Flaws of the 2012 Retina MBP

[macuser2134]

 

[grrrz]

imo it's a glimps of what will be standard in two years, still freaking too expensive for the average laptop user, it's really a machine for graphists and maybe video editors (who still use fcp 7 in majority or switched to avid or adobe), also
hopefully will be generalised to 13" if they can manage the size; and by that time thunderbolt will have begun replacing firewire in the pro solutions department (audio/video/storage).
Also for firewire, if it's close to "transparent" on the software department, a kind of integrated thunderbolt-firewire full cable (with the electronic on a little pod in the middle of the cable for example) would be an ok solution to use with good old trusty firewire hardware (never used fw800/400 adapter because to fragile, kinda the same here).
about the storage, hopefully there will be third party (probably expensive) replacement, sucks for the ram though.
Also I own the 13", and the resolution could benefit an upgrade, not necesarilly to retina, but the air 13", because what you miss there to work with screen consuming softs is real estate, not sharpness. maybe same goes for the new retina.

 

[DeeEss]

you forgot some items off for list:

No Flux Capacitor for Time Travel
The Ram doesn't regenerate into 32GB RAM in 20 years time
No Blu Ray
No Floppy Drive
You have to type yourself it doesn't type by it's self.
No Microwave for pot noodle

 

[aoaaron]

I love the concept and the idea but can't help but feel this should not be the mainstay of the MBP line.

It seems like a real cash-cow for buyers with the need for adaptors etc. Thunderbolt devices are still expensive and have been pushed onto us if we're to buy the new products.

I like having the many different ports on my laptop without having to buy 4984948984 thunderbolt adaptors. For the price premium, I feel the adaptors should have been included or something.

Really nice to see a HDMI port, The screen sounds phenomenal, I don't like people trying to justify the 720p only webcam. You have a monitor with that kind of resolution and can't take advantage of it? Surely some type of intelligent programming could have managed what resolution the camera does based on available bandwith (doesn't it already?!)? They went easy on the ipad front facing camera which pissed me off and they've done it again iMO.

I can't help but feel this MBP is for video editors and photography now.


native resolution better be changable 1440 size text is ****ing horrible.


other than that though, i'm still very impressed. i'd upgrade because i don't really need all the extra ports other than a USB + a HDMI.
also the -minus glass is big win!! no more glare yessss!

 

[StUPoT]

My 2 cents....

Miles to expensive! So glad a got my mbp about a month ago.
No RAM or HD upgrade! Thats just offensive but in time in sure this will change.

What did we say guys! The 1st gen of anything always has kinks, better to wait for the next one. Then the price may come down aswell.

 

[steve-p]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next refresh brought a 3360x2100 retina screen option which would be the equivalent of a non-retina 1680x1050 screen, a good size for a 15" laptop.

 

[MathiasVH]

Just thought I'd make a thread about the things I specifically didn't like about this redesign. Overall I am loving it though.

I both love and am a little disappointed at the same time.

1. No user upgradeable storage
2. Ditto with RAM. This hurts man.
3. small thing but ONLY ONE HEADPHONE INPUT. what happened to the headphone + microphone jacks like on the last one? I don't want to buy adapters and dongles
4. only two usb ports? Pathetic
5. Also, only 720p camera? Come on this 2012. they probably will update to 1080p in the spec bump next year.
6. $2800 for the high end 15 inch?!!? WTF. I thought the predictions of $3000 were laughable but I guess not.
7. Still only Stereo speakers. No subwoofer on the retina model either!
8. 1440 x 900 base resolution! WTF I need that extra screen space I get with 1650 x 1050!

Feel free to add anything else.

I've been waiting for buying this for several months now but a few things make me hesitant.

The main one is the price. I was willing to spend about $2300- $2400 for a BTO decently upgraded MBP. But this very high starting price is obscene and with the soldered RAM, it's even more expensive(I need 16GB).

The second main one is the screen resolution. Retina's great but the screen space is just too small to do serious work. I was hoping for at least 1080p for base resolution.

There are other things as mentioned in the first list, but these two I just mentioned might be big deal-breakers. I would use this machine for hd video editing and compositing work. I also plan on trying some 3d modeling with it.

Do you guys think it's worth it, even with the big drawbacks?

