For all you Wi-Fi borrowers....

[Bosunsfate]

A related story. I was driving along in my car using my laptop as an MP3 player, I had stopped at a light and was connected to a network. So, I pulled over and looked at where it was coming from. It was coming from the Sherrif's department on the corner. I was connected to it automatically because it wasn't password protected. If they leave a network wide open like that, I could imagine what they're internal network security must be, I probably could've wreaked all kinds of havoc on their network, had I been inclined.

Dude, what a story.

Then again I live in San Francisco and it amazes me how many open networks there are. Just at my house I can count five unsecured and six secured. Going from block to block there is always one, if not more.....

On a related note. I've always been worried about who can get onto my network. I use 128bit WEP, which I know it can be cracked...but its like the story about the hikers and bear.....there are so many open networks, I don't think a hacker would bother with me. So as the story goes, you don't need to out run the bear, only the other hiker

 

[notjustjay]

2) Unauthorized person uses your wireless access to upload and trade child porn. Who's computer is going to get seized and who's going to have to convince the cops that YOU weren't the person who did it.

The above two scenarios will most likely get sorted out after several months but that would rely heavily on the competency of the investigating officer.

Plus, it could do irreparable collateral damage. If you ever get "busted" for kiddie porn, even if you had nothing to do with it, and news of the raid gets plastered on the local news and TV, you're in for a rough ride. Imagine losing your job, your girl, your friends, ... (Hey, we did say we were talkign about worst case scenarios...) Even if you do eventually get cleared, you can bet there will be people who continue to eye you suspiciously for a long time afterward...

Not a very cool price to pay for failing to check the "WEP" box in the router menu.

 

[Linkjeniero]

I've heard of people who take advantage of this: they leave their connection unsecured on purpose, so if they ever get caught for downloading warez or music, they can always blame it on somebody else. At least, it induces "reasonable doubt", doesn't it?

 

[ITASOR]

I've heard of people who take advantage of this: they leave their connection unsecured on purpose, so if they ever get caught for downloading warez or music, they can always blame it on somebody else. At least, it induces "reasonable doubt", doesn't it?

No, it was still done on the owners internet connection. They will be the ones in trouble. It was their fault for letting someone else use the connection.

 

[XIII]

linksys is a good choice, as is 'NETGEAR'.

Unfortunately 2wire access points have grown in popularity...they have WEP on by default.

I have mine on "linksys" because I couldn't think of anything more apt. Yet you will find it very hard to get onto it.

 

[jywv8]

True but only if the usage is happening at the same time. My main point is that it is not a clear cut issue like many other things. This is really new territory and what the end result will be....well a $250 fine isn't much of anything......

It seems pretty clear cut to me. It is theft. Petty theft, but theft nonetheless. It comes down to this: I'm paying for something, and you're using what I'm paying for without compensating me for it. Whether it harms me in some measurable way or not is not the point. I'm spent my hard-earned money for internet access and a router. If someone wants internet access they should pay for it themselves.

I mean, wow. I can't believe people are actually trying to defend this. I guess you would all be happy to let some stranger live in your house for free when you aren't there as long as they cleaned up after themselves. Or tap into your cable TV service for free as long as it didn't degrade your picture quality.

 

[MacNut]

It is nothing more then if you drop a $100 dollar bill on the sidewalk, if someone else pics it up did they steal the money or find it cause someone left it there. If I go back and say my money was stolen and someone says where was it, I say I think I dropped it on the sidewalk. What will a cop say to me, Your out of luck, Next time hold on to your money.

 

[DeeJay Dan]

I have mine on "linksys" because I couldn't think of anything more apt. Yet you will find it very hard to get onto it.

I just use my last name for both my router and network name.. At least if someone is trying to connect they'll know who's network it is. I've been toying with the idea of opening up my wireless because are no hot spots in my area.

My neighbors are in they 70's when their grandkids visit for the summer they bring laptops, I guess they found the network and couldn't get on, they asked and I let them use it. I just set my PC's firewall to block all connections from those IPs so they cannot look at files or print to my printer.

As an extra precaution, I grab the MAC address and set the router to only allow wireless connections from certain MACs sure they can be spoofed but the likelyhood of someone sitting outside my house with a computer trying to spoof a MAC without me noticing a strange car with someone sitting in it is low.

I generally don't have a problem with someone using my connection as long as I know who it is. The grandkids probably only use IM and myspace stuff like that. If they download music well I do too, so if my IP got flagged it could've been my fault anyway.

 

[RamSlack]

It is nothing more then if you drop a $100 dollar bill on the sidewalk, ......... Next time hold on to your money.

I sat here staring at my screen typing, deleting, retyping, deleting and retyping a response to this analogy. Part of me thought you weren't serious and were being sarcastic. The other part of me worried that you actually believed that dropping your money on the sidewalk was in a sense, like the same thing. I fail to see the comparison.

 

[mcmadhatter]

my ibook auto connections to the most powerful open network, (until i changed it to go to my network first) so it is very possible to accidentally connect to another network.

On a second note:

If your using a mac (which most of us are being on mac rumors) then it is easy to change your mac address from the cards default, and then to change your ocmputer name to something that just comes up on blank on netgear and linksys router, it would make it very hard to be caught when your not actually using it (i.e to be caught by someone looking at logs).

