'Flexgate': 2016 and Newer MacBook Pro Users Report Display Issues Due to Fragile Flex Cables

[Steve121178]

This is what the relentless pursuit of "thin" gets you.

Not when it's done right. This is just poor engineering and Apple building their Macs on the cheap yet charging a huge premium for the privilege.

It's just greed basically.

 

[BigBoy2018]

You are missing the point of the argumentation again and again! Like you´re doing it on purpose to avoid the confrontation with your own questionable or faulty statements. And i don´t think that anybody cares if you acquiesce.
Your statement was: "So all I’m gonna say is, it’s up to Apple if they want to honor this or not." and that is wrong. At least in a lot of cases.
If someone or something can force Apple to do it, it´s not up to Apple. It is up to Apple only if they are not forced or nobody even tries. Let´s assume Apple opts for a free repair while facing an action lawsuit. Even then it wouldn´t be up to Apple. Apple would probably opt for a free repair before somebody else forces Apple to do it. But your statement would still be wrong. That´s the point.

Btw.: in the EU a lot if not most people are still under legal warranty and Apple (or the seller) still refuses a free repair because they reject the claim that this is a defect by design. The buyer has to prove that. As long as this isn´t done Apple or the seller can refuse it, but that doesn´t mean that the customer does not have the right of a free repair or that Apple are the ones to decide in the first place.

You’ve made good points, but at this point it’s banging your head against a brick wall.
Dont waste your time 🙂

 

[Premal212]

4) I believe that if you’re wanting the world to change then change it. If you want someone else to do it then bitch in forums.

I like this, I'm using this.

 

[4487549]

Do we know if the 2018 model still uses the exact same materials/design, or have Apple quietly improved it like they did with the keyboard "noise"?

 

[curtvaughan]

why not both?

is the relentless persuit of "thin" bad? I don't think so. I would love to have a laptop that's the thickness of the MacBook, but the power of the highest end gaming desktop. I don't think this desire is foolish at all.

What IS foolish is attempting to do it, when the technology isn't capable of doing it, but pushing forwards with it anyways. This is where the anecdotes of Steve Jobs makes a lot of people wish for a return to days when someone had the power to tell the designers and engineers "Get the **** out of my office and fix it". Tim Cook, while a fantatic "bean counter", doesn't seem to have this power over the company. He doesn't seem to be able to tell the Designers "This isn't working, stop and be reasonable". This is how you wind up with a "pro" laptop, that has such poor thermals that it runs slower than cheaper laptops in it's own product line.

is it possible that future tech might be able to provide those super thin devices at highest end performance? maybe? as we have seen better and more power go into smaller form factors as miniaturization matures. The problem is, until the design spec meats what's actually possible, these types of things are going to keep happening with Apple.

At the same time as above, trying to do things that aren't technologically probable right now, they are also trying to do it at the cheapest possible cost to themselves as possible. cutting costs and corners, in order to maximize the profitability of every single unit sold, instead of ensuring that the units are built to quality standards they were once known for.

it's this combination of cost cutting cheapness, and designing themselves into corners that technology can't provide that has led us here. Laptops and computers that are prone to failure. Further exasperated by price points that should NOT be making these compromises.

you expect these sort of failures in < 5 year old computers from computers that cost 599 (or other dirt cheap windows laptops). Not $2000+ Apple computers.

Absolutely well said! Jobs was a visionary, not perfect and made some errors, but his vision birthed Apple in the late 70s, Apple nearly died in his absence, and was resurrected again upon his return. That is what passion and vision does to motivate a successful company. That is missing from Apple right now. It is motivated by profit and has been bleeding the Jobs era reputation down to the last reserves. So, here we are. I can't solely blame Cook. He just isn't a good captain of the ship, and his "crew" is floundering. But profits are good - so far.

 

[LordVic]

Absolutely well said! Jobs was a visionary, not perfect and made some errors, but his vision birthed Apple in the late 70s, Apple nearly died in his absence, and was resurrected again upon his return. That is what passion and vision does to motivate a successful company. That is missing from Apple right now. It is motivated by profit and has been bleeding the Jobs era reputation down to the last reserves. So, here we are. I can't solely blame Cook. He just isn't a good captain of the ship, and his "crew" is floundering. But profits are good - so far.

It's the difference between making money for your passion, or just avarice.

 

[mi7chy]

I blame Tim Cook. The last laptop I owned that failed due to LCD backlight cabling was a late 1990s Compaq Presario. Guess who came from Compaq during that period and brought the issue to Apple without Steve Jobs or Scott Forstall to keep him in check? Yes, Tim Cook.

