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What is your logic here? I really cannot figure it out. Are you saying that H1N1 is confined to college campuses? Are you saying that 36,000 is too small a number to worry you?

Im just saying that I am not worried about it even if its at the campus. Im the healthiest person I know, if they start dropping off like flies maybe ill start to worry. My bringing up the numbers was due to 5000 being used as a stat around the world.

Aren't we short on vaccines anyways? Why would I take one up when some old person or a kid could take one.
 
Im just saying that I am not worried about it even if its at the campus. Im the healthiest person I know, if they start dropping off like flies maybe ill start to worry. My bringing up the numbers was due to 5000 being used as a stat around the world.

Oh I see, so you don't care about anyone else's health either then huh? What if your friend has asthma and is at a higher risk than you? Would you get vaccinated for him?

What if most of your professors are over 50 and thus at a higher risk for death, would you get vaccinated for them?

Or would you at least get vaccinated for yourself on the off chance that your body can't cope with it?

Aren't we short on vaccines anyways? Why would I take one up when some old person or a kid could take one.

So you'll get vaccinated when supplies are more abundant? That's good to hear.

On another note, why does the idea of a vaccine frighten you so much? It takes so little effort on your part to help preserve and protect your life and the lives of others. Surely the needle doesn't scare you that much? ;) :)
 
Im just saying that I am not worried about it even if its at the campus. Im the healthiest person I know, if they start dropping off like flies maybe ill start to worry. My bringing up the numbers was due to 5000 being used as a stat around the world.

Aren't we short on vaccines anyways? Why would I take one up when some old person or a kid could take one.

High-risk individuals are priority #1 for the h1n1 vaccine right now. But it is recommended for everyone.

But really, I see what this is about now..."I'm the healthiest person I know"...it's about bravado for you. How stupid.
 
Im just saying that I am not worried about it even if its at the campus. Im the healthiest person I know, if they start dropping off like flies maybe ill start to worry. My bringing up the numbers was due to 5000 being used as a stat around the world.

Aren't we short on vaccines anyways? Why would I take one up when some old person or a kid could take one.
Unfortunately being a "healthy person" can count for little for pandemic influenza. For instance the 1918 pandemic actually took a large proportion of the young, fit, and healthy population. Which has a massive impact on the economy and society as they are generally some of the most productive.

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And that's not to mention that as a young and fit and mobile person you're a perfect vector for transmission to vulnerable people.
 
Oh I see, so you don't care about anyone else's health either then huh? What if your friend has asthma and is at a higher risk than you? Would you get vaccinated for him?

What if most of your professors are over 50 and thus at a higher risk for death, would you get vaccinated for them?

Or would you at least get vaccinated for yourself on the off chance that your body can't cope with it?



So you'll get vaccinated when supplies are more abundant? That's good to hear.

On another note, why does the idea of a vaccine frighten you so much? It takes so little effort on your part to help preserve and protect your life and the lives of others. Surely the needle doesn't scare you that much? ;) :)

If I get sick I stay home, so I wouldn't be subjecting anyone to my sickness, I am self employed so I can simply take off as long as I want if I get sick.

I had some pretty bad experiences as a kid with nursing personnel which included having a bent needle pulled out of my leg, I tattoo myself so its not the needles, I generally do not like doctors/nurses unless they are working on someone else.

High-risk individuals are priority #1 for the h1n1 vaccine right now. But it is recommended for everyone.

But really, I see what this is about now..."I'm the healthiest person I know"...it's about bravado for you. How stupid.

quiet down.
 
And also lots of paranoia. So far we've had 1,000 swine flu deaths in the last year vs 36,000 regular flu deaths per year.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hjdCHrP82YTFser5vD6CzTK1az6wD9BH1V280

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

That doesn't warrant the paranoia about swine flu we've been seeing.

Auto deaths are much higher as well, and people still drive.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_deaths_are_caused_by_car_accidents_a_year

I can't believe you're accusing people of being paranoid. Do you not recall our conversations about this flu back in April through June?
 
If I get sick I stay home, so I wouldn't be subjecting anyone to my sickness, I am self employed so I can simply take off as long as I want if I get sick.

Individuals are typically contagious for at least a few hours before they feel any symptoms. You would be exposing others without even being aware of it.
I had some pretty bad experiences as a kid with nursing personnel which included having a bent needle pulled out of my leg, I tattoo myself so its not the needles, I generally do not like doctors/nurses unless they are working on someone else.

