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Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

My goodness you lot are giving me "configuration and build" vibes!
If I wasn't heavily focused on other things, I probably would rebuild my Windows PC, and do some upgrades. I am still using an old build...


Parts:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7, 3700x
Motherboard: ASUS B550-F ROG Strix Gaming AMD
Memory: G Skill Tridentz Neo 16GB DDR4 3600
Storage: Crucial P1 1TB SSD & M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe
Video Card: ASUS GeForce RTX Dual 2060 6GB Evo OC
Case: Lian Li 205 Tempered Glass ATX
Power Supply: EVGA Super NOVA 750 G+
Fans: Thermaltake Pure Plus 12 / Chromax by Noctua for the CPU

From the above, if you were to "upgrade" one of two items, what would it be?
 
maflynn said:
Oh I know the history, like I said, I've been using VB due to Oracle's delivery methods, they largely ignore that application. Oracle buying Sun was one of the worst things that happened in the computer industry. They own the license rights to javascript but don't' do anything to that, other then sue people for trademark infringement.
Click to expand...

Brendan Eich invented Javascript while he was at Netscape with the project later turned into an open source project (Firefox) under Mozilla. He invited me to a meeting on the Javascript JIT in Whistler BC back in 2008 to work on it but I had my hands full with other commitments.

Sun Microsystems invented Java and Oracle did make a mess of it. Same thing with MySQL which is why the principals forked MariaDB once their lockups ended. There's still a ton of software that runs on Java because the portability is great but it's still a versioning minefield.
 
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circatee said:
My goodness you lot are giving me "configuration and build" vibes!
If I wasn't heavily focused on other things, I probably would rebuild my Windows PC, and do some upgrades. I am still using an old build...


Parts:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7, 3700x
Motherboard: ASUS B550-F ROG Strix Gaming AMD
Memory: G Skill Tridentz Neo 16GB DDR4 3600
Storage: Crucial P1 1TB SSD & M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe
Video Card: ASUS GeForce RTX Dual 2060 6GB Evo OC
Case: Lian Li 205 Tempered Glass ATX
Power Supply: EVGA Super NOVA 750 G+
Fans: Thermaltake Pure Plus 12 / Chromax by Noctua for the CPU

From the above, if you were to "upgrade" one of two items, what would it be?
Click to expand...

The thing about using a high-end motherboard is that you tend to want to hang onto it for a long time. AMD launched a new AM4 CPU in 2025 but you're going to get far better performance with AM5.

AM5 gives you so much more potential and longevity but it would mean upgrading the CPU and RAM too.
 
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pshufd said:
Brendan Eich invented Javascript while he was at Netscape with the project later turned into an open source project (Firefox) under Mozilla. He invited me to a meeting on the Javascript JIT in Whistler BC back in 2008 to work on it but I had my hands full with other commitments.
Click to expand...
Oracle owns the rights to JS and they've acted in ways that are contradictory to opensource.

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/12v1ev7/oracle_owns_javascript_and_is_sending_notices
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1h14kc9/deno_v_oracle_canceling_the_javascript_trademark
 
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maflynn said:
That's the problem and why people are pushing for them to lose the rights.
Click to expand...

In use, development and implementation, their trademark means nothing. They have no involvement in the project and never have. They have added a Javascript execution engine in Oracle 21 (2020) but Oracle hasn't sued anyone else for using it while there is case to get the trademark overturned for abandonment.

SS 1.png
 
maflynn said:
They own the license rights to javascript but don't' do anything to that, other then sue people for trademark infringement.
Click to expand...

This is the case for Java, not Javascript. They sued over Java but I'm unaware of them suing anyone for trademark infringement over Javascript.
 
I'm noticing that Geforce is being quite laggy the past few days, I flip flop between crossover and Geforce Now. The streaming service offers better graphics and at time improved performance but lately it hasn't. I only have a week or so before my month of service ends. I think I'll not let it auto-update.
 
maflynn said:
I'm noticing that Geforce is being quite laggy the past few days, I flip flop between crossover and Geforce Now. The streaming service offers better graphics and at time improved performance but lately it hasn't. I only have a week or so before my month of service ends. I think I'll not let it auto-update.
Click to expand...

You're dependent on their bandwidth and server capacity as well as your own so performance should fluctuate. Our home bandwidth can fluctuate from 50 to 600 mbps and that's per Comcast's terms of service. What they provision you is more of a maximum but there are a lot of factors, particularly neighborhood congestion, that can result in much lower performance.
 
circatee said:
My goodness you lot are giving me "configuration and build" vibes!
If I wasn't heavily focused on other things, I probably would rebuild my Windows PC, and do some upgrades. I am still using an old build...


