Flashing FireGL X3

[Energybutton]

So while cleaning out one of my cupboards, I came across a boxed FireGL X3 which is version 109 and has Samsung RAM and after doing some reading and noticing there is now a reduced 64k rom, I decided to try and flash it. I've been at it for two days but have so far been unsuccessful.

I keep getting the following error - 'error programming devices SLOT Slot 1:R420'

I started on my MDD (M8570) with 10.5.8, I taped pins 3&11, plugged in the Molex power and fired up the machine in safe mode. I remote connected and loaded up graphiccelerator 1.3.4, used the misc menu to select the ROM (in this case it was the reduced X800XT rom from gotoh) and ATI Multi Flasher, ran the 'run me first' script then launch the ATI Multi Flasher and hit yes - it returns the same error 'error programming devices SLOT Slot 1:R420'

I then tried again using the FireGL X3 reduced ROM from Tome following the steps above.

Both of the above roms were sourced from themacelite.

I then went back to reading, found this thread - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ati-firegl-x3-flashing-issues.2132795/

Traace was having the same issue as me, LightBulbFun provided a download to what worked for them so I downloaded that, booted back into safe mode, extracted the file and followed the steps highlighted but it returns the same error 'error programming devices SLOT Slot 1:R420'

I then installed Tiger (10.4.11) onto another drive and booted into safe mode, ended up having to use SSH to enable screen sharing but got there in the end but unfortunetly I was met with the same error, I tried the reduced X800XT, FireGLX3 and LightBulbFun's rom, all give the same error above.

I then came across this thread - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/flash-a-pc-x1950xtx-card.1727510/

Which advised of a ROM by Rubberduck13 on the strangedogs forum, so I headed over there and found the rom but it is a BIN file format and extracts to another zipped file so I'm not sure what is going on there.

I then pulled out an early G5, removed the tape on the pins and cleaned the pins with contact cleaner and tried again, using all 3 ROMS, unfortunetly resulting in the same error.

On both the G4 and G5 I see an ATI(0x1002) in slot 1 with DID of 4A4D.

I did end up having to change the DID in two places in I believe the X800XT ROM as it was listed as 4A48.

So I have a few questions I'm hoping someone will have the knowledge to answer,

1. Is there a way to get ATI Multi Flasher into a debugging mode to give me more information about where the problem may be?

2. Aquamac advises to use the No Confirm flasher and Panther (I have no problem installing Panther on another drive) but I cannot find the No Confirm flasher anywhere, does anyone know where I might be able to get this?

I'd really rather not go out and get an AGP pc to flash this so any help would be appreicated.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

FireGL X3 is problematic. Did your card have Samsung memory?

I have flashed a FireGL in November I think. I’m really sure the X3 rom doesn’t work and I have used the X800 Rom after modified the cpu and ram clock speed.

I also used an external flasher, because you can’t flash the 4A48 Rom to the X3 with the MacOS ATI flasher

 

[LightBulbFun]

So while cleaning out one of my cupboards, I came across a boxed FireGL X3 which is version 109 and has Samsung RAM and after doing some reading and noticing there is now a reduced 64k rom, I decided to try and flash it. I've been at it for two days but have so far been unsuccessful.

I keep getting the following error - 'error programming devices SLOT Slot 1:R420'

I started on my MDD (M8570) with 10.5.8, I taped pins 3&11, plugged in the Molex power and fired up the machine in safe mode. I remote connected and loaded up graphiccelerator 1.3.4, used the misc menu to select the ROM (in this case it was the reduced X800XT rom from gotoh) and ATI Multi Flasher, ran the 'run me first' script then launch the ATI Multi Flasher and hit yes - it returns the same error 'error programming devices SLOT Slot 1:R420'

I then tried again using the FireGL X3 reduced ROM from Tome following the steps above.

Both of the above roms were sourced from themacelite.

I then went back to reading, found this thread - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ati-firegl-x3-flashing-issues.2132795/

Traace was having the same issue as me, LightBulbFun provided a download to what worked for them so I downloaded that, booted back into safe mode, extracted the file and followed the steps highlighted but it returns the same error 'error programming devices SLOT Slot 1:R420'

I then installed Tiger (10.4.11) onto another drive and booted into safe mode, ended up having to use SSH to enable screen sharing but got there in the end but unfortunetly I was met with the same error, I tried the reduced X800XT, FireGLX3 and LightBulbFun's rom, all give the same error above.

