For Those Not Upgrading, What Could Apple Have Done to Convince You?

[Sanpete]

A differently shaped battery pack is hardly any sort of significant tech advancement. Lithium ion battery packs have come in different shapes and sizes for years. The requirements for the safe operation of lithium ion batteries and packs have also been well understood for years.

But that's plainly not true. See the Note 7, for example.

The fact that some people don't mind a noisy keyboard in no way makes it less of a bad, thoughtless design decision. The key whine and failing keys some are experiencing adds insult to injury. Again, there really isn't any good excuse for this.

That wasn't my point. The new keyboard has real advantages, and it isn't clear they could be achieved more quietly. The keyboard defects are another issue, probably due to heated glue. Not familiar with key whine.

You don't seem to have any devices you can't conveniently use with the new ports. There haven't been many problems with failures of third-party devices.

I haven't extrapolated any hard numbers from forum posts and such. The broad trends are clear enough, though. Most owners aren't having significant QC trouble.

 

[CaptRB]

But that's plainly not true. See the Note 7, for example.



That wasn't my point. The new keyboard has real advantages, and it isn't clear they could be achieved more quietly. The keyboard defects are another issue, probably due to heated glue. Not familiar with key whine.

You don't seem to have any devices you can't conveniently use with the new ports. There haven't been many problems with failures of third-party devices.

I haven't extrapolated any hard numbers from forum posts and such. The broad trends are clear enough, though. Most owners aren't having significant QC trouble.

Yup. I can find plenty of negative posts about EVERY Mac release and some are valid.

But this time I'm seeing the whackiest complaints. I'm sitting her with my 2016 13" tMBP. I don't notice any additional keyboard noise, but the keys certainly feel better than my rMBP or Air. I'm connected to a Dell 27" 4K@60 and it's seamless and perfect with this machine. The brightness of the new 13" display is a great improvement.

Battery life is excellent, on par with my 2015 15" model, but the Air is the best. I actually still prefer the CASE of the Air over ALL other Macs. The tapered case feels best on the lap and even closed.

It's not a perfect computer. I'd like the case to be tapered. I'd like the sharp edges softened. I'd like the SD slot back so I can have removable storage. The USB issue is a non-issue; the USB-C works perfectly and I can charge more easily.


R.

 

[peraspera]

But that's plainly not true. See the Note 7, for example.

There was no new lithium ion technology involved in the Note 7 battery fiasco. Samsung chose to push well-known lithium ion safety measures with sloppy design and sloppy testing. Ignorance of decades old lithium ion safety measures doesn't even rise to the level of laughable as an excuse. Arrogance and corner cutting are the most plausible explanations.

What makes lithium ion batteries fail today has not fundamentally changed since their invention. Failures put people in the hospital, burn down homes and make airplanes fall out of the sky. Lithium ion thermal runaway is extremely nasty involving explosions, fire and highly toxic gasses.
http://aviationweek.com/FAAFireSafety
http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...plosive_history_of_lithium_ion_batteries.html

I don't know what went so terribly wrong at Apple but someone in the upper levels of the food chain who darned well should have been paying extremely close attention to any battery changes was sound asleep at the switch. What else that has, by orders of magnitude, much less serious consequences for failure did Apple ignore?

That wasn't my point. The new keyboard has real advantages, and it isn't clear they could be achieved more quietly. The keyboard defects are another issue, probably due to heated glue. Not familiar with key whine.

The fact that any particular individual likes the keyboard does not obviate the fact that it was a very obnoxious design choice for Apple use a noisy keyboard for a portable computer that is meant to be commonly used outside the privacy of one's home in near enough proximity to other people to legitimately irritate them.

The notion that Apple is not capable of designing an appropriately quiet keyboard that functions well is silly. That Apple chose not to do so brings up questions about else was given short shrift that may not be so glaringly in-your-face obvious.

Wonky key glue issues certainly should not inspire confidence as to the care taken for build quality.

You don't seem to have any devices you can't conveniently use with the new ports. There haven't been many problems with failures of third-party devices.

I am not one bit fond of having to waste my time troubleshooting so I don't find it at all "convenient" to purchase additional devices, accessories and cables for my Macs that are not certified and barely have even inadequate reviews. There are not even junk options available for the type dock I would want and I haven't seen a MagSafe choice I would seriously consider.

I haven't extrapolated any hard numbers from forum posts and such. The broad trends are clear enough, though. Most owners aren't having significant QC trouble.

"Most" customers not having immediate issues is a ridiculously low bar for a computer with a hefty premium price. Seeing so many posts from people commenting about not being optimistic about playing the exchange lottery to get a defect-free computer is disheartening.

 

[Sanpete]

I don't know what went so terribly wrong at Apple

Correct. And you don't know what went on at Samsung either, where it took months to discover the cause of the problem with the batteries. Nor do you know anything about designing keyboards, I assume.

