Spoilers "For All Mankind" Discussion Thread (May Contain Spoilers)

[Huntn]

The Man In the High Castle spoilers

Man in the High Castle is exactly what came to mind as I started watching this, both in terms of story and the oftentimes painful writing/direction. How is this the best show so far? I so want to love this as I love Apollo-era history and I’ll probably be in for the long haul if only for that, but goodnight, some of this dialogue is so stunted. Many of the actors aren’t helping, and the direction could certainly be better, but the writing is what it is. I don’t want to throw my Apple TV remote at the TV as often as I did with Man in the High Castle and it’s cast of utterly and completely hollow characters at least, so there’s that. But it’s early. Let’s hope they actually flesh some characters worth caring about out of this as time goes on.

You are not giving me incentive to watch FAM, honestly which is not necessarily bad.

For TMITHC, I watched the show, before I read the book, and the brilliance of that story is the parallel, alternate reality aspect In the story. The difference is that in the novel, there is a what if the Allies had won book (The Grasshopper Lies Heavy) and a Japanese Officer living in occupied San Francisco, who studies I Ching and actually sees a vision that would come from an alternate parallel reality where the Allies had won WWII. In the book, this is fleeting.

In the TV show they really run with this, creating mysterious documentary type movies that are being smuggled about, that show the Allies winning and the Axis powers losing and even a couple of people who can move between realities. This drives the story.

So For All Mankind, I would assume this is not a blatant copying of High Castle, so I ask, is there intrigue involving alternate realities? Does the story hinge on alternate realities in any way? Or does this story just pick up from 1950-60s and portrays a history where the American-Soviet Space Race just keeps going? Is it historical in nature or does it show a present based on the premise?

What would you describe as the hook, that makes it worth watching? Thanks!

Note: After posting this, I scanned other replies, and guess I should watch the first free episode.

 

[Huntn]

What’s more interesting to me is real life. Both the US and USSR made reckless moves in the desire to be “first” to the moon. The USSR was “first” with everything before and after us except landing a human on the moon (indeed, they sent a woman to space first, which “For All Mankind” envisions Nixon embracing). We haven’t been back to the moon since the risk/reward ratio just isn’t there. China is likely to be the first to Mars, which might rekindle our own space program.

I’m not sure I’d call the US efforts reckless, other than the inherent danger of space flight witnessing the loss of several space shuttles, but I could be convinced with a good argument.

I agree with the risk/reward-expense calculation. We as a species just don’t have our act together where we can sink trillions into space travel, while ignoring the human condition on earth, along with trashing the planet so some of us can be wealthy. Understood, this is kind of a PRSI comment, so it’s my opinion, just let it lay there.

 

[gkarris]

Seems like Episode 3 got a little better..

When will they post the next ones?

 

[canyonblue737]

Seems like Episode 3 got a little better..

When will they post the next ones?

Fridays

 

[Huntn]

10 episode season?

 

[Aydy]

10 episode season?

= 3 month subscription. See what you did there apple ?

 

[Huntn]

= 3 month subscription. See what you did there apple ?

3 episodes a month? This won’t save them. In the age of streaming it’s a bad idea imo. You want your viewers invested in your series. They are competing with Netflix and Amazon who release entire seasons at a time. I can wait 3 months or 6 month. ? HBO strings the audience along but that is 4 episodes a month. For Game of Thrones, I waited 2 months to start my binge subscription. $15 for 10 episodes is reasonable. For AppleTV that would be $5.

So 10 episode season FAM?

 

[gkarris]

= 3 month subscription. See what you did there apple ?

You can do what others do on the other services:

Wait until it's all available, subscribe for a month and binge!

 

[Jim Lahey]

Two episodes in now. Excellent show!

 

[nutmac]

I caught up to watching all 3 episodes.

The series strikes a great balance in presenting both sides of the issue. Issues like feminism, equality, immigration, nationalism, and consequentialism (Wernher von Braun's war crimes vs. pursuit of science) are naturally and carefully presented using 60s/70s background.

Ronald D. Moore is wise to invest in characters. They are multi-dimensional struggling with internal conflicts.

The pacing is deliberate but always evolving. The story is neither predictable nor over the top.

It's already one of my top 5 currently running shows (Better Call Saul, The Handmaid's Tale, Mr. Robot, Westworld).

 

[loekf]

EP4 is good, guess it kind of suggests EP5 will cover the Apollo 15 mission.

 

[gkarris]

4-5 are really good...

There's a slight "flash forward" at the end of 5.

Thought the show would go there but according to IMDB - goes back their present day in Ep. 6.

 

[LonestarOne]

The production is HBO level insane.

How so? I haven’t seen any graphic violence or explicit sex, and very little profanity. None of the things HBO is known for.
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I am all for giving people another chance if they are sincere about it. But regarding Von Braun, I am not sure he has ever repented.

Von Braun lied to avoid trial for war crimes. He told interrogators that he did not know the V-2 would be used against civilian targets, which was an obviousl transparent fiction. The accuracy of the guidance system was so poor that it was nearly useless for anything else. The interrogators undoubtedly knew that but let it slide past because it was convenient for them to believe it.

incidentally, the portrayal of Von Braun as an outraged peacenik was out of character. He was working on a military moonbase (among other projects) when he was with the US Army’s Redstone arsenal prior to NASA. Yes, there was his famous toast where he liked to say we should take all the money spenton war and make them spend it on space instead, but when he didn’t have civilian funding, he was more than willing to work for the military — anyone’s military.