No offense, but it's time to get over it. Not all medical assistants are going to bend the needle and cause you pain. In fact, most are quite adept at giving shots (I didn't even feel mine).
 
Individuals are typically contagious for at least a few hours before they feel any symptoms. You would be exposing others without even being aware of it.


No offense, but it's time to get over it. Not all medical assistants are going to bend the needle and cause you pain. In fact, most are quite adept at giving shots (I didn't even feel mine).

I don't think you've dealt with an irrational phobia before. The last time I got a vaccination I smashed my head on the concrete 15 minutes after wards.
 
I don't think you've dealt with an irrational phobia before. The last time I got a vaccination I smashed my head on the concrete 15 minutes after wards.

So do you plan on allowing this phobia to determine the level of healthcare you receive forever?

Because quite honestly, you're going to encounter needles at some point or another and they are going to be far more daunting than a simple flu shot.

In any case, there's always the nasal spray for H1N1.
 
So do you plan on allowing this phobia to determine the level of healthcare you receive forever?

Because quite honestly, you're going to encounter needles at some point or another and they are going to be far more daunting than a simple flu shot.

In any case, there's always the nasal spray for H1N1.

I am late about 3 years for my tetanus vaccine (10 year scope) so I probably will avoid it as long as possible.

As for nasal spray, if its readily available I wouldn't mind taking it, I certainly wouldn't take it at the expense of the very young/very old though, I am confident in my immune system compared to theirs.
 
I don't think you've dealt with an irrational phobia before. The last time I got a vaccination I smashed my head on the concrete 15 minutes after wards.
That sucks ZA :(. Needle phobias are awful. I had a bit of one after fainting a few years back and hitting my head on a door. I still get a wave of feeling nauseous and sweaty occasionally when I'm getting a needle - esp if I am reminded of my past experience. It's not a rare phenomenon at all.

You've probably tried but the suggestions I make if I'm giving someone a needle is to have them slouch right down in the chair, or even lie down. The doctor won't mind. There's also a cream called emla which is a topical local anaesthetic that takes away all the sensation. Most doctors will have this. You just rub it on and 20 minutes later you can have the needle pain free. But for vaccinations the needle is usually very fine which means you can hardly feel it.
 
That sucks ZA :(. Needle phobias are awful. I had a bit of one after fainting a few years back and hitting my head on a door. I still get a wave of feeling nauseous and sweaty occasionally when I'm getting a needle - esp if I am reminded of my past experience. It's not a rare phenomenon at all.

You've probably tried but the suggestions I make if I'm giving someone a needle is to have them slouch right down in the chair, or even lie down. The doctor won't mind. There's also a cream called emla which is a topical local anaesthetic that takes away all the sensation. Most doctors will have this. You just rub it on and 20 minutes later you can have the needle pain free. But for vaccinations the needle is usually very fine which means you can hardly feel it.

Its not really the process or feeling pain that causes a reaction for me, I have no problem with tattoo needles, its the whole nurse + needle + knowing liquid is being injected. My mind will start rerunning the experience and then I will pass out sometime later, its pretty weird actually.
 
I'm in healthcare and this thread reflects what I hear each day.

1) People should be concerned, but not as scared as the 24 hour news outlets would have you believe. Influenza has the ability to mutate easily (hence the yearly vaccine), so its characteristics could change. We should be vigilent.
2) Because you are young and healthy DOESN'T mean you can't get ANY infectious disease and die from it (you can be an excellent driver and die in a wreck any day)
4) One sick person can infect many. We think droplet spread is the most likely vector of transmission. An uncovered cough or sneeze spreads droplets many feet. Hands that have touched contaminated surfaces should not be brought to your face without washing them
3) Seasonal influenza vaccine is manufactured exactly the same way as the H1N1 vaccine - the H1N1 vaccine just protects against that strain, while the seasonal vaccine protects against 3 strains. So "it's new so it might not be safe" is needlessly scaring people.

But the most frightening aspect of this, as with so many medical issues, are the rumors/innuendo/anecdotes spread as fact and give equal weight in the media at fact. People are stupid cattle; we are reactionary. The media play on this and whip us into a frenzy (avian bird flu, West Nile Virus, SARS, Hantavirus, anthrax ring any bells. To often we think with our hearts rather than our heads (I've found that blood can perfuse either the brain or the heart at one time, but not both at the same time adequately). I fear for us as a species.
 
