For Those Not Upgrading, What Could Apple Have Done to Convince You?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by MICHAELSD, Nov 14, 2016.

  1. MICHAELSD, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016

    MICHAELSD macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #1
    Believe me, I did want to upgrade this year. I was looking forward to Apple making me excited about the MacBook Pro again. The new MacBook Pro did just enough to be considered a new body style as happens about every four years, but not enough for me to justify a purchase just yet.

    2012's MacBook Pro was a beautiful must-upgrade piece of machinery. They introduced a Retina Display and improved upon the unibody design while providing cutting-edge hardware. This was a no-brainer upgrade for me, and finding it on-sale for a few hundred off a few weeks after it came out made it a worthwhile upgrade even if I barely netted $700 for my 2008 MacBook Pro. Now though, it still stands up with the best of the Mac lineup which is a positive in that I really don't need to upgrade. It's over 33% faster than a Core i7 base 13" MacBook Pro and twice as fast as a MacBook, while sporting a Retina Display with the same resolution as the new generation that the MacBook Air doesn't even (and probably won't ever) have.

    I wasn't looking for any unrealistic new features to make the leap to a new generation. An OLED display would have made me happy to upgrade. IGZO could've been satisfactory. I do think the improved display they did add is noticeably better and makes me want to upgrade more than anything else. However, it's not that much better that I'm going to go through the hassle of selling my MacBook Pro and spending $2,399 for it.

    The price isn't the issue though: it's that the value isn't high enough. Maybe if the base 15" came with 512GB of flash storage I could've justified it a bit more, but the base still comes with 256GB like it did four years ago.

    Even performance improvements are looking to be more moderate than expected; unfortunately, it certainly won't benchmark anywhere near twice as fast as my four-year-old MacBook Pro. The design looks nicer as expected though, and Space Grey works really well. While I'm sure I'd get enjoyment and use out of the Touch Bar, as a package deal it's just not enough for me to upgrade at a premium.

    For me to spend $2,399 I would have wanted an OLED Retina Display that's preferably 4K, the latest Intel Kaby Lake processors, and 512GB of flash storage. If we're not getting an OLED display for another four years, I'll probably sit these next few years out or move over to an iMac assuming it gets a full refresh relatively soon.

    I am still considering the new MacBook Pro, but it would be the 13" with an external display... which just doesn't make sense. In all honesty the iPhone and iPad are already portable computers, Apple should be focusing on the iMac and Mac Pro as much as the MacBook Pro.
     
  2. kave macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Location:
    Sweden
    #2
    A lower price might have lured me in earlier. Now I am awaiting reviews to see if the gfx performance really is slower on the 15" model as the specs suggest.
     
  3. NickPhamUK macrumors 6502

    NickPhamUK

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    #3
    After waiting for 3 years (yes, you can find me posting on the first page of Waiting for Skylake thread, but I digressed), I wanted to get myself a MBP 15". As soon as I saw the price during the Apple event, I thought for myself "no way I'm spending €2800 for this base model". Couple with the fact that it comes with Intel HD 530 which is probably half as fast as a HD 550/540 on the 13"... I can live with the lack of legacy ports (I don't even use HDMI/SD Card slot), MagSafe, and a glowing Apple logo... but not this. I mean, it's not entirely Apple's fault, Intel didn't release the models with Iris Pro 580 soon enough. But no way I'm going to spend that much money to contemplate UI lagfest.

    In the end, I saved myself €1000 and got the base 13" non TB (which I think is the only worthy model to buy on the basis of price/performance ratio), and build a desktop. With €1000 I can get GTX 1070 and i5-6700K, so more power for me at home.
     
  4. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    #4
    I share many of your thoughts. I pre-ordered so I could try one out side by side against my 2012 rmbp. My concern is that it will not be enough of an upgrade to justify the the price. Time will tell.
     
  5. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #5
    I've considered this but I'm concerned Apple will ban accounts for too many returns. I've only returned one iPhone 6s within the past few years, but I feel like each account will only get a certain amount of returns.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 14, 2016 ---
    Too bad because I'm considering a 13" Touch Bar MBP and a LG UltraFine display but I'm a bit concerned I'll end up returning both.
     
  6. Antairez macrumors regular

    Antairez

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    #6
    You have a discrete GPU for anything that the HD530 can't handle, which is way more powerful than HD540/550. Why should Intel waste money on quad core chips with high end iGpu when they know that for laptops big enough to stuff this monster in there will definitely be room for dedicated GPU?
     
