yeah I know what you mean for sure. I do think all the fancy animations and styling which slow every thing down is a real frustration to getting things done quickly. Watched a youtube video where someone went through all the slowdowns in his workflow with mac v windows/linux. Stuff like the slide in/out of virtual desktops v instant swap on win/lnx. The animation may look nice the first time you do it but after you've seen it and waited for it 1000s of times a day, it just gets annoying.
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Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows
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yeah I know what you mean for sure. I do think all the fancy animations and styling which slow every thing down is a real frustration to getting things done quickly. Watched a youtube video where someone went through all the slowdowns in his workflow with mac v windows/linux. Stuff like the slide in/out of virtual desktops v instant swap on win/lnx. The animation may look nice the first time you do it but after you've seen it and waited for it 1000s of times a day, it just gets annoying.
Took a screenshot showing the difference between old and new 🤢
I absolutely hate the flat and I hate windows implementation of that more then macos
Want to bet the new MacBooks will have rounded screens like a Samsung Galaxybook. Then the UI will match the hardware. I bet when they release the new version of the OS it will not have rounded corners on older hardware and the rounded corners will only work with matching hardware. That is my guess anyway.
As a huge fan of the aqua interface back in the day the idea that they are bringing back elements of it makes me very happy. I was never a big fan of the flat minimalist UI making everything look like iOS. So these changes people are saying they see in the beta or alpha is exciting to me.
As a huge fan of the aqua interface back in the day the idea that they are bringing back elements of it makes me very happy. I was never a big fan of the flat minimalist UI making everything look like iOS. So these changes people are saying they see in the beta or alpha is exciting to me.
No it is not way better when you have elements of Windows 2000 in the menu ui and different functions buried under old sub menus. Adds in the OS are optional but turned on by default? Telemetry is crazy and privacy is a joke. As soon as Microsoft took Windows off of paid new releases to a rolling release that is perpetually free the product has shifted from the OS to the user. The user is the product just like with Google, Facebook, etc. I don't like that setup at all.
Personally the rolling release is what has deteriorated the experience in Windows ever since. No one expects anything from a new version of Windows other than to be similar to the last. We used to be excited with every new version of Windows and now it is long gone. People will say it is because they reached a peak and I say BS. Anyone who uses Windows knows exactly what can be improved. Why does each release continue to be more bloated than the last needing more and more resources in order to perform when the opposite should happen at least to a degree. Making software more efficient and ending some legacy compatibility would probably go a long way. Improving the base kernel, file system uniting all of the menus and modernizing their UIs. Figuring out how to make the OS easier to use with less clicks per task or action instead of doing the opposite. Start selling new releases of Windows and start making real improvements and make privacy a thing.
Windows is great for what is is. It could be so much better with some pretty small changes.
As an example that is purely observational. My Windows laptop with top of the line Intel processor, lots of ram and ssd. Really overpowered but efficient. Yet if I just turn on and log into my account on Windows and do nothing the processor is running doing a lot of work doing nothing. So what is it doing? My opinion is Telemetry is constantly working the OS in the background.
My MacBook doesn't have any such issues. A M2 MBA that is fanless seems to be as fast or faster than newer Windows laptops and runs longer, cooler, and doesn't have some invisible payload going on in the background.
I remember the days of XP, Windows 2000, Windows 7 which were some of the best Windows releases all of which were paid releases. They were terrible at security which has greatly improved but they were very efficient OS. MS always had Telemetry but it was minimal compared to today. Those OS were faster and more efficient and had more features with new releases. A lot of UI elements from those releases are still in Win 11!! I wish MS would return more to it's roots. Be the hobbyists computer with modularity at the hardware level. Stop poaching data from customers and making them the product you sell.
Yup, Windows 7 was the bomb! Best Windows ever. I prefer the window management of actually closing a program from the upper right BIG ACTIVE AREA X. If you click the teeny tiny microscopic RED dot on MacOS, it does not even really CLOSE the app. No one knows what it really does.
And I always forgotten to mention that when I am speaking of Windows 11, I ALWAYS use StarDock to make it like Windows 7. I actually forget that not everyone does that. Because, you are correct, the current version of Win11 out of the box SUCKS HARD for a multitude of reasons, most of which you have mentioned
Unfortunately, MacOS is not that far behind. One thing I can assure you of is... Glass is NOT the answer. Never has been, never will be.