Parts:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7, 3700x
Motherboard: ASUS B550-F ROG Strix Gaming AMD
Memory: G Skill Tridentz Neo 16GB DDR4 3600
Storage: Crucial P1 1TB SSD & M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe
Video Card: ASUS GeForce RTX Dual 2060 6GB Evo OC
Case: Lian Li 205 Tempered Glass ATX
Power Supply: EVGA Super NOVA 750 G+
Fans: Thermaltake Pure Plus 12 / Chromax by Noctua for the CPU

From the above, if you were to "upgrade" one of two items, what would it be?
Click to expand...

pshufd said:
The thing about using a high-end motherboard is that you tend to want to hang onto it for a long time. AMD launched a new AM4 CPU in 2025 but you're going to get far better performance with AM5.

AM5 gives you so much more potential and longevity but it would mean upgrading the CPU and RAM too.
Click to expand...
If this is a gaming rig upgrading the CPU and GPU could probably hold you over until AM6. You don't even have to do anything crazy. 5700X (3D if you can get it for a decent price) and a 9060XT (8GB variant is probably fine) are pretty decent upgrades over what you have now.
 
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diamond.g said:
If this is a gaming rig upgrading the CPU and GPU could probably hold you over until AM6. You don't even have to do anything crazy. 5700X (3D if you can get it for a decent price) and a 9060XT (8GB variant is probably fine) are pretty decent upgrades over what you have now.
Click to expand...
Cheers...
 
circatee said:
Parts:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7, 3700x
Motherboard: ASUS B550-F ROG Strix Gaming AMD
Memory: G Skill Tridentz Neo 16GB DDR4 3600
Storage: Crucial P1 1TB SSD & M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe
Video Card: ASUS GeForce RTX Dual 2060 6GB Evo OC
Case: Lian Li 205 Tempered Glass ATX
Power Supply: EVGA Super NOVA 750 G+
Fans: Thermaltake Pure Plus 12 / Chromax by Noctua for the CPU

From the above, if you were to "upgrade" one of two items, what would it be?
Click to expand...
This is basically my PC, I have a 3700X, and it still holds up pretty decently,. I upgraded the GPU from a 2060 Super to a 7800XT - A 4070 equivalent for rasterization. If it were me doing the upgrade, I'd look to spend the money on a 5070 GPU before putting money anywhere else.

if you can find a 5800X3D for cheap, that might be a nice move as well
 
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maflynn said:
This is basically my PC, I have a 3700X, and it still holds up pretty decently,. I upgraded the GPU from a 2060 Super to a 7800XT - A 4070 equivalent for rasterization. If it were me doing the upgrade, I'd look to spend the money on a 5070 GPU before putting money anywhere else.

if you can find a 5800X3D for cheap, that might be a nice move as well
Click to expand...
...thanks for the tips. Those 5070's are pricey! With Micro Centre, it seems they'd offer me a 'credit' of sorts ($83), on my 2060.
 
circatee said:
Those 5070's are pricey! With Micro Centre, it seems they'd offer me a 'credit' of sorts ($83), on my 2060.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the pricing is painful to be sure. I'd not even bother with trading in your 2060, you'll probably get more money selling it privately.
 
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Installing Windows.

I had it all put together yesterday but couldn't get any power at all to the system. My daughter redid the power connectors (those tiny little pins) and it came up. My eyes and dexterity aren't what they used to be.

I was ready to drive to Microcenter today to drop it off and ask them to get it up and running but would have felt pretty dumb doing it for just a pin issue. So the next question is: do I want to do a build for me? Apparently there is a store policy of one bundle per household but I don't know if that's per month, per year or the specific bundle.

I've read on Reddit that it is completely at the discretion of the store manager and that the intent of the rule is to prevent system builders from getting their parts at steep discount. But I guess that the thing to do would be to call.

So my options are back to doing my own build, likely a 9700X, if I couldn't get the same bundle. The 9700X without the bundle and the same other components costs about the same as the 9900X with the bundle. The 9700X is more popular with gamers as it has a higher single-core score but lower multicore score. Both are more than I need though. The other option is an M4 Studio but the really nice $400 discount from a week or two ago is only $270 right now.
 
Geekbench 6 3,263 / 18,250. The reference numbers are 3,340 / 19K+. I assume they ran it with performance settings.

Crystal Disk Mark was disappointing: 5,005 read / 4,409 write. It has a cheap Crucial 4 TB drive which is the likely reason. A Samsung 990 Pro would probably get over 7K. The Lenovo Yoga gets 6,951 / 6,829.
 