  7. NickPhamUK macrumors 6502

    NickPhamUK

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    #7
    Unless you plan to turn on the Radeon Pro 24/7 to drive that 2880x1800 screen and hoping the UI doesn't lag.

    Uhm no.
     
  8. dallas112678 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    #8
    The general worry is general usage and pushing all of the pixels of the display. Sure, if you are doing FCPX then the dGPU will kick in. What about simply surfing the internet or swiping through applications? That could potentially be laggy because it will be handled by the iGPU and it has a lot of pixels to push.

    I noticed one thing for sure, when I went to the apple store, scrolling quickly through yahoo there was definitely stutters on the 13" (non touchbar, obviously) which has a much more powerful iGPU (again, this will most likely be used for general browsing) than the 15".

    As for answering this question. I would have bought the computer without hesitation if apple didn't decided to make a thin laptop even thinner thereby making it impossible to put a significantly more powerful GPU (GTX 1060) in there.
     
  9. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #9
    Part II:

    I think I just had the realization that I could be more productive with an iMac or a Mac Pro, and would be satisfied using an iPad or even just an iPhone for portable computing. I hate carrying a MBP around anyway. The MacBook Pro is Apple's most impressive all-around machine on paper, but the iMac and Mac Pro would be fine machines if they upgraded them this year :mad:.
     
  10. dallas112678 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    #10
    Well AMD just released their desktop Radeon Pro versions, so here's to hoping that means a new Mac Pro is in the works with the new graphics options.
     
  11. ugru, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016

    ugru macrumors 6502

    ugru

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Location:
    Caput Mundi
    #11
    • 200$/200€ cheaper along all the line
    • Magsafe
    • SD card reader
    • 1 USB A + 2 TB3
    • Better iGPU in the 13" (don't mind 2/3 hour less battery and same thickness as last year's)
    • Better dGPU in the 15" (don't mind 2/3 hour less battery and same thickness as last year's)
    I'd buy one today.
     
  12. MH01, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016

    MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    #12
    I've never heard of an account being banned for returns, in which case there would be huge backlash . You will be fine. I've returned plenty of apple products, also bought plenty.

    Apple is not going to use a customer like yourself over a laptop return.

    For that amount of money , you really need to try one .

    Also I believe they fall under the festive returns policy, so will be January . I'll confirm once I get mine .
    --- Post Merged, Nov 14, 2016 ---
    iMac all the way. The Mac Pro is so dated, I own one and would not recommend it over an iMac. Doubt the Mac Pro will continue
     
  13. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #13
    Mac Pro is admittedly overkill for most people, besides animators.

    As for returns, I'm confident if I were to buy a rMBP I could find it discounted so my likelihood of returning the one from Apple is high either way. MicroCenter is already discounting the new 13" base by $200.
     
  14. Antairez macrumors regular

    Antairez

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    #14
    There are many options out there, custom built PC or some crazy heavy gaming laptops out there, all with that juice and power. To be honest I still think laptops nowadays are way too heavy for my liking (I carry my laptop all the time day to day due to work), some people are used to the weight because they've been that heavy for the past decades. I believe engineers at Apple feel the same way as I do. There's no challenge for Apple to make a heavy laptop with GTX1070m. Just make the laptop sucks with battery life and as bulky as it can get so they won't throttle. Then why are people paying a premium for Apple products? Just for macOS? Apple's mission is never to include the strongest heat generator inside their "portable" machine, if that's what the working scenario dictates then get a desktop and be done with it. Their portable product lines has always been the aesthetic side of things, a laptop that is comfortable to use, with enough power to get you through your day to day drama. The display, the sound, the keyboard, the battery life, the weight, the casing .... I can go on forever. They didn't include the best spec out there as a compromise for all the things that I've just listed, yet people ignore all of that and bash the spec. I mean come on, we pay for the premium pricing so those engineers can find a perfect balance between industrial design and performance, if you really need more power for your work then respect your work and get a dedicated workstation. The product was designed for everyone, not only one.
     
  15. Stingray454 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    #15
    I'm using an iMac for work now, and a 2012 Air for travel/meeting. I'm using a lot of programs though and lots of files to keep track of - I feel it would be simpler to just use a MBP with external screen / keyboard / mouse as a workstation and bring that with me. Having just one computer for all my needs, not having to keep several in sync, would be really sweet.

