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Flash Player 10.2 is out, do you want the optimized Flash Player on iPad?
- Thread starter flexengineer
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I don't think people in this thread, inluding me, really understood the extent of his claim.
Basically he's telling us Adobe Flex will destroy all the curated app store/markets on platforms with (eventual) Flash support such as Android market, Blackberry app world, Microsoft marketplace, Amazon app store, etc, because users are smart enough not to pay %30 "tax" and will use the web apps instead. Only iOS users will be forced to pay more for native apps while all other platform users will be enjoying web based apps without going through a centralized store that charges developers.
I mean, there are some credible reasons to enable Flash but that claim is just ...wow.. it is the first time I actually really felt a tinge of amazement from a religious evangelicism. ( ok k that was an exaggeration
)If Flash doesn't die, Apple will have made a big mistake. I often come across Flash videos that don't work. The Huffington Post uses videos from various sources and 75% of them don't work. The Daily Show episodes don't work. Episodes of The Office don't work. HBO.com doesn't work. Essentially every live stream, including Whitehouse.gov, doesn't work. I had to watch the World Cup on my Droid while waiting at the airport. Please don't tell me Flash is hardly used. I run across something every other day that can't be played.
That is not what OP is saying. He is saying Flash-based web apps and games will remove the need for the native app stores.
My bad, you are right, Apple only tried to block other solutions and everything got sorted out during the EU and FTC joint investigation in 2010. Thanks for pointing that out.
I don't think people in this thread, inluding me, really understood the extent of his claim.
Basically he's telling us Adobe Flex will destroy all the curated app store/markets on platforms with (eventual) Flash support such as Android market, Blackberry app world, Microsoft marketplace, Amazon app store, etc, because users are smart enough not to pay %30 "tax" and will use the web apps instead. Only iOS users will be forced to pay more for native apps while all other platform users will be enjoying web based apps without going through a centralized store that charges developers.
I mean, there are some credible reasons to enable Flash but that claim is just ...wow.. it is the first time I actually really felt a tinge of amazement from a religious evangelicism. ( ok k that was an exaggeration
And yesterday he posted that Apple's "war" against Flash is over because Flash developers can now publish to the App Store with the new AIR SDK. Truly, he has a dizzying intellect.
Wrong. Again.
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Why? Did Apple say "No Flash on iOS ever at all, no backsies"?
They can start implementing Flash tomorrow if they want to.
Its called free competition my friend and it will not destroy anyone, it will just lower the absolutely megalomaniac 30% tax on everything because when Apple will have competition in the browser then they will not be able to surcharge their customers anymore, they can control native apps but not the web.
Nope, I said it is now only affecting the end users on iOS, we won since the day AIR 2.6 was released because now no matter what we can push the same exact code everywhere, can Apple offer you that? Now it is just a question of in the browser or native app, there is no more obstacle to Flash on iOS, just in the browser.
Wrong. Again. You realize you are connected to the internet and can verify this information before you post it, right?
You said exactly what I said that you said.
Here:
I wouldn't want them to. I chose the Mac, because I like the Mac UI. I chose an iOS device because I like the iOS interface. I don't want a one size fits all solution.
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I said, you said... that is a typical technique you have been using to dissolve the conversation. This is the subject in hand now, can we focus on it?
Using that exactly the same logic why would anyone use the Android market, Blackberry app world, Microsoft marketplace or Amazon appstore when the users can enjoy all the Flex apps - which will be the leading development platform by far according to you - for free on the web without having to pay "megalomaniac 30% tax"? If your claim is right, the competition WILL destory any market that charges.
I do not think so, if the tax is reasonable, like a credit card transaction, publishers will absorb it and put their same Flash app from the web available as native app for the convenience of the customer who at the end is the one to decide whether browser is good enough or not. Right now Apple is overtaxing just because it is not possible to compete with native app in the browser.