The fact that any particular individual likes the keyboard does not obviate the fact that it was a very obnoxious design choice for Apple use a noisy keyboard for a portable computer that is meant to be commonly used outside the privacy of one's home in near enough proximity to other people to legitimately irritate them.

You said that before, but again, that's not my point.

Again, you haven't even hinted at the slightest troubleshooting that would be required for you to use the new MBP. You merely assert there might possibly be some. I don't know what got into you about this, but your approach the new MBP is rather unbalanced.

 

[CaptRB]

There was no new lithium ion technology involved in the Note 7 battery fiasco. Samsung chose to push well-known lithium ion safety measures with sloppy design and sloppy testing. Ignorance of decades old lithium ion safety measures doesn't even rise to the level of laughable as an excuse. Arrogance and corner cutting are the most plausible explanations.

What makes lithium ion batteries fail today has not fundamentally changed since their invention. Failures put people in the hospital, burn down homes and make airplanes fall out of the sky. Lithium ion thermal runaway is extremely nasty involving explosions, fire and highly toxic gasses.
http://aviationweek.com/FAAFireSafety
http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...plosive_history_of_lithium_ion_batteries.html

I don't know what went so terribly wrong at Apple but someone in the upper levels of the food chain who darned well should have been paying extremely close attention to any battery changes was sound asleep at the switch. What else that has, by orders of magnitude, much less serious consequences for failure did Apple ignore?



The fact that any particular individual likes the keyboard does not obviate the fact that it was a very obnoxious design choice for Apple use a noisy keyboard for a portable computer that is meant to be commonly used outside the privacy of one's home in near enough proximity to other people to legitimately irritate them.

The notion that Apple is not capable of designing an appropriately quiet keyboard that functions well is silly. That Apple chose not to do so brings up questions about else was given short shrift that may not be so glaringly in-your-face obvious.

Wonky key glue issues certainly should not inspire confidence as to the care taken for build quality.



I am not one bit fond of having to waste my time troubleshooting so I don't find it at all "convenient" to purchase additional devices, accessories and cables for my Macs that are not certified and barely have even inadequate reviews. There are not even junk options available for the type dock I would want and I haven't seen a MagSafe choice I would seriously consider.



"Most" customers not having immediate issues is a ridiculously low bar for a computer with a hefty premium price. Seeing so many posts from people commenting about not being optimistic about playing the exchange lottery to get a defect-free computer is disheartening.

Here we have a perfect example of the sky is falling thinking we see whenever Apple revamps a product. Logic gets you nowhere because a person like this WANTS to believe the negative reports over the obvious and overwhelming positive response to the product. He really only has a "listening" for the negative stuff, even though it occurs with every new product. Only after the dust settles and a few meaningless upgrades are made, will he feel "safe" in buying.

There's no point arguing. I've now had my new tMBP on multiple shoots, tethered, and using card adapters, external monitors and so on. This is the best machine we've used from Apple and I liked the 2015 rMBP a lot.

So you're wasting your time. He doesn't own the machine. He's relying on what he wants to believe via 2nd and 3rd party sources. It's a lot like talking to a Trump supporter who thinks scientists agreed to scam the world on global warming. You just can't get through to them.


R.

 

[No. 44]

I have to say that the emotion about the USB-C ports in hilarious!

I agree 100%. I'll never understand how people can get so worked up about computer features on an Internet forum. It really is "hilarious".

Crazy world...

 

[raqball]

I agree 100%. I'll never understand how people can get so worked up about computer features on an Internet forum. It really is "hilarious".

Crazy world...

I couldn't agree more with you... I do realize this is a Mac forum but the way some act makes you think (or at leat hope) they own a ton of Apple stock.. In that case I could understand the defending of Apple at any cost... If a ton of Apple stock is not owned, then the behavior is indeed very, very odd...

 

[Uofmtiger]

I couldn't agree more with you... I do realize this is a Mac forum but the way some act makes you think (or at leat hope) they own a ton of Apple stock.. In that case I could understand the defending of Apple at any cost... If a ton of Apple stock is not owned, then the behavior is indeed very, very odd...

In fairness, it isn't just the defenders of Apple that have juvenile behavior.

As a side note, a large percentage of people own Apple Stock via their 401K. At one time it was the most popular stock in people's portfolios (would not be surprised if it still is). That means a whole lot of people have a vested interest in the company (even some of the Apple haters).

 

[ZapNZs]

I couldn't agree more with you... I do realize this is a Mac forum but the way some act makes you think (or at leat hope) they own a ton of Apple stock.. In that case I could understand the defending of Apple at any cost... If a ton of Apple stock is not owned, then the behavior is indeed very, very odd...