 

[curtvaughan]

The resale value will probably be poor.

The reputation for great resale value will be the first casualty of the product flaws the last several years. An Apple laptop produced after 2015 is NOT perceived as a great investment.

 

[Plutonius]

I blame Tim Cook.

I would be very surprised if Tim Cook actually had any input into the design other than make it thin and cheap.

Whomever made the actual design decisions will probably have sold their stock options and left Apple.

 

[curtvaughan]

Seems like Apple expects most users to be in a cubicle within a clean room and no traveling. Some of you guys sound like you you need a Panasonic Toughbook or similar.

Well, having had two iMacs succumb to overheating problems over the last 10 years due to ventilation problems, and difficulties in vacuuming the internals when needed, I will grant you that my environment includes a big long haired dog. None of the PC hardware - laptop or desktop - I've owned has had these issues. They are relatively simple to vacuum and clean when necessary. Granted, my home environment could be more Apple friendly, but it's not exactly a saw mill either. The issues with cleaning an iMac could be easily remedied by incorporating easy access to the internals for cleaning/blowing out occasionally.
[doublepost=1548371188][/doublepost]

Jesus. Is Apple trying to shrink their customer base?? As well as they might work in practice, MacBooks have become massively-overpriced paperweights from 2016 on. There's absolutely NO reason why laptops this expensive should require pricey warranty coverage. On an iPhone? Sure, I could see that, but for a $1200+ laptop? When I see that, you can bet I'll be looking at every brand but Apple

I don't know if they're trying, but what they are really accomplishing is a total alienation of a longtime loyal Mac customer base. Slow updates, both with software and hardware, removal of ports, issues with keyboards and cooling, on and on, and at premium prices are taking their toll.
[doublepost=1548371611][/doublepost]

i am considering to sell my new MBP and purchase a mini hopefully it is a good machine).

I just want to ask, why do you want to buy a new Mini from Apple after quandaries with your new MBP? What motivates you to then buy another Apple computer? Is it because you think that the Mini is a great value for the price (as it once was), or is it that you really like MacOS? And if you like MacOS, are you in dire need of software that only runs on Apple computers? I really am just curious. I personally have migrated to PC hardware running Linux, except for my two year old iMac and one year old iPad Pro. I'm okay with that these days.
[doublepost=1548372770][/doublepost]

I would be very surprised if Tim Cook actually had any input into the design other than make it thin and cheap.

Whomever made the actual design decisions will probably have sold their stock options and left Apple.

I would not have speculated such a thing when SJ was around as the CEO - he really had veto power and executed it when he thought it was warranted. But Cook is really a CFO, an accountant. He's also something of a social crusader, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I actually agree with some of his politics. But in terms of the internals of production and quality control, you are probably correct - he really isn't dealing with those things. I don't know who is, but that cabal is responsible for the problems with Macs, killing the phone jack and USB/SD ports, and sacrificing a very workable touchid in favor of pricey infrared faceid. The thin thing is likely Jony directed; I can't speculate the rest. I would tend to point to Cook, as a CFO type, as being responsible for the ramping up of the iPhone/iPad lines and the de-emphasis of Macs. Cook follows the profits.

 

[x86fanboy]

So all I’m gonna say is, it’s up to Apple if they want to honor this or not. They don’t have to.

I assure you, if I had one of these machines, I'd march into the apple store, in my suit, with three lawyers and my film crew.
I would then remind them that the The Competition and Consumer Act of 2010 requires them to, in this case, provide a full refund or replacement with a current model as the failure constitutes a Major Failure and, had I known the device was built with an insufficient flex cable at the time of purchase, I would not have purchased the device.
Every country's different, but in mine, they are legally required to not only repair, but offer a full refund, as a significant portion of the devices expected lifespan has not passed (using my fully functional 2014 MBA, iBook G3, and Powerbook G4 as a reference)

Suck up to apple all you like, but if they follow your advice and this has to go to a class action, rather than simply replacing the flex with an extended cable, they're just gonna end up pushing even more customers away from apple, something, if their sales are anything to go by, they really can't afford to do.

One day my MBA's gonna die on me, maybe it'll last 6 years, maybe 10, but when it does, if Apple hasn't sorted out this junk, there's no way I'm getting a new macbook.
[doublepost=1548387525][/doublepost]

Companies do not need to action faulty equipment outside of warranties.

