'Flexgate': 2016 and Newer MacBook Pro Users Report Display Issues Due to Fragile Flex Cables

[Wags]

...

Yea. That kinda my take. Seems like they dont really give two ***** about macs.
But thats why im eyeing this years mac pro/imac/macbook pro releases with a combination of excitement and dread.
This really is the year we find out for real if they’re going to continue to screw up the mac line or breath serious new life into it.[/QUOTE]
After the release of the new mba it seems Apple prefers to design with maximum profit in mind and have it just good enough that will sell at premium. As with this thread, seems Apple is not caring much about longevity of their hardware other than covering their warranty period and consumers stuck with high repair cost or disposable laptop.

 

[BigBoy2018]

You just can't buy a MacBook anymore. Unless it's the 2015 model.

I’ve been saying that very thing for three years straght now.

 

[magicmarven]

This is a design decision and not related to price.

Design decision, agreed. No way with Apple's oversight and experience that this wasn't done intentionally. Classic built-in obsolescence. And I resent the fact that honest people who spend a fortune on these devices are made to feel they've done something to cause it (by opening it wrong, or too much?) and are made to pay to replace it with a same unit that will eventually break again.

 

[x86fanboy]

In this case I believe it to be true.
People opening and closing the lid too often and with too much force will eventually cause the problem. It's nothing to do with Apple cutting corners, it is people using the product improperly.

My near 5 year old macbook air, opened and closed dozens of times a day, every day, still has perfectly functional hinges with totally intact flex cables, even with the bottom panel only partially held on for quick drive swapping and airgaping.
It's been the most rugged laptop I've ever owned, usually the hinges die out after a year or two on most of my laptops, but on the macbook they've just lost a bit of their resistance.
To say that using too much force to open the screen will cause issues is ridiculous. You lift the screen up with one finger, while the weight of the base provides something to open against.
People aren't slamming these open, cracking against the hinges. If they where, you'd see damage to the hinge itself, not the flex cable.
Perhaps apple has used a thinner flex with less copper on the traces to squeeze it through a tighter space? Perhaps they thought it'd work because their limited testing didn't show issues?
But they've made a design decision, and despite what people think, apple doesn't have a magical way of making sure every decision they ever make is flawless.
Hardly a year goes by without a new design flaw, product recall, or class action lawsuit against them. Deny it for the first three months, say it's the users fault, but my bottom-of-the-line five year old macbook air with tens of thousands of lid cycles on it doesn't have this problem, and I assure you, I've opened it more "Roughly" than anyone who owns the new macbook.

 

[magicmarven]

edited

 

[daithimckeown]

so whats the bottom line here? Is this going to just be ignored by apple. Will there be a class action law suit? or are we all just screwed?

 

[mi7chy]

so whats the bottom line here? Is this going to just be ignored by apple. Will there be a class action law suit? or are we all just screwed?

From the evidence so far it's clearly a design defect.

Apple's MO is to sweep it under the rug for as long as possible hoping everyone will pay the $600 or upgrade and forget about it, otherwise, if the pressure mounts from class action they'll settle at the last minute and enact an extended warranty program but you have to keep an eye on it so you don't miss out on the coverage period.

 

[vahdyx]

Not sure how I feel about this. Is it really something Apple needs to “give back”. I had a Dell back in early 2000s that broke and the tech said “Yeah this is a common issue with this model” and proceeded to charge me $400 for a hinge.

Fast forward to HP, Dell, and many other companies out there. They all have some design issue that affects the end user on a massive scale.

Not once do we all yell, “fix it”

Granted I understand Apples place in the market and how they sell more of a single product than most, so the sting is bigger but is it something we can demand... who am I kidding of course it is.

Nevermind

 

[BigBoy2018]

Not sure how I feel about this. Is it really something Apple needs to “give back”. I had a Dell back in early 2000s that broke and the tech said “Yeah this is a common issue with this model” and proceeded to charge me $400 for a hinge.

Fast forward to HP, Dell, and many other companies out there. They all have some design issue that affects the end user on a massive scale.