Let's just agree to disagree with glass. Lol.
I themed my Win 11 to match XP desktop without using stardock. It was fun. I like stardock but I don't want to have to pay for it to get a decent desktop experience and I don't like 3rd party UI added to the mix in Windows. I fear privacy, hacking or performance hit which I know are probably unfounded because stardock has a great and long track record and I have used them a long time ago and liked it. I just didn't feel it was worth it on top of anti virus subscription at the time. I should revisit stardock. Do they allow you to stop any telemetry or is just UI tweaks?
Actually the closing of the windows and not the program running is a Unix OS thing. It is simply the way the modular operating system works as opposed to Windows more monolithic although that has changed a bit over the years. I am sure that Apple could change this behavior but once you get used to it like most MacOS users you just know what to do.
MacOS is geared for multi tasking and efficient enough to have several programs running at once and can suspend them instead of close them so you can just get back to what you were doing as quickly as possible saving you the steps of saving, closing, opening, then working it is simply suspended in ram ready to go when you get back to it. Old school people like myself are not used to this behavior and we're taught this is a way for corruption or lost files to occur, bog down your system and potentially cause errors. With older OS like Dos, the Win 95-98, and on to Millennium edition you had to save your work as you were writing to avoid data loss and using multiple programs at once or without closing would bog down the system. Now things are completely different even on Win 11. However, for us used to doing things a different way it is just an adjustment. Obviously you don't want multiple programs running forever and can simply select quit program after you close the window. An extra step but it also confirms your decision which I like so it doesn't bother me personally but if you are used to Windows I can see it would be annoying.
At the end of the day all operating systems have quirks unique to them. Some people like them and some don't and when I tally up quirks of Windows 11 vs MacOS I have less annoying things to deal with on MacOS than in Windows and since I personally don't have software I can only use on one platform I am free to simply use what I prefer on a daily basis. I like Linux, BSD, Windows, MacOS, ChromeOS but I end up using my MacBook the most because I enjoy using it the best.
Apple has done far better with MacOS than Windows at least in the last decade in terms of laptops and desktops penetrating a lot of Windows marketshare with lower pricing or more flexible pricing with MBP with a regular not pro chip or buying a gen behind MBA pricing is very competitive when say before m chips pricing wasn't as good.
Neither of them is perfect and a lit to be desired. It would be great if we had more than essentially a duopoly between MS and Apple. I want another player. With more competition on the laptop/desktop OS space things would change for the better.
If Google was smart they would invest in ChromeOS to be a viable alternative to Windows and Apple not just a cheap OS for kids in schools.
Then with another major player with money Apple and MS would have to be more competitive with their software and hardware.
So you just have to choose the lesser of ***** or evils. Everything and every OS is a compromise.
I themed my Win 11 to match XP desktop without using stardock. It was fun. I like stardock but I don't want to have to pay for it to get a decent desktop experience and I don't like 3rd party UI added to the mix in Windows. I fear privacy, hacking or performance hit which I know are probably unfounded because stardock has a great and long track record and I have used them a long time ago and liked it. I just didn't feel it was worth it on top of anti virus subscription at the time. I should revisit stardock. Do they allow you to stop any telemetry or is just UI tweaks?
Actually the closing of the windows and not the program running is a Unix OS thing. It is simply the way the modular operating system works as opposed to Windows more monolithic although that has changed a bit over the years. I am sure that Apple could change this behavior but once you get used to it like most MacOS users you just know what to do.
MacOS is geared for multi tasking and efficient enough to have several programs running at once and can suspend them instead of close them so you can just get back to what you were doing as quickly as possible saving you the steps of saving, closing, opening, then working it is simply suspended in ram ready to go when you get back to it. Old school people like myself are not used to this behavior and we're taught this is a way for corruption or lost files to occur, bog down your system and potentially cause errors. With older OS like Dos, the Win 95-98, and on to Millennium edition you had to save your work as you were writing to avoid data loss and using multiple programs at once or without closing would bog down the system. Now things are completely different even on Win 11. However, for us used to doing things a different way it is just an adjustment. Obviously you don't want multiple programs running forever and can simply select quit program after you close the window. An extra step but it also confirms your decision which I like so it doesn't bother me personally but if you are used to Windows I can see it would be annoying.