If apple wants to last till the mid 20's, it'd probably be a good idea for them to repair proven design faults.
Not all design faults appear the moment a product is purchased, some take a while to show up. This is one of them.
To say stuff like "Apple isn't forced to do anything unless apple gets forced to do something" is one of the least intelligent statements I've heard in a long time, who do you think's gonna force them without forcing them, the invisible hand of the free market?
Either they choose to, or they are forced to. In a case as simple as this, where video clearly shows they didn't make a flex long enough, any judge on earth would rule in the favour of a class action.
So, they don't have a choice. They will either do it, or if not, be forced to do it.
"You will either pull the trigger and die with dignity, or I will pull it for you" isn't a choice. Do you not understand this?

 

[giffut]

All design flaws of the 2016ff models are deliberate choices. They are part of a financial strategy to generate more income per machine/lifetime, including AppleCare+ plans and faster repurchase of new models. The T2 bridge is the key to this strategy, locking out any possible third party repair beyond their already misearable repairability - which is a deliberate and conscious design choice firsthand.

The iPhone is the rolemodel of this strategy. They got caught with their pants down with the battery and error 53 fiasco. Small, low quality batteries where and still are used to enforce faster purchase of new models.

Thinness is just a scapegoat or call it a smokescreen - what it means is they need less material and save tremendous costs which increase their profit margins.

The prices will keep rising with quality of material and design severly shrinking for several more years. Only when they loose siginificant profits change may come. Or not - any giant is going to fall, ultimately. We had a good ride for a while.

 

[ignatius345]

Or maybe move on to other products. I don't understand the logic that says, "since the company is lowering the quality of their products I'm going to give them MORE of my money." 😱

That’s the power of the ecosystem right there. I’m just as bad as that other poster: I am finding many reasons to be unhappy with Apple hardware (particularly MacBooks) lately — but at the end of the day I’ve got decades of buy-in into Mac OS and the software I use in it. Switching would come at a big cost and I’m not too jazzed on any other alternatives.

 

[sracer]

That’s the power of the ecosystem right there. I’m just as bad as that other poster: I am finding many reasons to be unhappy with Apple hardware (particularly MacBooks) lately — but at the end of the day I’ve got decades of buy-in into Mac OS and the software I use in it. Switching would come at a big cost and I’m not too jazzed on any other alternatives.

I can understand that. It is the reason most give for giving Apple a "pass" on the decline of the quality of their products.

Depending upon how one interacts with the ecosystem, the cost of leaving could be much less than anticipated. Paying $200 for AppleCare+ on every Apple product purchased is one expense that would end. 🙂

People didn't get neck-deep into the ecosystem overnight and they're not going to get out of it overnight. But anyone who wants to do that, needs to have a plan. A plan that is phased in over time, as each device needs to be replaced to take a step back and assess their needs and Apple's offerings.

It isn't even necessary to leave the ecosystem completely, just disentangle enough that one is not "forced" to buy a product that doesn't offer value. My exit strategy has taken 2 years. I'm comfortable with the remaining Apple products I have because they still offer great value to me. I can now pick n choose which Apple products I buy based on the tangible value those products provide for the price (rather than going along with the flow because the ecosystem drags me along).

There are some very helpful discussions in the "Alternative" subforum on MacRumors where we share our experiences.

 

[Phone Junky]

Just sold my 2016 MacBook Pro. I’m not gonna get nailed with a $600 repair bill.

 

[maflynn]

I sold my 2018 MBP and while only 6 months old, I'm so relieved. I'm not prepared to give apple a pass on any of these issues. I don't know of any laptop model that had endured so many problems, whether we're talking about the butterfly keyboard, or the T2 crashing in the 2018 model and the list goes on and on. Now owners are having to deal with this issue? So sad 🙁

 

[ipponrg]

I sold my 2018 MBP and while only 6 months old, I'm so relieved. I'm not prepared to give apple a pass on any of these issues. I don't know of any laptop model that had endured so many problems, whether we're talking about the butterfly keyboard, or the T2 crashing in the 2018 model and the list goes on and on. Now owners are having to deal with this issue? So sad 🙁

Work replaced my durable 2015 with a 2018. When I’m running a lot of chrome tabs for debugging, there are some really really weird display flickering at times. I wonder if it’s related.

I also have a 2016 as well. Fortunately without problems so far. The instant Apple gets rid of the touchbar and brings back physical function keys, I’ll sell this and jump on that model probably.

 

[joss.b]

Work replaced my durable 2015 with a 2018. When I’m running a lot of chrome tabs for debugging, there are some really really weird display flickering at times. I wonder if it’s related.