Not once do we all yell, “fix it”

Granted I understand Apples place in the market and how they sell more of a single product than most, so the sting is bigger but is it something we can demand... who am I kidding of course it is.

Nevermind

Let me get this straight: You’re saying because a couple models from other vendors had this issue back almost two decades ago, it’s excusable for Apple to have them now!?!?!

Those were in the early days of laptops dingus. In the many years since then, engineers (especiallly the top notch ones at Apple) has presumably figured out how to avoid those obvious problems of early laptops designs.
So to suggest Apple somehow is excused from having this problem (a problem they haven’t had with their own laptops for decades) because it was common in the the 1990’s ... well that’s just daft.

SERIOUSLY, smh here. I’m beside myself.

 

[vahdyx]

Those were in the early days of laptops dingus. In the many years since then, engineers (especiallly the top notch ones at Apple) has presumably figured out how to avoid those obvious problems of early laptops designs.
So to suggest Apple somehow is excused from having this problem (a problem they haven’t had for decades) because it was common in the the 1990’s ... well that’s just daft.

I said, “fast forward” which was supposed to imply that it’s a thing today. Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. It still is a thing today, not just yesteryear!

Many companies including companies outside computer companies have massive design issues. Whirlpool recently had an issue with their “Gold Series” dishwasher! Dell had an issue with their batteries prematurely died in 2017 and didn’t create a “repair program” and HP had dying trackpads in their Probooks in 2015.

Additionally, I know correlation doesn’t mean causation, let’s hope you do too.

Lastly I work for a warranty company which is used by many companies to handle logistics of warranty claims. So I probably see more warranty items than you do from a single article on the web.

All I was saying is I don’t think Apple should have to replace or make it easier for you the consumer to get something replaced for free. If you want those protections then buy them like the rest of the world.

 

[sakurarain]

i am considering to sell my new MBP and purchase a mini hopefully it is a good machine).

 

[peterpatent]

Many companies including companies outside computer companies have massive design issues. Whirlpool recently had an issue with their “Gold Series” dishwasher! Dell had an issue with their batteries prematurely died in 2017 and didn’t create a “repair program” and HP had dying trackpads in their Probooks in 2015.

Lastly I work for a warranty company which is used by many companies to handle logistics of warranty claims. So I probably see more warranty items than you do from a single article on the web.

All I was saying is I don’t think Apple should have to replace or make it easier for you the consumer to get something replaced for free. If you want those protections then buy them like the rest of the world.

So you want customers to pay for design failures of products where the manufacturers are responsible? That would be an incentive for manufacturers to design and sell faulty products or at least not to solve issues like this one. We all (customers, voters, people) want and should require products with long lifecycles which are environment friendly in short and long term. Especially from top manufacturers like Apple which sell items at extra high prices.
There is a good reason why e.g. the EU has a 2-year-warranty law on every products sold within the EU (other regions have similar laws for good reasons too). And this 2-year-warranty law is made especially for problems like this one.
Products like the MacBook Pro with prices from 2.000 to 5000 $ or € and more should at least not have a basic design failure that makes them break by design within 1 to 3 years of normal use.
I don´t even see a reason why there shouldn´t be something like a 5 year warranty on products like that regarding failures by design by default. Apple is responsible in this case, not the customer.

Mentioning other companies "massive design issues" doesn´t get us anywhere in this discussion.
It only shows that customers often don´t have the power to claim there rights and that manufacturers don´t give a f***.

I think it´s obvious to everybody but you why especially you are interested in customers paying for an extra warranty and it´s that you are obviously personally profiting from faulty products and people paying for extra warranties:

"Lastly I work for a warranty company which is used by many companies to handle logistics of warranty claims."