I find the whole thing a little amusing.

One one hand, there are some people whom, if the ghost of Steve Jobs came back and slit their grandmother's throat, they would go on and on about how blood is "legacy technology that no one needs," and defend the decision with, "well she was old anyway."

On the other hand, there are others whom, if Apple donated $77 trillion dollars, ended global conflict, reduced 97% of world hunger, and cured the top 10 deadly diseases known to mankind, would call the effort half-arsed and go on and on about how it should have been $78 trillion, 98% of world hunger, and 11 diseases.

 

[CaptRB]

I agree 100%. I'll never understand how people can get so worked up about computer features on an Internet forum. It really is "hilarious".

Crazy world...

That's easy for you to say...

Last night, while looking for a missing USB adapter for my tMBP, I tripped over my power cord. With no MagSafe, the cord sent me to the floor and the computer as well. My head hit the keyboard HARD and I lost consciousness. If not for the new LOUD keyboard sound, I likely would have died, but my wife easily heard it over the din of her blowdryer and got me to the ER.

So the missing MagSafe nearly killed me, but the loud keyboard saved me. One must take the bitter with the batter and adapt...

Or die.


R.

 

[Queen6]

That's easy for you to say...

Last night, while looking for a missing USB adapter for my tMBP, I tripped over my power cord. With no MagSafe, the cord sent me to the floor and the computer as well. My head hit the keyboard HARD and I lost consciousness. If not for the new LOUD keyboard sound, I likely would have died, but my wife easily heard it over the din of her blowdryer and got me to the ER.

So the missing MagSafe nearly killed me, but the loud keyboard saved me. One must take the bitter with the batter and adapt...

Or die.


R.

WOW if so hope head & keyboard are ok, or at least on the mend. Done similar with 12" rMB, only the connector has aways parted from the port, well so far

Q-6

 

[Sanpete]

I couldn't agree more with you... I do realize this is a Mac forum but the way some act makes you think (or at leat hope) they own a ton of Apple stock.. In that case I could understand the defending of Apple at any cost... If a ton of Apple stock is not owned, then the behavior is indeed very, very odd...

Most of that is only in your head. Very few here, if anyone, defend Apple at all costs. Rather you interpret any correction of your frequent false claims as defending Apple at all costs.

 

[CaptRB]

Most of that is only in your head. Very few here, if anyone, defend Apple at all costs. Rather you interpret any correction of your frequent false claims as defending Apple at all costs.

Consider this:

Why does a highly vocal minority feel compelled to repost the same negativity again and again?

It's NOT the same as posting positive experience. It's not accomplishing anything beyond upsetting the majority of happy owners. And when the negative posters are met with facts and experience, they become (at times) nasty.

These forums are open to all, but I question the mentality of people who feel that they need to rain on everyones parade on a daily basis. They're not getting anywhere and just muddying up a forum. Two people (posting currently I might add) were caught lying about owning the machines. It's really sad behavior.

Yes, I own the new machines. I have no major issues. They're the best from Apple to date and I expect them to evolve further. I buy the tools that work for me, avoid the ones that don't. What else is there to worry about?


R.

 

[Sanpete]

Consider this:

Why does a highly vocal minority feel compelled to repost the same negativity again and again?

It's NOT the same as posting positive experience. It's not accomplishing anything beyond upsetting the majority of happy owners. And when the negative posters are met with facts and experience, they become (at times) nasty.

These forums are open to all, but I question the mentality of people who feel that they need to rain on everyones parade on a daily basis. They're not getting anywhere and just muddying up a forum. Two people (posting currently I might add) were caught lying about owning the machines. It's really sad behavior.

Yes, I own the new machines. I have major issues. They're the best from Apple to date and I expect them to evolve further. I buy the tools that work for me, avoid the ones that don't. What else is there to worry about?


R.

I think they're angry at Apple for not building the machines the way they want, so they're lashing out, out of anger and possibly in the hope of influencing some change.

 

[Uofmtiger]

I think they're angry at Apple for not building the machines the way they want, so they're lashing out, out of anger and possibly in the hope of influencing some change

The stock price is up and their revenues are up. Yet, somehow Tim is going to read the same negative posts by the same people over and over again on MacRumors and suddenly learn the error of his ways? I doubt it.

“We’re thrilled to report that our holiday quarter results generated Apple’s highest quarterly revenue ever, and broke multiple records along the way. We sold more iPhones than ever before and set all-time revenue records for iPhone, Services, Mac and Apple Watch,” Apple CEO Tim Cook said in a statement.

I think it is perfectly fine to complain about what is missing in a thread focused on those issues like this one. However, littering almost every bit of news about Apple with unrelated complaints gets old.