At the end of the day all operating systems have quirks unique to them. Some people like them and some don't and when I tally up quirks of Windows 11 vs MacOS I have less annoying things to deal with on MacOS than in Windows and since I personally don't have software I can only use on one platform I am free to simply use what I prefer on a daily basis. I like Linux, BSD, Windows, MacOS, ChromeOS but I end up using my MacBook the most because I enjoy using it the best.
Apple has done far better with MacOS than Windows at least in the last decade in terms of laptops and desktops penetrating a lot of Windows marketshare with lower pricing or more flexible pricing with MBP with a regular not pro chip or buying a gen behind MBA pricing is very competitive when say before m chips pricing wasn't as good.
Neither of them is perfect and a lit to be desired. It would be great if we had more than essentially a duopoly between MS and Apple. I want another player. With more competition on the laptop/desktop OS space things would change for the better.
If Google was smart they would invest in ChromeOS to be a viable alternative to Windows and Apple not just a cheap OS for kids in schools.
Then with another major player with money Apple and MS would have to be more competitive with their software and hardware.
So you just have to choose the lesser of ***** or evils. Everything and every OS is a compromise.
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We are similar, but different
I got my start on DOS and Windows3.0. Stayed there for 20 years or so mainly fixing/teaching windows. And, like you said, SAVING often I am a simple man (yeah, right) but I like a large X to close whatever it is. Or a RED circle. Both of those basically mean STOP/END.I recently got into the Mac eco system as I am getting older. One system, and my photos/files are wherever I want them to be. Same with email. I am using the built in Mac email app. Never thought I would say that
AI am keeping it as simple as possible. The new M4 mini is OUTSTANDING. As is my brand new iPad Pro 13. Two insanely good products IMHO. And my Mac Book Air M3 does not suck either. So, somewhat by accident rather than design, I went all in on Mac.I love Parallels because it works very well. And like you, I can/do use whatever OS I want. Heck, I bet even OS2 is still around somewhere
But I have Win 11 ARM and Ubuntu.I wish MS had done Windows 7.5 Or Windows 7 Pro. This whole 8 skip 9 go to 10 to 11 debacle has not been fun. So, again, when necessary Stardock to the rescue for me.
My computer before the mini was an Intel NUC Phantom Canyon. IMHO best computer Intel ever build. Solid as a brick, FAST, and SILENT. I hated to let it go, but the siren song of simplicity called my name. I had always had an iPhone, so just being able to text from the mini is huge. I probably may possibly have gotten to Mac sooner, as I would have affairs every now and again with a mac mini. But really, at the risk of sounding crazy, it was those microscopic colored dots that drove me back to Windows. I am a UI/UX guy for websites, and that goes against every single thing ever learned about UI/UX in the past twenty years. As proven by the fact that they (the colored dots) have not changed in twenty years.
End rant
Rock on. Enjoy your evening.ps on my Windows 11 ARM install, I do NOT use Stardock. I do not use Windows much at all except for that freaking excellent Solitaire game. This is again, about the aforementioned simplicity factor. Less is more.
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Not sure what you're complaining about here. Are you saying that because Windows still has some menu features remaining from the older versions of Windows NT from which all modern Windows versions have descended that the UI is crap? Yet macOS, even with many of the same elements as the original Mac OS X 10.1 still remaining in the UI is somehow different?
Windows hasn't become significantly more processor or RAM intensive since the Windows 8 days (in fact, even Windows 8 tended to perform better than Windows 7). Windows 8 through 11 have all run pretty much the same on similar hardware. That's why there is so much uproar about Microsoft ending support for 8+ year-old hardware - there are literally millions of 10+ year old Windows computers technically able to run Windows 11 perfectly fine except for Microsoft's artificial hardware support limitations.
How? What about the base kernel do you think needs significant improvement?
Same question.
Well, as far as "modernizing UIs" go, it seems like at least since the release of Windows 10 and the modern "flat" UI, it has been Microsoft creating modern desktop UIs and macOS and Linux environments following their lead. Other than apparently trying to re-invent the Windows Vista / Mac OS X 10.4 experience with Liquid Glass in the current beta cycle, Apple certainly hasn't really done much on the "modernization" of UIs in nearly 15 years.