 

[vahdyx]

So you want customers to pay for design failures of products where the manufacturer ist responsible? That would be an incentive for manufacturers to design and sell faulty products or at least not to solve issues like this one. We all (customers, voters, people) want and should require products with long lifecycles which are environment friendly in short and long term. Especially from top manufacturers like Apple which sell items at extra high prices.
There is a reason why e.g. the EU has a 2-year-warranty law on every products sold within the EU. And this 2-year-warranty law especially is made for problems like this one.
Products like the MacBook Pro with prices from 2.000 to 5000 $ or € and more should at least not have a basic design problem that makes them break by design after 1 to 3 years of normal use. In my opinion at that price point 2 years isn´t enough at all. Apple is responsible, not the customer.

I think it´s obvious to everybody but you why especially you are interested in customers paying for an extra warranty and it´s that you are obviously personally profiting from faulty products and people paying for extra warranties:

"Lastly I work for a warranty company which is used by many companies to handle logistics of warranty claims."

All I’m saying is that if something fails outside of their warranty is it really up to the manufacturer to replace. You agreed to those terms when you bought it.

If you don’t like it don’t buy it.

A company offered you protection with in that warranty period. If it’s a 2016 MacBook Pro even in the EU it’s outside the warranty.

Your logic is that you bought something it will last forever and if it doesn’t it’s the companies fault and they need to fix it. When you buy a house is it the original companies responsibility to fix it? If you buy a car and 6 years down the road (assuming a 5 year warranty) the transmission has a catastrophic failure is it the auto manufacturer to replace it?

I get that you want things to last forever but they don’t. Sometimes things are poorly designed. I for one am not experiencing the issue with my 2016 MBP and use it daily. I also have the peace of mind that I have Apple Care and should something go wrong after Apple Care well thanks Apple for the 3-4 years of worry free work now I have to pay $600 to get a new monitor.

If you can’t afford that then buy a $600 laptop.

Edit

To address some other things in your post

1) I don’t profit off of my work. It’s not my company. I can leave whenever the hell I want to. I exchange IT services for a salary hardly a profit. That salary goes to things like warranty purchases, mortgage, repairing my house, maintaining my car, and food, etc.

2) I agree companies should have longer warranties. I agree that customers shouldn’t pay for faulty products. But that’s not the world we live in. We the consumer don’t get consumer protections like we deserve so do something about it.

3) I also believe that if you are able to buy an expensive product you should also be able to pay for a warranty to protect it longer than the manufacturer is offering should you so choose.

4) I believe that if you’re wanting the world to change then change it. If you want someone else to do it then bitch in forums.

 

[peterpatent]

All I’m saying is that if something fails outside of their warranty is it really up to the manufacturer to replace. You agreed to those terms when you bought it.

If you don’t like it don’t buy it.

A company offered you protection with in that warranty period. If it’s a 2016 MacBook Pro even in the EU it’s outside the warranty.

Your logic is that you bought something it will last forever and if it doesn’t it’s the companies fault and they need to fix it. When you buy a house is it the original companies responsibility to fix it? If you buy a car and 6 years down the road (assuming a 5 year warranty) the transmission has a catastrophic failure is it the auto manufacturer to replace it?

I get that you want things to last forever but they don’t. Sometimes things are poorly designed. I for one am not experiencing the issue with my 2016 MBP and use it daily. I also have the peace of mind that I have Apple Care and should something go wrong after Apple Care well thanks Apple for the 3-4 years of worry free work now I have to pay $600 to get a new monitor.

If you can’t afford that then buy a $600 laptop.

No, that´s not my logic. Your argumentation is very dishonest.

If it´s out of warranty or not depends on the purchasing date and the region where you bought it.

You are coming up with a random defect on a car which tells us nothing about it´s cause.
Is it due to a design failure, is ist due to normal/abnormal wear? Does this happen to a large proportion of this very model of cars?
Do you recognise that there are several recall actions regarding dozens of car models every year in the hole world for good reasons? Regardless if the issues are happening within the warranty or not. There are good reasons for that and there are good reasons why products like the MacBook Pro which costs up to $5000 and more and which are complex machines shouldn´t have basic design failures. It is not a bluetooth box für 50 bucks which you can easily replace and the flexgate is not a random defect at all. It is a basic defect that is a failure by design which potentially results in a useless notebook within 1, 2 or 3 years of normal use. It even happens when the MacBook Pro is only slightly used at home.