I then came across this thread - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/flash-a-pc-x1950xtx-card.1727510/

Which advised of a ROM by Rubberduck13 on the strangedogs forum, so I headed over there and found the rom but it is a BIN file format and extracts to another zipped file so I'm not sure what is going on there.

I then pulled out an early G5, removed the tape on the pins and cleaned the pins with contact cleaner and tried again, using all 3 ROMS, unfortunetly resulting in the same error.

On both the G4 and G5 I see an ATI(0x1002) in slot 1 with DID of 4A4D.

I did end up having to change the DID in two places in I believe the X800XT ROM as it was listed as 4A48.

So I have a few questions I'm hoping someone will have the knowledge to answer,

1. Is there a way to get ATI Multi Flasher into a debugging mode to give me more information about where the problem may be?

2. Aquamac advises to use the No Confirm flasher and Panther (I have no problem installing Panter on another drive) but I cannot find the No Confirm flasher anywhere, does anyone know where I might be able to get this?

I'd really rather not go out and get an AGP pc to flash this so any help would be appreicated.

what EEPROM does your FireGL X3 have exactly?

not all are supported by the Mac Flasher sadly http://themacelite.wikidot.com/rom-s

also what MDD do you have exactly, if you have a Firewire 400 MDD its worth making sure your BootROM is fully up to date just to rule out any issues there

 

[TzunamiOSX]

what EEPROM does your FireGL X3 have exactly?

not all are supported by the Mac Flasher sadly http://themacelite.wikidot.com/rom-s

also what MDD do you have exactly, if you have a Firewire 400 MDD its worth making sure your BootROM is fully up to date just to rule out any issues there

This was not the EEPROM. You can’t flash a 4A48 over a 4A4D, because the flasher gives you an error. After I flashed the X800 Rom, I have flashed the card multiple times with the Mac ATI flasher to found a usable frequency for the Infineon memory.

Im on a G5, so no problems with the pins or rom.

 

[LightBulbFun]

This was not the EEPROM. You can’t flash a 4A48 over a 4A4D, because the flasher gives you an error. After I flashed the X800 Rom, I have flashed the card multiple times with the Mac ATI flasher to found a usable frequency for the Infineon memory.

Im on a G5, so no problems with the pins or rom.

I was responding to @Energybutton hence his post being quoted in my response


but while im here so to speak, in reference to your first post

the FireGL X3 ROM works just fine with the OS X flasher, it was properly edited with the correct device ID's when it was made and requires no editing when used with a suitable FireGL X3

me and many many other people have used it many many times without any issues with regards to flashing itself (I myself have flashed my own FireGL X3 multiple 10's of times now without issue)


I am also no stranger to device ID and ROM editing

EEPROM replacement and flashing X850 XT ROM on FireGL X3

So a few days ago a bunch of new soldering equipment i ordered arrived (mostly for another big project that ill be undertaking once that main part for that arrives) and one of the things i wanted to do with this was solder a larger (128K) ROM chip to my FireGL X3 and flash it with an X850XT ROM...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Energybutton]

FireGL X3 is problematic. Did your card have Samsung memory?

I have flashed a FireGL in November I think. I’m really sure the X3 rom doesn’t work and I have used the X800 Rom after modified the cpu and ram clock speed.

I also used an external flasher, because you can’t flash the 4A48 Rom to the X3 with the MacOS ATI flasher

It appears that way haha.

Yes the specific example I have does have Samsung Memory and appears to have a device ID of 4A4D which I did edit in the X800XT rom from 4A48.

what EEPROM does your FireGL X3 have exactly?

not all are supported by the Mac Flasher sadly http://themacelite.wikidot.com/rom-s

also what MDD do you have exactly, if you have a Firewire 400 MDD its worth making sure your BootROM is fully up to date just to rule out any issues there

I pulled the cooler from the card and used your other guide to locate it (Thanks!) it appears to have an ST 25P05VP (I have attached a picture). It looks close to the ST model numbers on themacelite bar the last character.

The MDD is a FW400 model and I have no idea if the BootROM is up-to date, I’ll find out what the latest revision is and install it if required after work.

Thank you both!

 

[for this]

The MDD is a FW400 model and I have no idea if the BootROM is up-to date, I’ll find out what the latest revision is and install it if required after work.