Its not really the process or feeling pain that causes a reaction for me, I have no problem with tattoo needles, its the whole nurse + needle + knowing liquid is being injected. My mind will start rerunning the experience and then I will pass out sometime later, its pretty weird actually.
Even if it's not the actually pain the emla still might help. It decreases the sensation (both of the needle and the injection) which is what can trigger your negative thoughts. It can also decrease your anxiety as you have contact with the nurse and have time to acclimatise yourself to the clinic environment while it kicks in. It's actually quite therapeutic beyond just the pain relief which makes it quite good on anyone who has vasovagals.

But my other suggestions can help as well. Slouching right down in the chair or lying down. But I can assure you that once you have a few successful experiences chances are you'll be a different person :).
 
If I get sick I stay home, so I wouldn't be subjecting anyone to my sickness, I am self employed so I can simply take off as long as I want if I get sick.

Which works as long as you don't need supplies. If this is your chosen remedy (which is fine), then please at least let the person delivering your food know why you are quarantined so that they can make an informed decision about how to protect themselves. And research what the infectious stage is so that you know when to quarantine yourself.

Also, as stated elsewhere, this particular bug seems to be hitting the young pretty hard. If you are in US, do you have health insurance? If you end up being one of the ones who has to go to hospital and spend time ICU it could be financially devastating.
 
Which works as long as you don't need supplies. If this is your chosen remedy (which is fine), then please at least let the person delivering your food know why you are quarantined so that they can make an informed decision about how to protect themselves. And research what the infectious stage is so that you know when to quarantine yourself.

Also, as stated elsewhere, this particular bug seems to be hitting the young pretty hard. If you are in US, do you have health insurance? If you end up being one of the ones who has to go to hospital and spend time ICU it could be financially devastating.

I choose not to have health insurance (I most likely wouldn't use it anyways).
 
I choose not to have health insurance (I most likely wouldn't use it anyways).

If we were in a made for TV movie right now, you'd be getting cancer riiight.... aboooout.... now!

Seriously, this thread is not made for discussing ZAs personality traits, so let's just leave him be :)
 
What confuses me is why is it the American public in particular who seem to be so against the vaccine? Being the one industrial country without a form of government supported healthcare means that getting sick can be financially devastating.

I figure the vaccine is like insurance. The chances of our house being robbed are 1 in hundreds or thousands.... but we have insurance because if we lose that bet the consequences are devastating. The chances of our house burning down are 1 in 100s of thousands or even 1 in a million. But we have that insurance too.

There is a cost to the insurance. It costs money. We could certainly use that money - but we still get the insurance.

To carry the analogy further, we don't buy insurance for every peril. No chance of a hurricane here, or a tornado... so we choose not to get that particular kind.

Most years, I don't get the seasonal flu shot because I'm not one of the vulnerable groups. This year is different. This flu is pandemic - which doesn't necessarily mean more fatal - but does make it more likely you are going to catch it. Also, it appears that this strain is especially hard on younger people.

In Canada the current advice is that the elderly get their regular seasonal flu shot first, because as in most years they will be hard hit by seasonal flu - leaving the the H1N1 flu vaccine for the younger crowd - and that the non-elderly get the H1N1 vaccine first. Once the initial rounds of vaccinations have taken place we all get to swap clinics and the elderly will then get a chance at H1N1 and the rest of us will get a chance at regular seasonal flu shots. Very confusing.

If people choose to not get vaccinated, that is their choice. But please do so for the right reasons, not because of half-baked myths.

One of the fears of the health authorities is that enough people will get seriously ill that emergency departments are overwhelmed with people with the flu. Just found a stat here, at the US National Centre for Medical Intelligence

What it says -basically, among other things - is that it believes that the infection rate for H1N1 could be 2 to 5 times higher than regular seasonal flu - and could approach 50% of the population contracting H1N1. And that 3%-4% of those people will need hospitalization.

Assume that the fatality rate is similar to regular flu, so that means in the US instead of 36,000 dying it will be 70,000 to 150,000. I found another stat for Chicago on the CDC site that found that just about 2/3s of the people hospitalized were aged 29 or less. (my emphasis).
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5833a1.htm

Also, that 20% of those hospitalized were put into ICU. Imagine the impact on healthcare for everyone when the hospitals are swamped with flu stricken people. Look at your local hospital... could they deal with a 10% or 20% increase in emergency room intakes, increased demand on ICU beds, etc etc for the many months that a flu season typically runs. In my part of Canada the H1N1 flu season has already started to hit hard. In early September there were no deaths due to H1N1 (in a reporting week) to 63 deaths this past week.

