For all you Wi-Fi borrowers....

[maxvamp]

Morally, I'd say that it's worse for there to be 5 different people living in the same building, each arranging to have a company to install a phone line, paying for these phone lines individually (achieving nothing but making the shareholders richer) and each having to purchase duplicate hardware. That's stupid, and excessively wasteful of natural resources.

What we have is a decent collective approach, based on mutual trust. If you don't like it, maxvamp, I'm not going to be lying awake at night with worry, believe me.

It is not a case of whether I like it or not. I was bringing up the legality of it.

Truth be told, I have done the same thing with neighbors. The difference was that I had a business line that allowed for such things, and by slicing off lines to them, it lowered my cost.

One other thing,

There is no harm in a person or company trying to make money. In your example, your neighbor and the phone company are trying to make money. Sadly, your neighbor is most likely stealing from the phone company.


Max.

 

[DeepIn2U]

As my dad says, "Locks are for honest people. A crook will still steal something no matter how many locks you put on it."

LOL, strange analogy ... if a person was honest he wouldnt try opening a door without first knocking, waiting for a response, and not entering until invited. But great way of putting it.

It doesn't matter if you have an option to lock it or not. It doesn't make a difference. If someone steals something that belongs to me, it's still stealing. Why is this so hard to understand?

because unlike a house (for which anyone can morgage they have the deed to until fully paid or foreclosure), internet from an ISP is NOT owned by anyone ... its rented. Because of this you dont fully 'own' your bandwidth, and thus its more akin to borrowing. You leave your water sprinkler on the front lawn .... I can walk onto that lawn and run through it just like anyone/kid (like some parents allow) and until you state "get off my property" as a warning you couldnt place a charge or take me to court or validate a lawsuit in small claims court. Did I steal the water going to your house or through the sprinkler onto your lawn? Did I stop it momentarily? No, I only slowed the rate of irrigation to that lawn for a length of time. This is why ppl will call internet badwidth theft (non protected networks is like non fenced lawns) 'borrowing'.

I dont fully agree with it, but I dont see how the law can ban it if ppl will not take the personal initiative for educating themselves to read the manual or ask the manufacturer for assistance to protect their privacy, and not aid & abet a pervert from using their bandwidth to view/share/traffic/communicate for things like childporn, national security, or personal harm to the public or any individual. I wonder what the court says about this angle???!! Hmm.

PS I believe some states you can buy a gun without a license .... but its up to you to take firearm lessons to know not only how to fire it but to learn about the backdrop incase children or another non targeted person is behind your target ... as you CAN be charged for injury that other person even though you injured them. Or an F1 driver, skilled the upmost of driving can be charged in many country's for reckless driving for speeding/streetracing. Its the possibility of endangering others.

 

[mikes63737]

I think that it shoule be illegal to use a wireless connection that the owner has taken the time to secure. If the connection is secure, then you should be charged with stealing (because you're stealing bandwidth) and trespassing (because you're on their personal property without being invited).

If it's not secure, the person who owns the wireless connection should not be protected by the law at all. It always says somewhere in the manual or box that you should turn on security, and there's always some step-by-step instructions. It's (almost) always Windows users who don't use security... but the installation CD's that come with the router/ap have you set up a WEP or WPA key... so there's no reason for it to be unsecure.

 

[dornoforpyros]

because unlike a house (for which anyone can morgage they have the deed to until fully paid or foreclosure), internet from an ISP is NOT owned by anyone ... its rented. Because of this you dont fully 'own' your bandwidth, and thus its more akin to borrowing. You leave your water sprinkler on the front lawn .... I can walk onto that lawn and run through it just like anyone/kid (like some parents allow) and until you state "get off my property" as a warning you couldnt place a charge or take me to court or validate a lawsuit in small claims court. Did I steal the water going to your house or through the sprinkler onto your lawn? Did I stop it momentarily? No, I only slowed the rate of irrigation to that lawn for a length of time. This is why ppl will call internet badwidth theft (non protected networks is like non fenced lawns) 'borrowing'.