So please, if you want to talk about this topic at least don´t be dishonest like that.

All I was saying is I don’t think Apple should have to replace or make it easier for you the consumer to get something replaced for free. If you want those protections then buy them like the rest of the world.

Edit

...

2) I agree companies should have longer warranties. I agree that customers shouldn’t pay for faulty products. But that’s not the world we live in. We the consumer don’t get consumer protections like we deserve so do something about it.

I guess our discussion ends here.

 

[vahdyx]

No, it absolutely is not my logic and your argumentation is dishonest in many ways.
I did not accept basic design failures by buying the product and as i mentioned i do think that the 2-year-limited-warranty in the EU (which Apple agreed on by selling the item) isn´t enough regarding basic failures by design for products like this. It is okay for a 50$ bluetooth box but not for machines like a MacBook Pro or a car (regarding obvious failures by design and not normal wear).
You are coming up with a single transmission failure out of context which tells us nothing about it´s cause.
Is it due to abnormal use, is it a failure by design, is it normal wear, does this happen to a large proportion of sold cars of this model within 1 to 3 years? Have you ever heard of one of the dozens recall programs which car manufacturers around the world had to face? Some of them started like 3 to 5 years after the manufacturer first sold the cars. Don´t you think that there where good reasons for that? Worldwide, not only in the EU.
Anyway you did not get the point that i am exclusively talking about obvious and massive failures by design which i claim the flexgate to be. Not random or small defects which might happen here and there or failure in consequence of abnormal use or wear parts of cars. Don´t be dishonest.

For the transmission “analogy” let’s take it into context not isolate it from the entire discussion. Of course I meant normal wear and tear. Is that not what we’re discussing with the MacBook? It’s out of warranty is it not? Is the Mac out of warranty as well? If so, then who’s responsible?

Recalls are usually safety related due to a vehicle being a product of safety. Not because a part failed. Recalls are usually issued (at least in the states) by the NHTSA which deems a part dangerous for normal operation.

Rarely do you see recalls on radios, or speakers, or leather on seats.

And yes you agreed to Apples terms and conditions when you bought it. They are under no obligation legally to fix your monitor if it’s out of warranty. Wether they should or shouldn’t is opinion. We can go back and forth all day long but if Apple chooses not to then they don’t have too. Sucks to be you and guess you will think twice before buying another Mac. If not then well it is what it is.

I’m not gonna go back and fourth on my opinion. Sorry you don’t like it but buying a product and expecting it and demanding to be replaced after warranty is stupid, hoping and pleading for the company to, sure, if they want to and would consider it worth it rather than the bad press sure whatever. It’s their decision.

Sorry you were dealt a bad hand. If mine fails after warranty, then I guess I’ll be paying $600. Or selling it for someone else too. Or third option, getting a free monitor replaced if they do it. No matter what happens I’m okay with the result. Why?!? Well I guess I’m a happy fellow.

 

[BigBoy2018]

For the transmission “analogy” let’s take it into context not isolate it from the entire discussion. Of course I meant normal wear and tear. Is that not what we’re discussing with the MacBook? It’s out of warranty is it not? Is the Mac out of warranty as well? If so, then who’s responsible?

Recalls are usually safety related due to a vehicle being a product of safety. Not because a part failed. Recalls are usually issued (at least in the states) by the NHTSA which deems a part dangerous for normal operation.

Rarely do you see recalls on radios, or speakers, or leather on seats.

And yes you agreed to Apples terms and conditions when you bought it. They are under no obligation legally to fix your monitor if it’s out of warranty. Wether they should or shouldn’t is opinion. We can go back and forth all day long but if Apple chooses not to then they don’t have too. Sucks to be you and guess you will think twice before buying another Mac. If not then well it is what it is.

I’m not gonna go back and fourth on my opinion. Sorry you don’t like it but buying a product and expecting it and demanding to be replaced after warranty is stupid, hoping and pleading for the company to, sure, if they want to and would consider it worth it rather than the bad press sure whatever. It’s their decision.