I'm just saying, do some real research before deciding whether the vaccine is good for you or not.

Whoa - too much seriousness. Imagine how good those graphs and charts would look on that 27" iMac! I wish I could come up with one good real reason why I needed it.... sigh.
 
The recommendations for the very young, very old, or immune compromised people getting H1N1 shot makes sense, but probably not for most healthy people not in those groups.

This year is weird because this H1N1 flu shot version is so new and people are not sure if it's worth it for them if they are not at risk in the first place. Next year will give us a clearer picture if there is the need overall. There are so many who have had H1N1 with little consequence and the seasonal regular flu has been more dangerous so far and it appears the regular flus is likely to kill more people.
 
If I get sick I stay home, so I wouldn't be subjecting anyone to my sickness, I am self employed so I can simply take off as long as I want if I get sick.

I had some pretty bad experiences as a kid with nursing personnel which included having a bent needle pulled out of my leg, I tattoo myself so its not the needles, I generally do not like doctors/nurses unless they are working on someone else.



quiet down.

Struck a nerve?

Yup.
 
What confuses me is why is it the American public in particular who seem to be so against the vaccine? Being the one industrial country without a form of government supported healthcare means that getting sick can be financially devastating.

I figure the vaccine is like insurance. The chances of our house being robbed are 1 in hundreds or thousands.... but we have insurance because if we lose that bet the consequences are devastating. The chances of our house burning down are 1 in 100s of thousands or even 1 in a million. But we have that insurance too.

There is a cost to the insurance. It costs money. We could certainly use that money - but we still get the insurance.

To carry the analogy further, we don't buy insurance for every peril. No chance of a hurricane here, or a tornado... so we choose not to get that particular kind.

Most years, I don't get the seasonal flu shot because I'm not one of the vulnerable groups. This year is different. This flu is pandemic - which doesn't necessarily mean more fatal - but does make it more likely you are going to catch it. Also, it appears that this strain is especially hard on younger people.

In Canada the current advice is that the elderly get their regular seasonal flu shot first, because as in most years they will be hard hit by seasonal flu - leaving the the H1N1 flu vaccine for the younger crowd - and that the non-elderly get the H1N1 vaccine first. Once the initial rounds of vaccinations have taken place we all get to swap clinics and the elderly will then get a chance at H1N1 and the rest of us will get a chance at regular seasonal flu shots. Very confusing.

If people choose to not get vaccinated, that is their choice. But please do so for the right reasons, not because of half-baked myths.

One of the fears of the health authorities is that enough people will get seriously ill that emergency departments are overwhelmed with people with the flu. Just found a stat here, at the US National Centre for Medical Intelligence

What it says -basically, among other things - is that it believes that the infection rate for H1N1 could be 2 to 5 times higher than regular seasonal flu - and could approach 50% of the population contracting H1N1. And that 3%-4% of those people will need hospitalization.

Assume that the fatality rate is similar to regular flu, so that means in the US instead of 36,000 dying it will be 70,000 to 150,000. I found another stat for Chicago on the CDC site that found that just about 2/3s of the people hospitalized were aged 29 or less. (my emphasis).
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5833a1.htm

Also, that 20% of those hospitalized were put into ICU. Imagine the impact on healthcare for everyone when the hospitals are swamped with flu stricken people. Look at your local hospital... could they deal with a 10% or 20% increase in emergency room intakes, increased demand on ICU beds, etc etc for the many months that a flu season typically runs. In my part of Canada the H1N1 flu season has already started to hit hard. In early September there were no deaths due to H1N1 (in a reporting week) to 63 deaths this past week.

I'm just saying, do some real research before deciding whether the vaccine is good for you or not.

Whoa - too much seriousness. Imagine how good those graphs and charts would look on that 27" iMac! I wish I could come up with one good real reason why I needed it.... sigh.

Because they are, on the whole, science-illiterate and extraordinarily lazy. Instead of reading actual scientific studies they watch Glen Beck tell them that vaccines are bad for them and somehow convince themselves that he (and themselves by extension) are authorities on the issue.
 
Slightly off topic, but...

I used to have a terrible fear of needles, which I decided was no good. I started to give blood, first few times I went with work mates, couldn't be scared in front of them :) Now - no issue with needles, and I still give blood, which in itself is a good thing.

Just cos it worked for me doesn't mean it'll work for you, but even if it just meant you gave blood once it would be a good thing (if only for all the blood analysis that gets done).
 
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