Just:

LOL

 

[aevelasquez]

Except it will look soft, as every LCD monitor always has done when run at a percentage of native resolution. At 1920x1200 it is using 4 physical pixels to draw every 3 virtual pixels, and that kind of scaling can't be done perfectly. Anyone thinking this is a substitute for a crisp 1920x1200 native resolution is going to be pretty disappointed. I would not even consider this screen unless you are happy with an effective 1440x900 albeit very nice and very sharp display.

----------


You obviously don't understand how retina works. It uses 4 times as many pixels, i.e. 2x in each direction, to display the same size content on the screen. Meaning that the physical size of text or pictures on the retina screen is exactly the same as it would be on a 1440x900 normal screen, just much sharper. So it will be just like using a 1440x900 15" laptop.

The Retina Display in the new macbooks allows you to alter the resolution scaling, currently up to 1920 x 1200 (and thats just until someone figures out how to zero-scale to 2880 x 1800), allowing for the same level of sharpness a larger image would have on a conventional screen in a smaller version of that image, the smaller image is just as crisp but doesn't forgo such a significant portion of screen real estate.

 

[steve-p]

The Retina Display in the new macbooks allows you to alter the resolution scaling, currently up to 1920 x 1200 (and thats just until someone figures out how to zero-scale to 2880 x 1800), allowing for the same level of sharpness a larger image would have on a conventional screen in a smaller version of that image, the smaller image is just as crisp but doesn't forgo such a significant portion of screen real estate.

You have obviously never used any LCD screen at a non-native resolution. It is impossible to scale anything other than factors of 2 without rounding issues causing sharpness to be affected. That's the reason why every Apple retina display so far is exactly double the resolution of its non-retina predecessor.

 

[aevelasquez]

You have obviously never used any LCD screen at a non-native resolution. It is impossible to scale anything other than factors of 2 without rounding issues causing sharpness to be affected. That's the reason why every Apple retina display so far is exactly double the resolution of its non-retina predecessor.

Ah, I gotcha. My mistake. Redacted.

 

[tom vilsack]

Is perfect if your rich...till then ill stick to my ibook G4 and 2007 macbook...

 

[swingerofbirch]

Lol, No subwoofer. If ur looking for an audiophile experience, id suggest investing in a soundsystem. Subwoofer on a Laptop? Lol. No.

Subwoofers in a laptop made me lol.

Same here.

You are either totally naive or completely off your trolley!

Are you stupid? Subwoofer on a laptop?


Read the specs. The resolution is 2880 by 1800.

Nice trolling.

7. Still only Stereo speakers. No subwoofer on the retina model either!

Are you kidding me? Why don't you say that it doesn't have a 24 inch display?

7. This is a big LOL. I am not expecting subwoofer for laptops at any level of price. Non-distorted sound at high volume is good enough.

Just:

LOL

My PowerBook G4 12" 867 mhz came with a built in subwoofer. I don't know all of the models that have had them, but that model did, and so does my 2010 13" MacBook Pro. I think you all must be under the impression that notebook subwoofers are much larger than they actually are. In a 15" notebook , even at .71 inches, it would be possible to include. The PowerBook 12" was really tightly packed. One way to make this forum better is to ask the question "Is it true?" before posting.

 

[MathiasVH]

My PowerBook G4 12" 867 mhz came with a built in subwoofer. I don't know all of the models that have had them, but that model did, and so does my 2010 13" MacBook Pro. I think you all must be under the impression that notebook subwoofers are much larger than they actually are. In a 15" notebook , even at .71 inches, it would be possible to include. The PowerBook 12" was really tightly packed. One way to make this forum better is to ask the question "Is it true?" before posting.

I wasn't addressing the subwoofer-part, but his whole complaint. You are misquoting me while arguing for how you should think twice before posting?

That's another LOL right there.

 

[Kaiser Phoenix]

Another advantage of the rMBP is that it now has hardly any moving parts inside, reliability should have increased imo.

 

[that1guyy]

you forgot some items off for list:

No Flux Capacitor for Time Travel
The Ram doesn't regenerate into 32GB RAM in 20 years time
No Blu Ray
No Floppy Drive
You have to type yourself it doesn't type by it's self.
No Microwave for pot noodle

I don't appreciate your moronic comments. All my concerns are legitimate and instead of all you people quoting my original post, look at my second post which clears up some things. Grow some brains.