Sorry you were dealt a bad hand. If mine fails after warranty, then I guess I’ll be paying $600. Or selling it for someone else too. Or third option, getting a free monitor replaced if they do it. No matter what happens I’m okay with the result. Why?!? Well I guess I’m a happy fellow.

Hopeless.

Simply hopeless.

 

[peterpatent]

For the transmission “analogy” let’s take it into context not isolate it from the entire discussion. Of course I meant normal wear and tear. Is that not what we’re discussing with the MacBook? It’s out of warranty is it not? Is the Mac out of warranty as well? If so, then who’s responsible?

Recalls are usually safety related due to a vehicle being a product of safety. Not because a part failed. Recalls are usually issued (at least in the states) by the NHTSA which deems a part dangerous for normal operation.

Rarely do you see recalls on radios, or speakers, or leather on seats.

And yes you agreed to Apples terms and conditions when you bought it. They are under no obligation legally to fix your monitor if it’s out of warranty. Wether they should or shouldn’t is opinion. We can go back and forth all day long but if Apple chooses not to then they don’t have too. Sucks to be you and guess you will think twice before buying another Mac. If not then well it is what it is.

I’m not gonna go back and fourth on my opinion. Sorry you don’t like it but buying a product and expecting it and demanding to be replaced after warranty is stupid, hoping and pleading for the company to, sure, if they want to and would consider it worth it rather than the bad press sure whatever. It’s their decision.

Sorry you were dealt a bad hand. If mine fails after warranty, then I guess I’ll be paying $600. Or selling it for someone else too. Or third option, getting a free monitor replaced if they do it. No matter what happens I’m okay with the result. Why?!? Well I guess I’m a happy fellow.

We are talking about a basic design failure which results in an absolutely useless machine after one, two or maybe three or four years of normal use. We don´t know yet if all MacBook Pros 2016 will be affected, but it looks very much like it if you ask me.
Responsibility does not end with the warranty (which can be 1 year or 5 years depending on the region). I thought you got that at the car recall examples which are often not related to the warranty.
Think of the VW scandal or the recall of my car which i am using currently (BMW). It had a recall action from the manufacturer (not ordered by the state) and not for safety reasons at all. It was because of a faulty item (bearing) in the newly designed 3-cylinder engine. This faulty item potentially yields in a defect of the hole motor unit. It happened to a large proportion of motors of this car model within a short period of time and BMW decided to make a recall on all models where the newly designed 3-cylinder engine is used. Because you mention leather on seats. BMW replaced my "sensatec" seats for free because of bad quality. It´s a leather like structure made out of plastic and a lot of carseats had cracks in a relatively short period of time (relative to the lifecycle) because of that bad quality. BMW replaced them for free or at least handed out the materials for free because they felt – and were – responsible. Back then my car was 7 or 8 years old and had 60.000 KM on the clock.
That´s exactly what has do happen with the MacBook Pro/Air line up. Apple screwed up and has to come up with a cost free or efficient solution for customers affected by this issue. That´s it.
And that´s what happened to the Apple keyboard problem as well. My keyboard happened to stop working after 1 year and 9 days while i had several smaller problems with it within the first year and apple wanted to charge me 700€ or something like that for replacing it, because back than they said that this was not a design failure. 6 month later they started a free repair program and replaced it for free, which took them 3 attempts btw.
Now, because of the poor design choices apple made, they have to replace the hole display for free too. That´s it.
It´s a failure by design, responsible is the designer.

 

[vahdyx]