The latest Boot ROM for FW400 MDD is 4.4.8f2.

You can check it at System Profiler > Hardware > Boot ROM Version.

 

[Energybutton]

The latest Boot ROM for FW400 MDD is 4.4.8f2.

You can check it at System Profiler > Hardware > Boot ROM Version.

Thanks!

I checked and it does indeed have the latest BootROM, it shows 4.4.8f2 in System Profiler.

On another note I have checked the datasheet for the ST 25P05VP, it reports a 512kbit chip which would indicate the card has a 64Kbyte EEPROM. I managed to use the ATI tools to pull the rom from the card which it had no problems doing so it is able to communicate with the card to an extent.

Do these cards have write protection? I seem to recall when I was doing this back in the day that there were cards with write protection and you had to jump two pins on the EEPROM to override it, however I cannot remember which model it was.

 

[z970]

@Energybutton Did you ever get this issue solved? I'm currently dealing with the exact same problem with an ATI Radeon 9700 TX on 10.4.11, and cannot find any resource available pointing to any solution of any sort.

 

[ervus]

Instead of making a new thread, I thought I'd try to put some more info in this one. I got one of these cards and was able to flash it in a MDD with the ROM on themacelite. However, I get artifacts. It does it hot or cold, and changing the memory/GPU speeds has no noticeable effect. Is this definitely a hardware problem (i.e. damaged card), or could it be something to do with the ROM?

 

[Wild Hare]

Close inspect / test capacitors. Had a card (ATI?) that was also showing artifacts and replaced one capacitor that was only slightly bulging (at top) and that stopped the artifacts.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Instead of making a new thread, I thought I'd try to put some more info in this one. I got one of these cards and was able to flash it in a MDD with the ROM on themacelite. However, I get artifacts. It does it hot or cold, and changing the memory/GPU speeds has no noticeable effect. Is this definitely a hardware problem (i.e. damaged card), or could it be something to do with the ROM?

what VRAM does your card have? the Mac ROM is only compatible with Samsung VRAM cards, but not all FireGL X3's have samsung VRAM sadly

I have often wondered if it would be possible to transpose the VRAM settings/timings from a PC ROM into a Mac ROM like you can do with NVIDIA FCode ROM's but I dont think anyones figured it out for ATI FCode ROMs yet

 

[ervus]

Thanks for the replies! The capacitors look good as far as I can inspect/measure, but I did not un-solder all of them. The card has samsung RAM chips. Is there a way to tell if the artifacts are RAM or GPU related?

I was thinking about trying to solder on a new chip. This looks pretty similar and should be from the same "family" of cards; one site called it an "X800 XL" chip, so it might work with the same ROM?:

www.ebay.com/itm/270965548904

Or maybe it's easier to find a different card. I found a web site that explains all the XT XL GTO Pro etc. stuff:

www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/?architecture=R400&sort=generation

So would a "Radeon X850 XT Platinum" be the best card compatible with a G4?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks for the replies! The capacitors look good as far as I can inspect/measure, but I did not un-solder all of them. The card has samsung RAM chips. Is there a way to tell if the artifacts are RAM or GPU related?

I was thinking about trying to solder on a new chip. This looks pretty similar and should be from the same "family" of cards; one site called it an "X800 XL" chip, so it might work with the same ROM?:

www.ebay.com/itm/270965548904

Or maybe it's easier to find a different card. I found a web site that explains all the XT XL GTO Pro etc. stuff:

www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/?architecture=R400&sort=generation

So would a "Radeon X850 XT Platinum" be the best card compatible with a G4?

does the card have artefacts with the PC ROM or not? and do you have a picture of the artefacting?

you would need an R420GL chip to replace like for like, an R420 or R481 may work, but depends on how the device ID straps are set

indeed a Radeon X850 XT Platinum with the ROM replaced for a 128K one and flashed with an X850 XT Mac ROM would be the best you can do

but keep in mind you would only have 2 VGA outputs

a well binned FireGL X3 cross flashed to an X850XT with beefed up cooling may be a better bet since you retain DVI functionality

there was also a Rare Gainward GeForce 7800 GS that can be flashed and be very fast

 

[mikiotty]

Thanks for the replies! The capacitors look good as far as I can inspect/measure, but I did not un-solder all of them. The card has samsung RAM chips. Is there a way to tell if the artifacts are RAM or GPU related?

