously I am lost and I got a headache.

 

[shandyman]

Ok if you want answer that bad let's do this, forget whatever you said or I said, ask me your questions one at a time and I will answer short one at a time, because seriously I am lost and I got a headache.

i quoted them above. they were all points to things you have said and not answered over the last bunch of pages. answer them, or don't i don't care.

 

[flexengineer]

i quoted them above. they were all points to things you have said and not answered over the last bunch of pages. answer them, or don't i don't care.

It's too confusing, there would be hours of rhetoric, if you have a question just ask it to me or stop saying I do not answer.
I will answer your questions if you ask them, like clear questions with a "?" at the end.

 

[shandyman]

It's too confusing, there would be hours of rhetoric, if you have a question just ask it to me or stop saying I do not answer.
I will answer your questions if you ask them, like clear questions with a "?" at the end.

i made those valid counter points to your points or requests for evidence of your points, the list above was a compilation of these. is it really hard to understand and respond?

 

[flexengineer]

i made those valid counter points to your points or requests for evidence of your points, the list above was a compilation of these. is it really hard to understand and respond?

Because they are not questions, I dont answer to statements and I do not even have to answer anything, I might skip because I do not know, or because I consider it is out of topic but if it is very important to you then ask it to me again using a simple question.

In the case of the game you pointed out, cant remember the name, I did not answer because I do not know and I did not believe it was relevant, whether or not my claims will hold true or false is not depending on what is on the market and successful today, I neither live nor work in the today if I would I would suck at what I do.

Furthermore, I do not play game and I do not make games at all, usually people who do it well only do that, I make app and I am specialized in rich media (all form of audio and video), communication (chat, messaging, peer to peer), data visualization and the social space (all social apis) so I could not tell you anything about games but if you want I can ask the game people at Adobe and I am sure I will bring back an answer to you within a couple of days. All I know about games is that Adobe is apparently breaking ground with Flash Player 11 codename Molehill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaXvTsoeVs

Those games are based on that new engine build in Flash Player and it is pretty mind blowing, we never seen that on the web, and I do not think iPad or iPhone users will be able to get it at all since I believe it depends on the Flash Player (browser) and not the AIR runtime (desktop on computers or native on mobile), so even though we can push Flash app to iPhone and iPad, we can't push all the advanced video, peer to peer or 3D features and as Flash get momentum customers are going to be demanding those apps and games as they get popular and guess what? iOS users will have to swallow it.

What were your other questions?

 

[decksnap]

I hope you didn't work on the Quickbooks web apps, because they're garbage. Pretty much like everything that gets done in Flash, needlessly slower and buggier.

 

[flexengineer]

I hope you didn't work on the Quickbooks web apps, because they're garbage. Pretty much like everything that gets done in Flash, needlessly slower and buggier.

Intuit in Montain View is trying to recruit me as we speak for a contract, so I might be able to make it better You will find sucky apps everywhere, just put your money somehwere else and reward those that work well regardless of what they are. There is reason why they use Flash and did you ever consider that Flash might be the only solution for what they do? What are you suggesting they do those apps with? Please for christ's sake do not tell me HTML5!!! I do not believe your statement all Flash apps are garbage is true unless the application is in Flash and not Flex, which would explain why Intuit is recruiting and would indicate a different version of Quickbook online. Even if it is true, just dont install Flash! It works perfectly fine for most of us.

 

[shandyman]

Because they are not questions, I dont answer to statements and I do not even have to answer anything, I might skip because I do not know, or because I consider it is out of topic but if it is very important to you then ask it to me again using a simple question.

In the case of the game you pointed out, cant remember the name, I did not answer because I do not know and I did not believe it was relevant, whether or not my claims will hold true or false is not depending on what is on the market and successful today, I neither live nor work in the today if I would I would suck at what I do.

Furthermore, I do not play game and I do not make games at all, usually people who do it well only do that, I make app and I am specialized in rich media (all form of audio and video), communication (chat, messaging, peer to peer), data visualization and the social space (all social apis) so I could not tell you anything about games but if you want I can ask the game people at Adobe and I am sure I will bring back an answer to you within a couple of days. All I know about games is that Adobe is apparently breaking ground with Flash Player 11 codename Molehill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szaXvTsoeVs

Those games are based on that new engine build in Flash Player and it is pretty mind blowing, we never seen that on the web, and I do not think iPad or iPhone users will be able to get it at all since I believe it depends on the Flash Player and not the AIR runtime, so even though we can push Flash app to iPhone and iPad, we can't push all the advanced video, peer to peer or 3D features and as Flash get momentum customers are going to be demanding those apps and games as they get popular and guess what? iOS users will have to swallow it.

What were your other questions?

You were the one that said about flash games being great pages ago, i challenged you and you showed some random casual game, i specified Infinity Blade as it's just flat out fantastic, that video is good, but not near enough at the level of infinity blade, that video is probably 2 years behind infinity blade in respect of quality. My point was that there are no flash games now at that level and if that video is a sample of what's to come out this year, just shows that it's still behind a native app.

plus again i point out, you were the one that brought up flash games as part of your side of the debate, i just called you on it and it's taken you over a day and a half to respond and the best you could do to support your statement was that.

my other counter points included:

You keep referring to this poll as if it actually means something when it doesn't as this forum consists of a niche audience that is not representative of iOS or any other mobile/tablet or even computer OS, therefore making the poll realy a pointless exercise in measuring what the general iOS user wants.

You had no valid response to the extremely valid point that people will not go outside their devices respective ecosystem to buy some webapp over using a marketplace/app store to buy a native one.