We are talking about a basic design failure which results in an absolutely useless machine after one, two or maybe three or four years of normal use. We don´t know yet if all MacBook Pros 2016 will be affected, but it looks very much like it if you ask me.
Responsibility does not end with the warranty (which can be 1 year or 5 years depending on the region). I thought you got that at the car recall examples which are often not related to the warranty.
Think of the VW scandal or the recall of my car which i am using currently (BMW). It had a recall action from the manufacturer (not ordered by the state) and not for safety reasons at all. It was because of a faulty item (bearing) in the newly designed 3-cylinder engine. This faulty item potentially yields in a defect of the hole motor unit. It happened to a large proportion of motors of this car model within a short period of time and BMW decided to make a recall on all models where the newly designed 3-cylinder engine is used. Because you mention leather on seats. BMW replaced my "sensatec" seats for free because of bad quality. It´s a leather like structure made out of plastic and a lot of carseats had cracks in a relatively short period of time (relative to the lifecycle) because of that bad quality. BMW replaced them for free or at least handed out the materials for free because they felt – and were – responsible. Back then my car was 7 or 8 years old and had 60.000 KM on the clock.
That´s exactly what has do happen with the MacBook Pro/Air line up. Apple screwed up and has to come up with a cost free or efficient solution for customers affected by this issue. That´s it.
And that´s what happened to the Apple keyboard problem as well. My keyboard happened to stop working after 1 year and 9 days while i had several smaller problems with it within the first year and apple wanted to charge me 700€ or something like that for replacing it, because back than they said that this was not a design failure. 6 month later they started a free repair program and replaced it for free, which took them 3 attempts btw.
Now, because of the poor design choices apple made, they have to replace the hole display for free too. That´s it.
It´s a failure by design, responsible is the designer.

It’s cool that we’re throwing in all these comparisons but remember correlation doesn’t equal causation.

So all I’m gonna say is, it’s up to Apple if they want to honor this or not. They don’t have to, just like you don’t have to reply to my post. Will you, oh I’m sure you will. But it is what it is right.

 

[BigBoy2018]

It’s cool that we’re throwing in all these comparisons but remember correlation doesn’t equal causation.

So all I’m gonna say is, it’s up to Apple if they want to honor this or not. They don’t have to, just like you don’t have to reply to my post. Will you, oh I’m sure you will. But it is what it is right.

Peterpatent made very apt and correct comparisons. The fact that you’re still here flailing away is testament to how some people on forums like this can’t stop even when they’re dead wrong.
Enjoy making a living off your warranty company, sir.

 

[x86fanboy]

From the evidence so far it's clearly a design defect.

Apple's MO is to sweep it under the rug for as long as possible hoping everyone will pay the $600 or upgrade and forget about it, otherwise, if the pressure mounts from class action they'll settle at the last minute and enact an extended warranty program but you have to keep an eye on it so you don't miss out on the coverage period.

Looks like I was wrong, they didn't cheap out on copper and make the flex too thin, they made the damn thing too short!
How can you do something like this? Did they test it, go "Looks like it's under high tension when you extend the display as far back as our design allows, but it's a strong flex, it will be fine!"?
That's insane. All they had to do was make a slightly longer flex to prevent any chance of this happening, instead, they got lazy.

 

[peterpatent]

It’s cool that we’re throwing in all these comparisons but remember correlation doesn’t equal causation.

So all I’m gonna say is, it’s up to Apple if they want to honor this or not. They don’t have to, just like you don’t have to reply to my post. Will you, oh I’m sure you will. But it is what it is right.

No, that´s false too. It may be up to Apple in some cases and in other cases it may not.
But we don´t know that yet for a lot of cases and that´s what we are actually talking about here.
The issue is gaining attention and it will take some time to see where that story ends (like the butterfly keyboard issue). Apple may be forced to solve this or may not. Maybe Apple is offering a solution to all affected customers before they are forced to do it. It may depend on the region, the warranty laws and the purchasing date and so on. We don´t know that by now!

 

[vahdyx]

Peterpatent made very apt and correct comparisons. The fact that you’re still here flailing away is testament to how some people on forums like this can’t stop even when they’re dead wrong.
Enjoy making a living off your warranty company, sir.

Dead wrong? Hahahaha. You’re a, what did you say, “Dingus”! There’s clearly a lot of grey area in this debate that’s why it’s even debatable. So dead wrong hardly! Dead wrong is something like, “The sky is on the ground”

Let’s look at the facts outside your and my beliefs.

Is the product out of warranty? Yes!

Is a company obligated to fix it? No!

Should they? Up for debate!