    However, the current MBP is tremendously overpriced, and on top of that I'd need a nest of dongles for all the stuff I'm using with the computer. Total cost would be crazy (especially since I'm in Scandinavia - the top 15" is around $5200 here), add the cost for all the dongles, and I'd end up with a machine that is only slightly better, or in many areas worse, to what I've already got. Good looking? Yes. Convenient? Yes. Worth $6000:ish for a minor upgrade? Hell no.
     
  16. The Mercurian macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    #16
    No price hike and 32GB option. Simples
     
  17. MICHAELSD, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016

    MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #17
    Thanks to MH01 ;), I almost checked out with the standard 13" Touch Bar MacBook Pro. I figured if 13" isn't a match for me I could return it, and if I get comfortable with the system I might end up keeping it. Then I looked up benchmarks and realized the Core i5 included is 20% slower than what I have in my 2012 rMBP. I was thinking about going 13" this time around, but it seems senseless to me to buy a laptop that's slower just for a moderately improved display, which I do want, and design.

    Bottom line: four years later I shouldn't be paying almost what I paid for my 15" rMBP for a 13" with a slower processor and the same amount of RAM & flash memory just for a few new features.
     
  18. esk macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    #18
    I disagree with Apples current vision to make everything light and thin to a point where they sacrifice features and performance. The 2012 Retina Unibody was already so extremely slim and light. There was actually no need to slim it down even more.

    I would love a new MacBook with the 2008 Unibody design Blu ray drive and all ports. Cause I hate to travel with external drive and ports. Because the old unibody design wasn't as slim they could enhance the performance a lot.
     
  19. nbritton macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    #19
    At a minimum: 32GB ram, SD card slot, and at least one USB Type-A.

    What I really want: 32GB+ RAM, SD card slot, multiple USB Type-A and Type-C. Nvidia GTX 1080. Support for three 4K external monitors using DisplayPort, and DP MST support. User serviceable RAM and SSD.

    Additional: Fix Safari memory leaks.
     
  20. azntaiji macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    #20
    I'm still undecided on whether or not to purchase the new MBP, because of one thing: Touch bar. Not so sure I want this - I wish Apple would have given us two options for the 15" MBP - Touch Bar and no Touch Bar.

    So I'm either going new 15" w/ Touch Bar, or the 2015 15"...
     
  21. jerryk macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    #21
    I have a 2015 15" rMBP. The biggest things I am concerned about are the availability of TB-3 peripheral (docks, monitors, etc.), and thermal management. Until TB-3 docks are more common, and we know how well the new fan system works with the quad core CPU run at max clock speed for at least 30 minutes straight I will stay on the sidelines.

    I hope I can upgrade next year.
     
  22. nordique, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016

    nordique macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2014
    #22
    Cheaper price and at least a dongle in the box. at the very least. still need that USB A and HDMI support. USB C is the way forward, but not right now; USB A is still an incredibly important port.

    Price is the biggest factor however. In Canada, the prices are simply ridiculous for what one gets. There were no price drops on the older models (some went up in price slightly) and the tech is not worth the cost difference in terms of what the chipset brings you. I simply cannot justify spending that much for what we are getting, no matter how much I would like to own it in theory.

    And some sort of charge indicator. Loved that about magsafe more than the magnetic feature (which I also loved)
     
  23. carlob macrumors member

    carlob

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    #23
    I was thinking to upgrade from my 15" late 2013 MBP (maxed out BTO) but still unsure due to the fact that the machine is really overpriced. Then I read the Ars Technica review: "The other problem, and one that resonates for the rest of the PC industry, is that if you bought a MacBook Pro in 2013 or later there's really very little reason to consider a new MacBook Pro."

    Will reconsider next year.
     
  24. redheeler macrumors 603

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #24
    - More reasonable price
    - 16 GB on the 13" with Touch bar
    - Screen resolution bump, a 13" can have the same resolution as my current 15"
    - USB-A port + SD card slot, or at the very least a USB-C to USB-A adapter in the box
    - MagSafe USB-C port
    - Upgradable SSD

    So, definitely not a small list of things I wish Apple had done differently. Even for owners of the mid 2012 Retina, the 2016 is not a compelling buy.
     
  25. turbineseaplane macrumors 68030

    turbineseaplane

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    #25
    I hate the new laptop keyboards.

    The Magic Keyboard on a laptop, MagSafe of some kind and a mix of USB-C and a few useful legacy ports would have been more what I wanted. At least for a transition machine over the next few years.
     

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