I was thinking about trying to solder on a new chip. This looks pretty similar and should be from the same "family" of cards; one site called it an "X800 XL" chip, so it might work with the same ROM?:

www.ebay.com/itm/270965548904

Or maybe it's easier to find a different card. I found a web site that explains all the XT XL GTO Pro etc. stuff:

www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/?architecture=R400&sort=generation

So would a "Radeon X850 XT Platinum" be the best card compatible with a G4?

There is a listing on eBay from Germany that has "more than 10" FireGL X3s with Infineon RAM chips. They are brand new. I bought one of those a few weeks ago and it flashed and works flawlessly with proper VRAM frequency set in the ROM.

 

[ervus]

I attached a couple screenshots. The cards do nothing on the PC ROM. The FireGL has some speckles in regular use and has a bunch of crazy lines in openGL. I'm using the reduced ROM (64k).

I could not make the FireGL work right, so I got a X850 Pro. But it also has a 64k ROM so I tried the reduced X800XT ROM and it puts out video but it's not good.

I guess I'll order some 128k ROM chips and see if loading the "original" ROM files available does anything.

People like to complain about ebay sellers and flashed video cards, but this is already more of a project than I wanted. Where else can I get one?

 

[LightBulbFun]

I attached a couple screenshots. The cards do nothing on the PC ROM. The FireGL has some speckles in regular use and has a bunch of crazy lines in openGL. I'm using the reduced ROM (64k).

I could not make the FireGL work right, so I got a X850 Pro. But it also has a 64k ROM so I tried the reduced X800XT ROM and it puts out video but it's not good.

I guess I'll order some 128k ROM chips and see if loading the "original" ROM files available does anything.

People like to complain about ebay sellers and flashed video cards, but this is already more of a project than I wanted. Where else can I get one?

when you say the cards do nothing on the PC ROM, as in dont function at all or dont display any artifacting?

the FireGL X3 and X850 Pro are both cards where only 3/4th of the die are enabled, 12/12/12 but the Mac X800 XT (and X850 XT) is a full 16/16/16 card with all the Shaders TMUs and ROPs enabled, normally unlocking all ROPs and TMU's on a card of this generation requires hard modding the card, but from what I can tell the Mac ROM manages to do this itself

(at least on the FireGL X3's and possibly the X800 Pro and X850 Pro, would be fun to try and flash an X800 GT or SE which is only an 8/8/8 card, but I digress LOL)

but those ROPs and TMU's are often disabled because they are defective, (especially such on the X8xx Pro cards) so it could be sadly that that is what your running into here, the defective parts of the die have been now enabled and are showing artifacting gpu

the issues your having here are nothing to do with the reduced ROM as long as you have the ATI 4.5.7 software update installed (with its hard drive based NDRV) all should work the same as a full ROM

what does the X850 Pro do when flashed? is it the same type of artifacting as the FireGL X3 or something else? "it puts out video, but its not good" does not give me much to go by sadly...

 

[ervus]

We're talking about two cards now. The first picture is the FireGL on the reduced FireGL ROM. The second picture is the X850 Pro on the reduced X800XT ROM. With the PC ROM(s) loaded, the computer will boot but there is no video output. I can VNC into the booted computer, which is how I'm running the flash software.

So it sounds like an "original" 128k X850 ROM might fix both of these cards. I'll order some chips. Can a blank ROM chip be flashed in the computer, or would I need to find a way to program it before installing it on the graphics card?

 

[LightBulbFun]

We're talking about two cards now. The first picture is the FireGL on the reduced FireGL ROM. The second picture is the X850 Pro on the reduced X800XT ROM. With the PC ROM(s) loaded, the computer will boot but there is no video output. I can VNC into the booted computer, which is how I'm running the flash software.