That idea sort of makes sence, but I'd say it's more or less if you had your sprinkler on in such a position that it was spraying water onto the sidewalk. If I stand on the sidewalk with a bucket collecting the water, am I stealing?

 

[zami]

I've never used anyone's Wi-Fi, but If I was on the road and came across a open Wi-Fi router, I would use it. How would one tell if the WAP is open for people to use (many resturants, copy places, coffee shops) have open Wi-Fi connections. I think if you don't even setup a password, your are saying, "go aheah". I had my Wi-Fi open for a while and let others used it, but I saw a few sites where some people where downloading kiddie porn on other peoples connection, so I put a stop to it. But if it's open, use it.

Now trying to work around someone's WAP/WEP password is just insane.

There is one that is open on my very road called "24 H*** H**** Road".

Either that is an invitation or an idiot.

Personally I would leave my connection open but for two reasons: the first is the kids that would slow it to walking pace with Bit Torrent, Acquisition, Kazaa etc.(my son always does this when he visits fom university). And the second is that how do I know they are not downloading child porn or plotting to nuke London, next thing you know you are in Belmarsh or on the road to Guantanamo.

BTW don't most routers come with encryption on by default, so how come there are so many open?

 

[Timepass]

There is one that is open on my very road called "24 H*** H**** Road".

Either that is an invitation or an idiot.

Personally I would leave my connection open but for two reasons: the first is the kids that would slow it to walking pace with Bit Torrent, Acquisition, Kazaa etc.(my son always does this when he visits fom university). And the second is that how do I know they are not downloading child porn or plotting to nuke London, next thing you know you are in Belmarsh or on the road to Guantanamo.

BTW don't most routers come with encryption on by default, so how come there are so many open?

No most routers come open by default. They are open so the computer can tie into them and set it all up. Other wise it would have to be a hardwire connection every time and people quite offen put there routers in location that just not good to get to if somethign goes wrong and you have to redo it.

As for your kids bit torrent turn on QoS on the routers and it really does help speeds quite a bit.

 

[The Mad Kiwi]

I think that it shoule be illegal to use a wireless connection that the owner has taken the time to secure. If the connection is secure, then you should be charged with stealing (because you're stealing bandwidth) and trespassing (because you're on their personal property without being invited).

Actually you've got to be asked to leave before you can be charged with trespass. Just as you can't have somebody charged for trespass for coming and knocking on your door (even if you have a gate which is locked and they choose to jump over it). They have to be asked to leave then allowed adequate time to leave.

Anyway it's only weird Americans who have this whole thing about "my property" and the "it's my property and if you don't get off I'll shot you" or charge you or whatever.

People in civilised countries don't really act like that. It'd make an interesting poll.

 

[theBB]

It is not a case of whether I like it or not. I was bringing up the legality of it.

Well, his neighbor might be violating his contract with his ISP, but Dunepilot is still in the clear. For all intents and purposes his neghbor is his ISP, he does not need to care what disputes neighbor/ISP might have with somebody else. He actually might have a business line agreement anyways. Why jump to conclusions?

Sadly, your neighbor is most likely stealing from the phone company.

That's not theft, it is at most a contract dispute, which is a civil matter not a criminal one. (Since you are the one who brings up legality of things.)

 

[theBB]

Anyway it's only weird Americans who have this whole thing about "my property" and the "it's my property and if you don't get off I'll shot you" or charge you or whatever.

People in civilised countries don't really act like that. It'd make an interesting poll.

Oh, so people in New Zealand do not mind strangers walking into their house and watching their TV for a little while, as long as they don't take liberties with their beer in the fridge?

 

[The Mad Kiwi]

Oh, so people in New Zealand do not mind strangers walking into their house and watching their TV for a little while, as long as they don't take liberties with their beer in the fridge?

Correct, as long as they want to watch Rugby.

 

[frankblundt]

... or as long as they don't want to watch rugby

 

[theBB]

Cool, at least I am welcome in at least one house over there.