----------

Just:

LOL

What's so funny. If what I wrote is too complex for you to understand, don't comment useless crap.

----------

Are you kidding me?

1. They said the same thing about the MBA and we all know where that ended up.
2. What in the fat dick do you need more than 8 or 16 GB of RAM for...?
3. If the quality of sound input/output is that important to you, then you'll realize that when it actually matters, you'll need external accessories for that anyway.
4. Two USB Ports is Plenty. If you don't agree, get a USB Hub.
5. Really, James Cameron? Are you going to record Avatar 2 with the FRONT-FACING WEBCAM on the MacBook Pro? What in the black do you need a 1080p web-cam for? The FaceTime HD 720P camera is more than able enough for its intended purpose. Despite all these other computer manufacturers giving their webcams an HD nomenclature, they use it more in terms of relativity to previous iterations of webcams than actual video quality capability. Most issues with web-cam video quality are because of bandwidth anyway.
6. If you didn't notice, they poured about 1100 dollars of upgraded, still new and expensive, hardware into this new line. For them to raise the price a mere 600 for the HIGH END MBPR is far beyond reasonable.
7. What the hell do you think this is HP + Beats? I'll repeat what I said in #3: If the quality of sound input/output is that important to you, then you'll realize that when it actually matters, you'll need external accessories for that anyway.
8. The Native Resolution is 2880 x 1800, where are you getting your facts from?

You are ridiculous. You take the whole "First World Problems" thing to a whole new level...the engineering, mechanical, and hardware GOLD that apple poured into this new line of MacBooks goes far beyond anything thats available from anyone else today. Yes, that includes your beloved HP with Beats Audio and "Subwoofer." Your expectations were completely unrealistic, and there was a greater chance of Anne Frank and Hitler coming back from the dead and slowdancing on that stage than there was of any of these ridiculous wishes you had for whatever behemoth of a computer you wanted to see at WWDC come true.

I don't know why you are personally attacking me. All I stated were things considered flaws. Why do you people keep QUOTING THE FIRST POST. Look at my second post!!! That clears up things. I explain the subwoofer thing and other things on my list but all you geniuses conveniently forget about that other post. Get a friggin clue.

My topic was not meant to be one about me trolling or hating on the update. If you managed to read the original post I said I love the new computers but these things were things I considered flaws. I even took back some of them(Again: READ SECOND POST). I'm not saying that the laptop "sucks" or whatever you're implying.

WTF are you talking about? I don't own HP Beats audio. Stop talking about things you don't understand. Moron.They're not ridiculous wishes. I was just stating things not bashing.

I did not know that the macrumors community had so many mentally challenged raging kids.

 

[jburns]

Nothing you said qualifies as a "big
Who needs a 1080P webcam over a 720P one? The camera isn't the limiting factor in video chat quality, it's bandwidth and compression.

Not to mention that a vast majority of us look a hell of a lot better in SD than HD.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The biggest problem for me is the SSD and RAM. I can't believe it's not upgradable, especially because SSD is so expensive now. Why would I want only 256 GB in a laptop? I'll be using it for the next 4+ years. Do I want to spend $400 extra to get 512 GB (which, by the way, is still too small)? No way

I use cloud storage. I have 3 TB Network Attached Storage on my wifi. I work on huge computer clusters and have access to virtually unlimited remote storage. I am fully aware that there are other storage options, but it doesn't change the fact that I need a lot of *local* storage

Why do you need a lot of local storage? Are you even sure a notebook is right for you then?

BTW the SSD is upgradable.

 

[jburns]

Just wondering how compressed hell is?

All in good time my son.

 

[Romeo604]

I believe the reason is to dongle all your input devices through your thunderbolt peripherals so there is no clutter and for better transfer rates.

You would simply hook up one thunderbolt device straight to the laptop and the rest of your peripherals would dongle through the original device. You can connect hard drives or monitors through dongling.

Just thought I'd make a thread about the things I specifically didn't like about this redesign. Overall I am loving it though.

I both love and am a little disappointed at the same time.