So it sounds like an "original" 128k X850 ROM might fix both of these cards. I'll order some chips. Can a blank ROM chip be flashed in the computer, or would I need to find a way to program it before installing it on the graphics card?

have you tried both ports on the X850 Pro? remember each port will only output VGA this includes the DVI port which wont function as a DVI port but will as a VGA port with a standard DVI-I to VGA adapter,

on some flashed ATI cards you can have one weak VGA port and one good VGA port (this was quite common on flashed PC 9600's IIRC) so going by the fuzzy screenshot may be what your experiencing here, so id try both ports to test out both DAC's on the card

a full sized ROM wont do anything to fix these issues, im not sure where in my post it sounds like I said it would?

and certainly not an X850 XT ROM (which is clocked even higher then an X800 XT ROM so will only likely exacerbate any existing defective silicon issues, and you will also have to edit the device ID of the ROM accordingly)


when you say "the computer" are you talking about a PC here or a Mac? I would not expect an image on a Mac, but on a PC you should very much be getting an image with the PC ROM

have you actually tested any of these cards in an actual PC first? as the old saying goes gotta learn to walk before you can run, and it could be that these cards are simply defective, and dont even work properly when loaded with their normal VBIOS

 

[ervus]

Thanks for the replies. I'm trying to get an AGP video card for my Apple PowerMac G4 Mirror Drive Door (MDD) computer. I thought you said that the two cards I have are partially disabled, thus I need a ROM besides the X800XT. The "original" ROM images available on themacelite are all 128k and the ROM chips on these cards are 64k. I don't see any reduced X850 ROM, so perhaps a matching original version would work with these disabled GPUs. Installing a larger ROM chip would let me use the original ROM versions. I can change the clocks, but this has no noticeable effect.

My PC is a 386 and I have it stored in a landfill. The cards are used and I don't have any other way to test them, which is why I started out asking whether artifacts can be a ROM issue or if they indicate hardware problems.

 

[mikiotty]

This seems a flashing or rom/frequency issue to me, not hardware. It is very unlikely that two completely different cards from two completely different places have the same exact issue only when flashed.
Those artifacts appear on my cards when I use too high/too low frequencies either on the core clock or the VRAM.
Can you post a screenshot of your rom in Graphiccelerator and show the frequencies that you’re using?

Did you try with Leopard instead of Tiger?

P.S. how are you feeding power to the GPU?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks for the replies. I'm trying to get an AGP video card for my Apple PowerMac G4 Mirror Drive Door (MDD) computer. I thought you said that the two cards I have are partially disabled, thus I need a ROM besides the X800XT. The "original" ROM images available on themacelite are all 128k and the ROM chips on these cards are 64k. I don't see any reduced X850 ROM, so perhaps a matching original version would work with these disabled GPUs. Installing a larger ROM chip would let me use the original ROM versions. I can change the clocks, but this has no noticeable effect.

My PC is a 386 and I have it stored in a landfill. The cards are used and I don't have any other way to test them, which is why I started out asking whether artifacts can be a ROM issue or if they indicate hardware problems.

I said pretty clearly in my post, that both the X800 XT and X850 XT Mac editions are fully enabled cards, so none of their ROMs are going to "work", reduced or full sized, it makes no difference, they will always try and enable the Full die even if parts of it have been disabled because they are defective

I dont know how I can be clearer than that! (and no a reduced X850 XT ROM wont work, since thats an OEM card and there is no disk based NDRV for it, so you will be stuck with a fixed rez output at best or at worst a broken 8bit greyscale, although in theory one could extract the NDRV from the ROM and install it to disk, but I digress)


without a suitable PC to test them in its hard to say exactly what the issue is, its either full defective hardware, or simply the extra Shaders TMU's and ROP's that the Mac ROM is enabling on the FireGL X3 and X850 Pro are defective

 

[ervus]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I got the X850 working well. According to the sticker the card is: P/N 102A4751100 Radeon X850 Pro 256MB. I removed two resistors and swapped out the ROM chip. With the OEM Radeon X850XT ROM from themacelite:

 

[mikiotty]

That's a nice score! Glad you got it working!

 

[sphyrch]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I got the X850 working well. According to the sticker the card is: P/N 102A4751100 Radeon X850 Pro 256MB. I removed two resistors and swapped out the ROM chip. With the OEM Radeon X850XT ROM from themacelite:

View attachment 2001601

Hi @ervus , sorry to disturb out of the blue. I'm in exactly the same boat as you, with exactly the same graphics card (X850 Pro 102A4751100). The only difference is that I'm trying to unlock pipelines for X850 Pro for a Windows environment (hardware-wise I've put it in a Asrock 775i65G motherboard with Intel 865 chipset).

I know this is a mac-related forum, but whatever steps you took to unlock your X850 Pro - are those generally applicable or specific to Mac only?

If you could share some details on how you managed to unlock (in case you remember), I'd be really really grateful.