Do extended warranties exist? Yes, why?
—Because of companies can make faulty products? Yes!

Is the MBP Screen faulty? Up for debate!
—Is it wide spread? Maybe
—Of the millions sold how many are messed up? Several hundred at most
—Is this affecting longevity? Yes (presumably)

Is it out of warranty? Yes!

Does that require a business to fix an out of warranty product? No!

I repeat, does that require a company to fix an out of warranty product? NO!

It’s not that hard to understand the logic here. If you’re out of warranty then it’s not Apples responsibility. Can they make it theirs. Sure. But they don’t need to.

Morals vs Legalities

And thanks for the kind wishes on my warranty company.

And FYI the company I work for is contracted by the manufacturer. I’m getting the impression that you think my company sells extended warranties. They handle warranty repairs and logistics for the companies. We report when something is out of warranty and bill the manufacturer when it is and if it’s out of warranty then they (the manufacturer) chooses to pay for the customer or make the customer pay. I handle the IT and infrastructure not the products themselves.

 

[vahdyx]

No, that´s false too. It may be up to Apple in some cases and in other cases it may not.
But we don´t know that yet for a lot of cases and that´s what we are actually talking about here.
The issue is gaining attention and it will take some time to see where that story ends (like the butterfly keyboard issue). Apple may be forced to solve this or may not. Maybe Apple is offering a solution to all affected customers before they are forced to do it. It may depend on the region, the warranty laws and the purchasing date and so on. We don´t know that by now!

If Apple is forced to solve this then I will acquiesce! But I highly doubt Apple will be forced. They’ll opt in before that happens.

 

[peterpatent]

If Apple is forced to solve this then I will acquiesce! But I highly doubt Apple will be forced. They’ll opt in before that happens.

You are missing the point of the argumentation again and again! Like you´re doing it on purpose to avoid the confrontation with your own questionable or faulty statements. And i don´t think that anybody cares if you acquiesce.
Your statement was: "So all I’m gonna say is, it’s up to Apple if they want to honor this or not." and that is wrong. At least in a lot of cases.
If someone or something can force Apple to do it, it´s not up to Apple. It is up to Apple only if they are not forced or nobody even tries. Let´s assume Apple opts for a free repair while facing an action lawsuit. Even then it wouldn´t be up to Apple. Apple would probably opt for a free repair before somebody else forces Apple to do it. But your statement would still be wrong. That´s the point.

Btw.: in the EU a lot if not most people are still under legal warranty and Apple (or the seller) still refuses a free repair because they reject the claim that this is a defect by design. The buyer has to prove that. As long as this isn´t done Apple or the seller can refuse it, but that doesn´t mean that the customer does not have the right of a free repair or that Apple are the ones to decide in the first place.

 

[vahdyx]

You are missing the point of the argumentation again and again! Like you´re doing it on purpose to avoid the confrontation with your own questionable or faulty statements. And i don´t think that anybody cares if you acquiesce.
Your statement was: "So all I’m gonna say is, it’s up to Apple if they want to honor this or not." and that is wrong. At least in a lot of cases.
If someone or something can force Apple to do it, it´s not up to Apple. It is up to Apple only if they are not forced or nobody even tries. Let´s assume Apple opts for a free repair while facing an action lawsuit. Even than it wasn´t up to Apple to decide. They decided before somebody else did it for rhem. Your statement is wrong. That´s the point.

Btw.: in the EU a lot if not most people are still under legal warranty and Apple (or the seller) still refuses a free repair because they reject the claim that this is a defect by design. The buyer has to prove that.

That’s fair, but only with one aspect of my position. I concede on that side. You’re right. If someone or something forces albeit lawsuits or petition then it wasn’t their decision.

But my opinion about warranties and businesses didn’t change. Companies do not need to action faulty equipment outside of warranties unless “forced” like you stated.

I also agree with you saying that it’s up to the buyers to make the manufacturer take action. If consumers let companies get away with it then it’s their fault. In this case sounds like the people have spoken and several other cases in history but it also goes the other way. Companies get away with faulty equipment and make consumers pay.