It is actually racket, tell me if I am wrong but when someone creates a problem (ban of flash in the browser) and offer the solution for money in same time (native apps) it is the actual legal definition of racket, it's just Apple so good luck proving it in court, we had to fight using other channels such as regulators and industry-wide close partnerships.
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The above is downright elegant in its leaps and contortions of logic. It's generally good to be faithful to what others say in a conversation, to consult their words, and to be hold one's self to them. To say that such an approach 'dissolves the conversation' is to beggar belief. And then to ask us to focus on the subject at hand by directing the conversation elsewhere! Such inversions! It's almost poetic.
Anyway, fertilized-egg and BaldiMac nailed it, as they usually do.
EDIT: This idea of a flat plane where all apps exist simultaneously on the web and in the App store is a pure fiction. Developers simply aren't going to do this. You end up with a situation where a developer has two versions (web and App) and competes with itself.
You posted false information. I posted the truth. And you are claiming that I'm the one trying to dissolve the conversation?
This subject has been addressed in several recent posts. You just choose to ignore the substantive arguments.
Errr...your reasonableness of fee is, what 2-3%? That's simply ridiculous, especially knowing Apple is not making that much money from app store evenat 30%.
You are basically claiming all this just based on your conjecture that people want to go for free web apps. It has been shown again and again people appreciate having a centralized appstore and publishers are willing to pay 30% even if they cry about it because they like selling more stuff in app stores.
I have used this anaology before. Do you like paying "tax" to your supermarket? Why dont't you go straight to farmers for everything?
And we haven't even touched whether people actually like using web apps or not, which is an entirely different claim based on...nothing but your "tax" theory.
Keep talking guys, the poll was stuck at 55% for 2 days and has been going up ever since you all got on my case like pirhanas. This thread was clean and enjoyable until you arrived (Baldimac has been following me like a shadow here and on another thread). I am tired, I will come back when there is news to post, which will be probably tomorrow or tonight arounf 11pm when I get the articles of the day. You are amusing people, you really are but this is an endless fight so keep talking... I said everything I had to say so if you have a question for me just read the thread again you will find the answer.
Seriously. Go to an Android forum, post the exactly the same stuff you have been posting and see what Android users will say about using web apps. Go on and try it on the people who dont't care for Apple. please let us know if they like it.
How about we stop using the word "tax" in this situation. Since it doesn't actually apply. The "Apple Tax" is nothing more than a marketing term invented by Microsoft to imply that the differences between a Mac and a PC are valueless. It's a loaded term.
This might be a reasonable argument if Google and Amazon weren't charging the same 30% for app sales. And they are competing with other app stores in addition to Flash apps in the browser.
Unsurprisingly, you are wrong. In your description of the situation and your definition of "racket".
As said eons ago, the poll is meaningless because of selection effects etc., so it looks like flexengineer is actually the one who keeps going back to the well. The thread is still plenty clean; from what I can see people are being quite patient and taking your arguments in good faith but getting exasperated when you dodge the pertinent parts of their posts.
It's almost as if I'm subscribed to the two threads that you mentioned because I'm interested in discussing issues relating to Flash. Weird that would happen in a forum like this.
But, you're right, the claim that I'm following you like a shadow is much more reasonable.
Google and Amazon do not ban Flash in the browser to impose their 30% tax and they have no reason not to align on Apple AppStore.
REALLY!!!! What about Wikipedia definition: the word racket is used to describe a business (or syndicate) that is based on the example of the protection racket and indicates a belief that it is engaged in the sale of a solution to a problem that the institution itself creates or perpetuates, with the specific intent to engender continual patronage. Apple creates the problem (ban Flash in the browser), offers the solution (native app), tax money (30%), that's a match to me.
I'd bet most of the voters were thinking "yes I want Flash so that I can watch (tv station/show here)" They probably weren't thinking about web apps at all.
Call them idiots, I am just not sure that will help the no LOL
Impossible, flexengineer is already married to Adobe
For as long as they will deliver what I consider the best rich application development environment, I will divorce Adobe and marry who ever beats it in the field, not in a CEO's mouth.
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