Using kismac to crack wepkeys is a bit more serious that is kind of "with intent"

 

[MacNut]

I sat here staring at my screen typing, deleting, retyping, deleting and retyping a response to this analogy. Part of me thought you weren't serious and were being sarcastic. The other part of me worried that you actually believed that dropping your money on the sidewalk was in a sense, like the same thing. I fail to see the comparison.

Im saying if you leave your money lying around somebody will take it, if you want to keep your money safe lock it in the safe. Don't be shocked when your open Wi-Fi is being used. How can you steal something thats out in the open. Thats what Im saying.

 

[grapes911]

How can you steal something thats out in the open. Thats what Im saying.

My neighbor's Christmas decorations were stolen a few years ago. They weren't locked down and they were sitting right out in the open. He filed a police report. The police found the two teenagers that did it and my neighbor pressed charges. The kids had to do community service for theft. Are you seriously trying to tell me that these two teenagers did nothing wrong and it was my neighbor's fault for leaving the decorations out in the open?

 

[MacNut]

The difference tho is that you have an option to lock a network, Unless you bolt the lights to the house you are taking your chances.

 

[RamSlack]

Im saying if you leave your money lying around somebody will take it, if you want to keep your money safe lock it in the safe. Don't be shocked when your open Wi-Fi is being used. How can you steal something thats out in the open. Thats what Im saying.

Okay, I see what you're saying and I agree that those that do not secure their own wireless access points are opening themselves to possible abuse, however it still doesn't make it right. The owner of the unsecured wireless router is still a victim of theft or computer trespass depending on how you look at it.

Like I said before, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[grapes911]

The difference tho is that you have an option to lock a network, Unless you bolt the lights to the house you are taking your chances.

It doesn't matter if you have an option to lock it or not. It doesn't make a difference. If someone steals something that belongs to me, it's still stealing. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[MacNut]

Just because stealing is wrong doesn't mean that others have morals. If you have something valuable you have to protect it, its that simple.

 

[grapes911]

Just because stealing is wrong doesn't mean that others have morals. If you have something valuable you have to protect it, its that simple.

Yes, but it still doesn't mean that I should be responsible if I decide not to lock something.

 

[Linkjeniero]

I don't see it as theft. I think it's more like reading somebody's paper over his shoulder, or watching your neighbors' TV through their window. Certainly it's not polite, but is it theft? It's not the same than the kids who stole that christmas decoration, because they left the owner without it. If somebody piggybacks in your internet connection, you still have it.

No, it was still done on the owners internet connection. They will be the ones in trouble. It was their fault for letting someone else use the connection.

I don't know if that's true, but I don't think it's right. The fact that your connection was used to break the law, doesn't make you the law breaker! This is like leaving your house's door open, and being blamed for murder if somebody goes in, steals your weapon and kills somebody else with it...

 

[grapes911]

If somebody piggybacks in your internet connection, you still have it.

But I won't have the full bandwidth I am paying for because someone will be stealing some of it.

 

[yg17]

Using someone's open WiFi network is not theft. If you're going to call that theft, then the guy sitting in the car next to you at the stop light who can hear your Sirius or XM radio because your window is open is a theif because he's not compensating you for something you pay for. And, as we all know, it would be very silly to call that theft.

 

[grapes911]

Using someone's open WiFi network is not theft. If you're going to call that theft, then the guy sitting in the car next to you at the stop light who can hear your Sirius or XM radio because your window is open is a theif because he's not compensating you for something you pay for. And, as we all know, it would be very silly to call that theft.

There are not the same at all. Here are two exampes.

1. I pay for satellite radio. It doesn't matter how many people hear my radio, the quality, volume, etc doesn't lessen. I still get what I pay for.

2. I pay for internet and set it up wirelessly. If I start downloading files and using all my bandwidth, I am getting what I pay for. As soon as someone leaches on my network, I can no longer access my full bandwidth. I am no longer getting what I pay for.

 

[Benjamindaines]

There are not the same at all. Here are two exampes.

1. I pay for satellite radio. It doesn't matter how many people hear my radio, the quality, volume, etc doesn't lessen. I still get what I pay for.

2. I pay for internet and set it up wirelessly. If I start downloading files and using all my bandwidth, I am getting what I pay for. As soon as someone leaches on my network, I can no longer access my full bandwidth. I am no longer getting what I pay for.

Not to mention listening to someone else's XM radio can't hurt anything, but as stated before some leach could download something (like child porn) and you would be held responsible.

 

[OutThere]

Yes, but it still doesn't mean that I should be responsible if I decide not to lock something.

You're not responsible for the theft, but it's your problem to deal with. If you do decide to lock something and it gets stolen, it should be the police's problem.

 

[grapes911]

You're not responsible for the theft, but it's your problem to deal with. If you do decide to lock something and it gets stolen, it should be the police's problem.

I'm not saying that it isn't your problem to deal with, but some people seem to be saying that you are responsible for the theft itself.

 

[zelmo]

If my neighbor has a cable modem and an unprotected wireless network, and I access it, even benignly (not downloading anything but page views, no accessing kiddie pron or anything), and even if my neighbor is cool with it, aren't I still stealing the service from the cable company providing the access (or at least I'm avoiding having to make my own monthly cable payment for the access)? How is this different than piggy backing off someone's cable TV signal?
If you think about the potential lost revenue for the service providers, then you see what is going to drive making wardriving illegal. Just like stealing cable, the ones at risk here are the providers selling the service. When people steal a revenue opportunity from Comcast, it gets noticed.