I pointed out that are milking the publicity by their actions which they will backtrack on as they will not cut out potential customers. Yes they make a big song and dance about boycotting apple at launch, but that's simple attention seeking, will get them noticed, but by the end of the year, they will have a native app as they will not totally disregard the iOS user, it's basic business, get your product to everywhere possible, to not do so is to cut your nose off to spite your face. When they do release a native app, they'll make out that they're the bigger person and did not want to exclude people.

 

[flexengineer]

You were the one that said about flash games being great pages ago, i challenged you and you showed some random casual game, i specified Infinity Blade as it's just flat out fantastic, that video is good, but not near enough at the level of infinity blade, that video is probably 2 years behind infinity blade in respect of quality. My point was that there are no flash games now at that level and if that video is a sample of what's to come out this year, just shows that it's still behind a native app.

plus again i point out, you were the one that brought up flash games as part of your side of the debate, i just called you on it and it's taken you over a day and a half to respond and the best you could do to support your statement was that.

my other counter points included:

You keep referring to this poll as if it actually means something when it doesn't as this forum consists of a niche audience that is not representative of iOS or any other mobile/tablet or even computer OS, therefore making the poll realy a pointless exercise in measuring what the general iOS user wants.

You had no valid response to the extremely valid point that people will not go outside their devices respective ecosystem to buy some webapp over using a marketplace/app store to buy a native one.

I pointed out that are milking the publicity by their actions which they will backtrack on as they will not cut out potential customers. Yes they make a big song and dance about boycotting apple at launch, but that's simple attention seeking, will get them noticed, but by the end of the year, they will have a native app as they will not totally disregard the iOS user, it's basic business, get your product to everywhere possible, to not do so is to cut your nose off to spite your face. When they do release a native app, they'll make out that they're the bigger person and did not want to exclude people.

Okay, got it, thank you for explaining, you are right, I am wrong, you win. Whatever you say, consider me agreeing with it. As I said, I will come back. By the way, does your game play in the browser? On Facebook? Without to pay Apple? That's right. Answering you is systematically a loss of time, I wont anymore, keep talking.

 

[shandyman]

Okay, got it, thank you for explaining, you are right, I am wrong, you win. Whatever you say, consider me agreeing with it. As I said, I will come back. By the way, does your game play in the browser? On Facebook? Without to pay Apple? That's right. Answering you is systematically a loss of time, I wont anymore, keep talking.

lol you proved my point. you were saying about inbrowser flash gaming cannot be done on an iOS device due to not supporting flash, but can do on android or whatever. I pointed out that flash cannot do games as good as native apps, giving infinity blade as an example. you came back giving link to some random casual game that are abundant on the app store, even free.

So thanks for proving my point plus i'd rather play infinity blade on my iPhone as opposed to crappy farmville or whatever in a browser on my iPhone.

so you agree that the poll on this forum is not representative of iOS users on the whole? if so, why, over the last 5 pages or so, were you so adamant that the fact the poll was slightly in your favour was a big thing?

Also that your whole big point that Amazon would not ever do cloud player on iOS may be flawed based on you bigging up their shunning at launch?

and that the fact you claim web apps will make an app store/market place redundant was flawed by the fact that general public would just totally ignore that and stick to their devices ecosystem?

it's only a loss of time cos your points are totally flawed by your narrowmindedness based on you living and breathing your profession.....

 

[fertilized-egg]

Okay, got it, thank you for explaining, you are right, I am wrong, you win. ... By the way, does your game play in the browser? On Facebook? Without to pay Apple?

Don't get too angry. We are just getting tired of you evading the real question.

Here 's your claim. "people will avoid native app stores and developers will avoid app stores because the apps can be sold without going through the platform ecosystem, because developers hate paying ecosystem 'tax' which will make apps more expensive within the ecosystem"

The problem with your argument is that is exactly the opposite of what has happened in real life. At one point, everyone was providing apps through carrier-managed stores or through sideloading. Android and Symbian still support sideloading to this day.

Yet no one really cares much about sideloading unless they are hacking or pirating. Almost everyone is using the Android market or the Amazon appstore, and the Nokia Ovi and Blackberry app world are booming. If your claim is right, no one with brains will use the Android/Amazon/Nokia/Blackberry market because they don't want to pay the evil 30% "tax" to Google, RIM, etc. Thus your hypothesis has already proven utterly wrong. If people and developers are willing to pay the 30% "tax" when there's sideloading available, what makes you think people will like using web apps more than the native app store???

Unless you can give us some evidence otherwise, the fact already says you're just giving us nothing more than a conjecture based on your odd business knowledge. Contrary to your claim, developers have decided that paying "the tax" is actually the better way to sell their apps and people love going through a centralized curated app store.

Also more to the point, developers are not passing 30% "tax" to their customers because they are simply making more money by paying the "tax" so they have no need to pass on the "tax" to the consumers. If anything, they actually can lower the price while paying the "tax," because being in the ecosystem bring in more customers. I'm surprised that you cannot grasp this simple business concept.

 

[flexengineer]

Don't get too angry. We are just getting tired of you evading the real question.

Here 's your claim. "people will avoid native app stores and developers will avoid app stores because the apps can be sold without going through the platform ecosystem, because developers hate paying ecosystem 'tax' which will make apps more expensive within the ecosystem"

I did not say that, you are so desperate to make your point (that native app are popular, which is irrelevant) that now you take what I say, put it in your own words based on your interpretation, put it between quote and serve your point with it claiming I said it, unbelievable! You quoting yourself and claim I said it, I feel really sorry for you but dont wonder why I ignore you or at least do not answer or enter in your discussions.

If you cannot comprehend what I said, please quote my exact phrases and ask a simple question because honestly I only read the first two line of your messages.

So, basically: 1/ quote my own sentences, 2/ ask clear questions, otherwise keep talking but dont expect me to play your game and answer.