Uniting the menus in Windows I certainly can agree with, but I think progress is still steadily happening in that area in Windows. At this stage, the places that are still using "legacy" UI elements (ie, Device Management, some utilities, certain settings still buried in Control Panel, Group Policy and other Admin tools) are things that generally still work very well and are very seldom used by end-users.
Unless you're talking about the menu design in applications themselves, in which case that will never happen because Windows doesn't (and never will, hopefully) have the "menu perpetually at the top of the screen" design that macOS has and application developers are free to design their menus however they see fit.
You mean like closing an application? Or switching between virtual desktops? Or arranging multiple application windows on large screens? Or having dynamic contextual menus to complete common tasks? Because right now Windows has macOS and Linux beat in all those aspects, and that doesn't seem like it is likely to change any time soon.
Really doubt it is telemetry. Telemetry doesn't take nearly enough bandwidth to cause that kind of a slowdown and if it were the cause, it would be constant, not just when you first log in. In my experience it has been either bloatware from the hardware vendor (Dell is bad for this, their management tools are pretty awful - I run into this same issue on my work laptop and it doesn't affect any of my other older laptops), or it is sometimes Windows update (generally if you haven't used your laptop in a while). Couple this with the fact that Intel mobile processors are just garbage these days, and it is easy to see how this can happen on a Windows laptop.
This is one of the few areas that Apple absolutely blows away everything else - the M series processors are a massive performance improvement over x86 on mobile devices and it is not even close.
Windows XP (and to a lesser extent, Windows 2000) were most PC users' first introduction to a modern operating system ("modern" in this sense meaning fully 32-bit with protected memory, multi-threading, pre-emptive multitasking, and real multi-user security). Compared to the world they were coming from (either DOS-based Windows or Classic Mac OS) the reliability and responsiveness of using XP or 2000 was a massive improvement. I think this experience is why many people tend to view that era with a particularly rosy set of glasses. Windows 7 also has some of this (though to a lesser extent) partly because of the terrible experience that was Windows Vista and Windows 8.
From a security, UI, and stability perspective, Windows 10 is a far better operating system than any version of Windows that came before it and Windows 11 has some improvements over Win 10 (though also some back-steps, such as the relatively ****** Start menu and Task bar).
You want Microsoft to go back to making BASIC interpreters for 1970's microcomputers? Because they haven't been "the hobbyists computer" since long before the haydays of Lotus 1-2-3 and WordPerfect.
I don't think Stardock does anything with telemetry, but their Object Desktop applications are generally pretty decent (except for Deskscapes - that one seemed to suffer some serious memory leak issues, not sure if they've ever fixed it). I use Start11, Groupy, Fences, and Multiplicity and they all run just fine without any apparent overhead issues. I don't run Windowblinds (that would be the product that actually skins the UI itself), so can't comment on that one, though.
This has nothing to do with "modular", "modern", "monolithic", or "microkernel" operating systems. The Mac OS design of having a window control that closes the window but not one that exits the application dates back to the Classic Mac OS. Not sure which Unix environments might work the "mac" way, but I've used a number of Linux desktop environments and none of them follow that design. Even Windows used to require users to quit applications with either a "File >> Exit" or Alt-F4 hotkey (the "X" to quit applications was first introduced in Windows 95).
It is actually possible (and quite trivial) to write a Windows application that does not quit when all of its windows are closed. There are many applications that do this.
DOS-based Windows and Classic Mac OS both suffered from these reliability issues (ie, no protected memory and very poor multitasking), but this was far less of an issue for 32-bit operating systems, even in the early 1990s (ie, OS/2, Windows NT, BeOS, NeXT, Rhapsody, Unix, Linux, etc.)
There's a reason why modern Windows is based on NT and modern MacOS is based on NeXT/Rhapsody.
Desktop OS's are pretty much a commodity now. Selling an OS as a stand-alone product isn't really a thing anymore (with the exception of maybe volume licensing), so I think Google rightly understands that the real value is in the software and services they can offer on top of Chrome OS.
In that vein, I think Google is poised to pick up some pretty major wins. Google has managed to do something nobody has been able to do since the early 1990s - be a viable threat to the MS Office hegemony. Google's Office products aren't just being deployed in classrooms anymore. There are enterprise shops deploying Google's office products instead of MS Office.