1. No user upgradeable storage
2. Ditto with RAM. This hurts man.
3. small thing but ONLY ONE HEADPHONE INPUT. what happened to the headphone + microphone jacks like on the last one? I don't want to buy adapters and dongles
4. only two usb ports? Pathetic
5. Also, only 720p camera? Come on this 2012. they probably will update to 1080p in the spec bump next year.
6. $2800 for the high end 15 inch?!!? WTF. I thought the predictions of $3000 were laughable but I guess not.
7. Still only Stereo speakers. No subwoofer on the retina model either!
8. 1440 x 900 base resolution! WTF I need that extra screen space I get with 1650 x 1050!

Feel free to add anything else.

I've been waiting for buying this for several months now but a few things make me hesitant.

The main one is the price. I was willing to spend about $2300- $2400 for a BTO decently upgraded MBP. But this very high starting price is obscene and with the soldered RAM, it's even more expensive(I need 16GB).

The second main one is the screen resolution. Retina's great but the screen space is just too small to do serious work. I was hoping for at least 1080p for base resolution.

There are other things as mentioned in the first list, but these two I just mentioned might be big deal-breakers. I would use this machine for hd video editing and compositing work. I also plan on trying some 3d modeling with it.

Do you guys think it's worth it, even with the big drawbacks?

lol, the two USB ports were seriously pitiful. I mean really? You're getting rid of ODD, firewire, and Ethernet, the least you can do is provide us with two more USB's. And it's not like they were technologically impaired or they had no room either.

 

[fs454]

Except it will look soft, as every LCD monitor always has done when run at a percentage of native resolution. At 1920x1200 it is using 4 physical pixels to draw every 3 virtual pixels, and that kind of scaling can't be done perfectly. Anyone thinking this is a substitute for a crisp 1920x1200 native resolution is going to be pretty disappointed. I would not even consider this screen unless you are happy with an effective 1440x900 albeit very nice and very sharp display.

----------


You obviously don't understand how retina works. It uses 4 times as many pixels, i.e. 2x in each direction, to display the same size content on the screen. Meaning that the physical size of text or pictures on the retina screen is exactly the same as it would be on a 1440x900 normal screen, just much sharper. So it will be just like using a 1440x900 15" laptop.

It will NOT look soft when set to the more real-estate settings. It's not "scaling" the same way you are describing here, like an iOS device would. The distinction that everything must take up a certain amount of pixels is irrelevant on a device that isn't 100% full screen all the time like, say, an iPad or iPhone.

With OS X, we now have really, really high resolution assets that make up the interface. By default, they are scaled to a usable space similar to the space we had at 1440x900.

Now, shrinking the UI further will not make it look soft, it'll still look very high resolution. You're still running at 2880x1800 no matter what, so all pixels are 1-to-1 mapped, you're just displaying a high resolution asset at a smaller size on a 1-1 mapped display.

It'll be just as sharp.

 

[ReanimationN]

No Kensington Lock Slot. Without that, I can't buy it, simple as that.

 

[Marrakas]

Except it will look soft, as every LCD monitor always has done when run at a percentage of native resolution. At 1920x1200 it is using 4 physical pixels to draw every 3 virtual pixels, and that kind of scaling can't be done perfectly. Anyone thinking this is a substitute for a crisp 1920x1200 native resolution is going to be pretty disappointed. I would not even consider this screen unless you are happy with an effective 1440x900 albeit very nice and very sharp display.

----------


You obviously don't understand how retina works. It uses 4 times as many pixels, i.e. 2x in each direction, to display the same size content on the screen. Meaning that the physical size of text or pictures on the retina screen is exactly the same as it would be on a 1440x900 normal screen, just much sharper. So it will be just like using a 1440x900 15" laptop.

According to anandtech the uneven scaling resolutions still look more crisp than 1440x900 does on the old macbooks.

Also, even though it uses 4x the pixels and gives you the estate of a 1440x900, it is still a 2880x1800 screen, meaning you can up the resolution to that if you feel like it.

 

[SuprUsrStan]

Subwoofers in a laptop made me lol.

Why? The Macbook Pro 15 and 17 both had subwoofers.

Just thought I'd make a thread about the things I specifically didn't like about this redesign. Overall I am loving it though.

I both love and am a little disappointed at the same time.