Took the motherboard out of my case, put it in daughter's case and set it up with her RTX 4060 and it's up and running. RTX Geekbench 6 OpenCL went up 10K points going from PCIe Gen 3 to PCI Gen 5. Her video card only supports Gen 4 so she gets some bandwidth improvement but I think that the RTX 5xxx series get free use of more performance due to bandwidth.

So I have to put my motherboard back in the box and hook everything back up and then decide if I want to upgrade and then what to upgrade with. I'm actually pretty tired out from the motherboard stuff and will put my old system back together tomorrow. I am somewhat impressed that ordinary people can put together a computer and get it up and running given how complex the overall operation is.
 
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I got to test my Windows trading program on the 9900X and it's faster than any other system I've tested, which should be no surprise. I'd love to test it on an M4 processor, even with the WINE and Rosetta 2 CPU penalty just to get an objective number as opposed to an extrapolated number but that would mean a buy and return (or keep if it is significantly faster than my old Windows desktop).

The 9900X is a sick system. Most of the time we were using 0.5 to 3% of the CPU. There was one spike to 10%. This thing has huge CPU capability which is why I think that AMD sells far more 9700X chips than the 9900X. The 9700X has faster single-core and most gamers don't need the multicore of the 9900X. I could see it for creatives and anyone else that needs strong multicore. CPUs are getting faster and faster but the multicore scores of the high-end CPUs aren't necessary for most people. I'm in the camp where about 12K multicore is fine but we have the 9900X at about 19K and the M4 Max Studio at almost 24K.

I'm going to put the 10700 motherboard back in my case and get that set up and use it for a while and think about what's next. The 10700 is adequate but I have a better idea as to what I'd upgrade to on the PC side. Apple will likely do M5 this fall (less likely) or early 2026 (more likely) which will provide more options (discounted M4 and unknown M5).

If I go PC, would I build it or ask Microcenter to do it? It is fun building systems though not necessarily when you have parts and screws all over your table and your scratching your fingers trying to remove things and put things in with a monitor with the motherboard manual in the background. We also have all of the tools needed and spare parts to test with in case something doesn't work. That means we don't have to run to Best Buy to get something that would make it easier.
 
Most gamers will be picking the 9800x3d, unless they are on a budget, like me, they will pick the 9700x.
 
LiE_ said:
Most gamers will be picking the 9800x3d, unless they are on a budget, like me, they will pick the 9700x.
Click to expand...
Most hard core gamers would get the 5800x3d to be sure, but think overall, the 9700x is sort of a hidden gem that isn't terribly slower then the 9800x3d but at a more palatable price tag. I don't understand the naming conventions but it seems the 3700x (zen 2) -> 5800x (zen 3) -> 7700x (zen 4) -> 9700x (zen 5). My 3700x was quite cost effective when I bought it, provided lower power but very good performance. and good core counts.

If I were building a PC today, the 9700x would be high on my list. I would definitely be tempted by the 9800x3d but more likely I'd opt for the 9700x
 
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I ran an idle power test between my M1 Pro MacBook Pro 16 and Lenovo Yoga (258V) and the Yoga used 10% more power though both numbers were very low. I also ran a YouTube 1080p test and, same thing, the Yoga used about 10% more power. One thing about the MacBook Pro is that I have turned off a lot of background processes on Sequoia and that may be a factor but Lunar Lake Lake is close enough for more than all-day battery life.

I've no idea as to why Arrow Lake turned out so different. The CPU is the same process but it's designed for higher performance but why couldn't they get the idle performance down to Lunar Lake like Apple Silicon?

Update: we tested an MSI Raider 16, 14900HX, nVidia 4070 mobile and it was 25 watts at idle. That's not really surprising but I was just curious. That thing has about 2 hours of battery life.
 
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I spent a few hours trying to get macOS running on VirtualBox on the Yoga. macOS Monterey runs but I can't login to iCloud. So I tried QEMU which is a Linux program. I have run this in the past before Apple Silicon came along. I will say that running Linux on Windows is a breeze now. I recall trying to set up WSL back around 2018 or so and it was just a huge pain to get it to work and there were different versions with various parts in various stages of working.

So back then I wound up running Linux under VMWare on Windows so that I could run QEMU and macOS. It was basically running a virtual machine on top of a virtual machine.

Today, you just click two checkboxes, reboot, and that's all the setup you need. You then get the version of Ubuntu you want from the Microsoft Store, install it and you have Linux running on Windows where there is very little overhead to do so. There are various Github packages to install and run macOS and these tend to use pieces from OpenCore. But it's pretty easy to run Windows, Linux and macOS these days. I did have to relearn vi to change config files - the good old days.
 
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