I'm getting screen flicker sometimes in Firefox, 3 or 4 times a week maybe, but it's never the whole screen, only the Firefox application window, and it seems to be restricted to some form of in-tab media activity/playback. But this might not be the same as what you are experiencing. (MBP 2018 i9)

 

[ignatius345]

I can understand that. It is the reason most give for giving Apple a "pass" on the decline of the quality of their products.

Depending upon how one interacts with the ecosystem, the cost of leaving could be much less than anticipated. Paying $200 for AppleCare+ on every Apple product purchased is one expense that would end. 🙂

People didn't get neck-deep into the ecosystem overnight and they're not going to get out of it overnight. But anyone who wants to do that, needs to have a plan. A plan that is phased in over time, as each device needs to be replaced to take a step back and assess their needs and Apple's offerings.

It isn't even necessary to leave the ecosystem completely, just disentangle enough that one is not "forced" to buy a product that doesn't offer value. My exit strategy has taken 2 years. I'm comfortable with the remaining Apple products I have because they still offer great value to me. I can now pick n choose which Apple products I buy based on the tangible value those products provide for the price (rather than going along with the flow because the ecosystem drags me along).

There are some very helpful discussions in the "Alternative" subforum on MacRumors where we share our experiences.

All good info and perspective, thanks. The one thing I could possibly see doing is getting a non-Apple laptop for writing and basic email/web stuff and wrangling that into my workflow -- unless Apple comes to its senses and starts selling MacBooks with good keyboards again. My iMac 5K is probably staying and I rather doubt I'm getting an Android phone anytime soon.

 

[Matthew.H]

With how bad the 2016 to current Apple laptops have been in terms of build quality and reliability, I wouldn't buy one myself nor would I recommend them to family/friends. Unless Apple comes up with a well made, reliable, decently specced and priced Macbook Pro, I'll be holding on to my 2014 rMBP until it dies.

 

[ipponrg]

I'm getting screen flicker sometimes in Firefox, 3 or 4 times a week maybe, but it's never the whole screen, only the Firefox application window, and it seems to be restricted to some form of in-tab media activity/playback. But this might not be the same as what you are experiencing. (MBP 2018 i9)

I'm getting that same problem.

Whether I'm on Zoom calls or if I have a tab opened playing video (or ads), it flickers every so often as well specifically to the tab or window.

 

[Premal212]

I'm getting that same problem.

Whether I'm on Zoom calls or if I have a tab opened playing video (or ads), it flickers every so often as well specifically to the tab or window.

I had the same with Zoom calls, I just had my screen and cable replaced, see my earlier post.

All is working well so far !

 

[Colbach]

Wow, still no update from Apple. When Apple do not address this issue, I will sell my MBP while it is in warranty. This is not acceptable. I had so much problems since I own it. Apple replaced the Keyboard two times and changed the Logicboard because of graphics issue.

 

[smoledman]

Louis Rossmann is going to have a field day.
[doublepost=1548812459][/doublepost]In retrospect, the 2016 Macbook Pro with touch bar will be remembered as the day Apple's decline began. Sort of like with Microsoft when Ballmer laughed at the iPhone in 2007. Only 12 years later is Microsoft beginning to recover.

 

[0388631]

I blame Tim Cook. The last laptop I owned that failed due to LCD backlight cabling was a late 1990s Compaq Presario. Guess who came from Compaq during that period and brought the issue to Apple without Steve Jobs or Scott Forstall to keep him in check? Yes, Tim Cook.

He was at Compaq for a mere six months. Are you asserting his very short tenure there had such an effect that it affected a multitude of Compaq's then mobile product line?
[doublepost=1548813809][/doublepost]

I sold my 2018 MBP and while only 6 months old, I'm so relieved. I'm not prepared to give apple a pass on any of these issues. I don't know of any laptop model that had endured so many problems, whether we're talking about the butterfly keyboard, or the T2 crashing in the 2018 model and the list goes on and on. Now owners are having to deal with this issue? So sad 🙁

I've gotten some mint offers for my 2016/2017 model by a few employees of mine. I don't use it much except for certain tasks on Apple only software and it's in excellent condition. Sits on ventilated stand. I use an external keyboard. A protective but breathable protector sits on the keyboard of the MBP.

I'm thinking of letting it go, too, despite having bought Apple Care, which I know is transferable.

Though I'm curious what you bought instead. Dell XPS or one of the Dell/HP Xeon mobile workstations? My memory is definitely hazy but I recall you saying you worked at an architectural firm. If so, I'm curious why you even bought the MBP when the workstations are much better for those tasks.