1. No user upgradeable storage
2. Ditto with RAM. This hurts man.
3. small thing but ONLY ONE HEADPHONE INPUT. what happened to the headphone + microphone jacks like on the last one? I don't want to buy adapters and dongles
4. only two usb ports? Pathetic
5. Also, only 720p camera? Come on this 2012. they probably will update to 1080p in the spec bump next year.
6. $2800 for the high end 15 inch?!!? WTF. I thought the predictions of $3000 were laughable but I guess not.
7. Still only Stereo speakers. No subwoofer on the retina model either!
8. 1440 x 900 base resolution! WTF I need that extra screen space I get with 1650 x 1050!

1. It IS upgradable but honestly you're not going to if you don't pay it up front initially. The 512gb version is essentially a Samsung 830 512 controller which is like $600 standalone. In a couple years...just buy a new one and sell the old.
2. True, but again, buy the 16gb if you need it NOW. Otherwise just forget it. You don't buy laptops for the sake of keeping them around for 4+ years.
3. meh.
4. The air has 1. The old mbp15 had 2. At least you we get 2 TB ports in addition to the 2 usb 3.0 ports you're getting. That's actually an upgrade.
5. Yeah, sure 1080p would be a plus. Though imagine them fitting one of those suckers into the lid. Oh well.
6. 2800 is steep. With education its 2600. + 100 dollar gift card that you can probably sell for like 95$ on ebay. Still I'd like to see a 512gb version down to $2400 :/
7. Yeah, we lost the subwoofer. Although, they claim the stereo speakers are better than that of the older mbp15. We shall see.
8. You're either ignorant or just dumb. Its 2880x1800. With HiDpi it's 1440x900. There is scaling that can scale the desktop to 3360x2100 and then shrink it down to 1650x1050. It'll look better than native 1650x1050 but worse than the native hidpi 1440x900. Up to you. I'll miss my 1680x1050. The option is available.


Honestly. Quit your bitching and either buy it or don't. I know I am.


EDIT:

No Kensington Lock Slot. Without that, I can't buy it, simple as that.

****. I didn't realize that.

 

[Pentad]

Just thought I'd make a thread about the things I specifically didn't like about this redesign. Overall I am loving it though.

I both love and am a little disappointed at the same time.

That1Guy, I read your list, I agree, don't bother to expect rational responses here. I too posted a similar thread and even asked people to put down the Kool-Aid before responding, but it was all fanboy rhetoric. I never realized how many sheep Apple has here...

I think your points are valid and ones that bother me the most:

1. Non-upgradeable parts. This is really shocking and plays to the Apple Walled Garden comments by Apple-Haters. Apple is notoriously famous for charging outrageous sums for RAM and HD which doesn't bode well for their customers.

Yesterday was no exception. As I pointed out in another thread, Apple wants $900 for a 512 GB SSD while I can get a Samsung 830 512 GB SSD for a bit over $500 with NewEgg's current sale. $700 regular so Apple is charging $200 more for a crappier SSD.

Also, these parts will come down in price as time goes by. Look at the price of SSDs or Memory from a year ago. Apple has a history of not lowering prices on such items and I do not believe it will come down.

Your MBP can no longer grow with you as a user. Perhaps you start out thinking 8 GB is fine but wish to move to 16 GB in the future. Sorry...

That is pretty greedy if you ask me.


2. The Retina Display looks great but screen real estate is also important. I HATED 1440 x 900 thus I'm on an HR 15". If I bump the Retina display to 1680 x 1050 I loose screen quality. I wonder how much? I have seen pictures but prefer to see it in person.


3. I think it is pretty clear that Apple is going to move to this lock-out type eco-system and that is disappointing.



4. Lastly, price. Everybody has been howling how cheap the RMBPs are but I don't think they have looked at the over-all cost:

The RMBP drops the ODD, Wired Ethernet, FW800, and HR display (I'm talking native resolution here). Well, these are features that I use. Granted, I don't use the ODD all the time, but I can't afford to drop it either so that means I'm going to purchase it.

So from my perspective the RMBP will need:
-1 FW to TB Cable
-1 E to TB Cable (People will howl that it has wireless but it isn't even 802.11 AC! Ack!)
-ODD

So you start adding that on top of the RMBP and I'm not sure that is a good deal...


-P

 

[Marrakas]

You can't be serious thinking that retina is not a high res display just because it simulates the real estate of a 1440x900?

It is a 2880x1800 display, no matter how you look at it, end of discussion.