 

[nutmac]

4-5 are really good...

There's a slight "flash forward" at the end of 5.

Thought the show would go there but according to IMDB - goes back their present day in Ep. 6.

Flash forward is dated October 1973, a likely mission timeframe of Apollo 19. I wonder if Gordon's outburst with Danielle's Vietnam veteran husband cost him the opportunity to land the first lunar base.

 

[LonestarOne]

Episode 5 was the first one that strained credibility. The difference between low-latitude and polar landing is huge. There’s no way they could make that change on the spur of the moment. Nor could they possibly analyze orbital reconnaissance data that quickly. Finally, I can’t imagine NASA ever giving astronauts that much autonomy.

 

[gkarris]

Episode 5 was the first one that strained credibility. The difference between low-latitude and polar landing is huge. There’s no way they could make that change on the spur of the moment. Nor could they possibly analyze orbital reconnaissance data that quickly. Finally, I can’t imagine NASA ever giving astronauts that much autonomy.

Science Fiction tends to do that.

I love the "out on an adventure" then close to the end - flash back at base safely, a Sci-Fi cliche...

 

[Jim Lahey]

Episode 3 was a little off-kilter for me. The whole "inclusive" thing felt a little like it was injecting 21st-century social politics into the 1960's. Still an enjoyable episode and doesn't even come close to spoiling the show for me, but it's the weakest point so far. Here's hoping episode 4 isn't about a Chinese lesbian bisexual non-binary African American with ADHD ?

 

[gkarris]

Episode 3 was a little off-kilter for me. The whole "inclusive" thing felt a little like it was injecting 21st-century social politics into the 1960's. Still an enjoyable episode and doesn't even come close to spoiling the show for me, but it's the weakest point so far. Here's hoping episode 4 isn't about a Chinese lesbian bisexual non-binary African American with ADHD ?

Far from it...

 

[nutmac]

Episode 3 was a little off-kilter for me. The whole "inclusive" thing felt a little like it was injecting 21st-century social politics into the 1960's.

I think the series is doing a great job presenting both sides of the story. That these women astronauts are fast tracked and used as political stooges.

 

[Jim Lahey]

I think the series is doing a great job presenting both sides of the story. That these women astronauts are fast tracked and used as political stooges.

An interesting point. I shall continue watching with interest.

 

[gkarris]

I think the series is doing a great job presenting both sides of the story. That these women astronauts are fast tracked and used as political stooges.

ntm - the race against Communism and the resulting militarization of the Space Program...

 

[burgman]

What’s more interesting to me is real life. Both the US and USSR made reckless moves in the desire to be “first” to the moon. The USSR was “first” with everything before and after us except landing a human on the moon (indeed, they sent a woman to space first, which “For All Mankind” envisions Nixon embracing). We haven’t been back to the moon since the risk/reward ratio just isn’t there. China is likely to be the first to Mars, which might rekindle our own space program.

Write the check...

 

[burgman]

Episode 5 was the first one that strained credibility. The difference between low-latitude and polar landing is huge. There’s no way they could make that change on the spur of the moment. Nor could they possibly analyze orbital reconnaissance data that quickly. Finally, I can’t imagine NASA ever giving astronauts that much autonomy.

Fortunately it’s a fictional show not a historical account so I forgive them. Plus I don't have the expertise to have an opinion either way.

 

[Ar40]

3 episodes a month? This won’t save them. In the age of streaming it’s a bad idea imo. You want your viewers invested in your series. They are competing with Netflix and Amazon who release entire seasons at a time. I can wait 3 months or 6 month. ? HBO strings the audience along but that is 4 episodes a month. For Game of Thrones, I waited 2 months to start my binge subscription. $15 for 10 episodes is reasonable. For AppleTV that would be $5.

So 10 episode season FAM?

I much prefer Apple's slow release method. I feel like I can actually have weekly water cooler talk about this show, compared to Netflix. Also, I get overwhelmed by too much choice/content. This way I have had the ability to watch all currently available episodes of See/FAM/TMS/Dickinson at a relaxed pace and have something to look forward to every Friday.

 

[Ar40]

How so? I haven’t seen any graphic violence or explicit sex, and very little profanity. None of the things HBO is known for.
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People don't watch HBO for any of those reasons. Having profanity, graphic violence, and sex do not make a show good or adult. Adult shows are shows with depth, and which use profanity, violence, and sex to tell the story more effectively. Apple has succeeded on that count, incorporating language in The Morning Show for accuracy to a real newsroom, sexual content in See to show the foreign-ness of that culture (notice that there was a cutaway when Baba Voss was about to have sex with Maghra, as sex in that scene would not have served the story or plot), and See has tons of graphic violence.

There is no reason For All Mankind needs to have any of those three (besides profanity, which it does have), based on the type of show it is aiming for. It is a quality HBO'esque show regardless.
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Flash forward is dated October 1973, a likely mission timeframe of Apollo 19. I wonder if Gordon's outburst with Danielle's Vietnam veteran husband cost him the opportunity to land the first lunar base.

That voice sounded like Gordo during the flash forward to me.
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Episode 5 was the first one that strained credibility. The difference between low-latitude and polar landing is huge. There’s no way they could make that change on the spur of the moment. Nor could they possibly analyze orbital reconnaissance data that quickly. Finally, I can’t imagine NASA ever giving astronauts that much autonomy.

NASA gave them that autonomy in response to Nixon's prodding and due to the fallout from Ed's comments about NASA being too afraid to take risks. I thought the series earned that creative decision.