 

[Sanpete]

The stock price is up and their revenues are up. Yet, somehow Tim is going to read the same negative posts by the same people over and over again on MacRumors and suddenly learn the error of his ways? I doubt it.

“We’re thrilled to report that our holiday quarter results generated Apple’s highest quarterly revenue ever, and broke multiple records along the way. We sold more iPhones than ever before and set all-time revenue records for iPhone, Services, Mac and Apple Watch,” Apple CEO Tim Cook said in a statement.


View attachment 687647

I think it is perfectly fine to complain about what is missing in a thread focused on those issues like this one. However, littering almost every bit of news about Apple with unrelated complaints gets old.

Yeah, I doubt it accomplishes much, but some of us are inclined to tilt at windmills. Interesting about Apple's sales.

 

[rutrack]

The stock price is up and their revenues are up. Yet, somehow Tim is going to read the same negative posts by the same people over and over again on MacRumors and suddenly learn the error of his ways? I doubt it.

“We’re thrilled to report that our holiday quarter results generated Apple’s highest quarterly revenue ever, and broke multiple records along the way. We sold more iPhones than ever before and set all-time revenue records for iPhone, Services, Mac and Apple Watch,” Apple CEO Tim Cook said in a statement.


View attachment 687647

I think it is perfectly fine to complain about what is missing in a thread focused on those issues like this one. However, littering almost every bit of news about Apple with unrelated complaints gets old.

I'd say you have to give it time, it is obvious with the release of new MacBook in in several years, new iPhone, problems with Samsung battery their revenue is going to skyrocket. I hope they have a better plan for the future, than making a laptop even thinner and remove the keyboard altogether.

 

[Sanpete]

remove the keyboard altogether.

Of course there's zero indication that's in their plans. They could do that today if they wanted it done.

I do hope they keep making it thinner and lighter, along with the numerous other improvements they typically make.

 

[CaptRB]

Of course there's zero indication that's in their plans. They could do that today.

The complaints here mean nothing to Apple. The forum is such a small fraction and a terrible way to gauge the relative success of a product. Apple is a bit more sophisticated than that.

The complaints that are repeated over and over almost daily by the same people are aimed SQUARELY at happy owners and potential buyers. It's obvious.

There's a guy, who claims to own the new Mac, who has made it his life-mission to enter virtually every thread where positive comments are made so he can tell everyone how unhappy he is. But most importantly, there's a huge lack of logic in the attacks and so they just end up being mean-spirited negative noise.

Point this out and they cry that you're attacking them or censuring them and so on.


R.

 

[Sanpete]

The complaints that are repeated over and over almost daily by the same people are aimed SQUARELY at happy owners and potential buyers. It's obvious.

They see happy owners who speak in favor of Apple or its new products as foot soldiers of the Dark One--they've more or less said so (in only slightly less colorful terms).

 

[Works4Me]

Well, just in case anyone is still reading this thread, for me it was mostly about price. Yes, the dongle issue bugs me, but I would have lived with it. However the fact that I saved about $700 bucks Canadian buying a refurb 2015 with similar specs was enough to make me pass on the 2016 version. There are some interesting features to be sure, but not enough to justify the price difference. Plus, it's not my only Mac. I spend most of my time working on a 27 inch iMac. So having the latest version of a laptop wasn't worth the price....

 

[Ardmanz]

I own a late 15" 2013 rMBP. I don't really need an upgrade (it's mostly used for music production) but I had the itch and I also want to play the odd game (not expecting ultra high 60 fps+) but the massive price hike and poor gfx card (I was hoping for a 1050 but I know that was very wishful thinking) put me off.

In the end I decided to keep my late 2013 and build a mid range gaming PC. It worked out cheaper than if I was to sell mine and buy an upgraded rMBP.

If the price had remained the same I probably would have bought one but I couldn't justify spending so much on what is a very minor spec bump (not interested in the touch bar at all).

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
A number of posts have been removed, as they were derailing the thread. Please stay on topic and remember to be respectful


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[playtech1]

I was one of those who was planning to upgrade, but balked at the price and some of the other issues with the new models. I instead happily went with a nearly new 2015 15inch MBP, so upgrading isn't on the horizon for a few years, but come 2018/19 there are definitely a few features which might tempt me.

In no particular order a combination of these might do it on the hardware side:

- 4G or 5G connectivity

- Substantially better battery life

- Reinstating a few features from my 2015 machine (a slick merger of USB-C and Magsafe would be brilliant)

- a better keyboard (I'm afraid I'm in the 'hate it' camp of the new keyboard)

- a touch screen

- Quad core and strong GPU in the 13 inch model

- Upgradeability (the better to justify the high up-front cost)

- If the Touch bar must stay, then haptic feedback

- Less noisy when under load

Perhaps most importantly, I would want some strong indications from Apple that they are taking the Mac range seriously, particularly in terms of software.