Former Shake Product Designer: Apple Doesn't Care About Pro Market

[C. Alan]

I think $299 is steep for a consumer video editor, but competitive for a pro editor. I don't know who Apple is aiming at here, though. I suspect the consumer.

I use FCE quite a bit, as I am not a pro-editor. It works quite well for the short films I put together for my church. I can see FCPX being worth the $299 to me just to be able to get mult-cam editing (once it is enabled), and because I have a Mac Pro, because I would not have to wait on it to render anymore. So my my Pro-sumer perspecitve, yes, $299 is quite a good deal.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Just sounds like a bitter former Apple Employee. Ya shake was powerful but it was made for very top tier users. I'm sure sales were low and thats the reason it was canned. I would say to this guy.... blame your niche software company for allowing itself to be bought...

If they were going to just can it, they should have sold it off to someone that would continue it. Why buy something to just can it?

 

[LethalWolfe]

Just sounds like a bitter former Apple Employee. Ya shake was powerful but it was made for very top tier users. I'm sure sales were low and thats the reason it was canned. I would say to this guy.... blame your niche software company for allowing itself to be bought...

But Apple should've known that it was a high-end niche product not a low-end high volume product when they bought it. If Apple wanted a higher volume product w/more mass appeal why did they even acquire Nothing Real? That wold be like Ford acquiring Ferrari and then being disappointed that the people shopping for a $15,000 Ford weren't interested a $300,000 Ferrari.


Lethal

 

[scottwaugh]

Just sounds like a bitter former Apple Employee. Ya shake was powerful but it was made for very top tier users. I'm sure sales were low and thats the reason it was canned. I would say to this guy.... blame your niche software company for allowing itself to be bought...

I think MacRumors article mischaracterized the former Shake guy's blog (cherry picking quotes to an extent). If you go read the actual blog and its a good read:

http://digitalcomposting.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/x-vs-pro/

The guy actually doesn't come off sounding bitter at all (really, go read the actual blog, he thinks Apple did the right thing, for Apple). His point seems to be that Apple isn't a company that builds things by focusing on the corporate Pro's and then taking care of their ongoing needs. They are all about disruptive innovation (and leaving behind the old) and focusing on bringing that innovation to as big a market as possible.

In Apple's case for the redesign of Final Cut Pro they could have designed its requirements (designed the program) for the $1k + professional market (multi-user workflow where one of the main requirements would be to import FCP 7 projects without issues) or they could have designed its requirements for the much, much larger step up from iMovie ~$300 (Final Cut Express) Pro-sumer (high end consumers and single user Professionals) market. He also said that is exactly the choice (Pro-sumer) that they should have made for Apple (although he said its obvious Apple could have easily afforded to go for the multi-user Pro market if they wanted to - my input here, they just didn't choose to and you can tell by the things that were put in (iMovie project imports) and left out (Final Cut Pro 7 project imports).

As a observation, Apple is moving further and further away from its computer roots (where heavy duty corporate / professional products even had a place, which was always debatable) to where its going and its great - but you don't want to have your business depend on Apple focusing on your high end professional needs, cause that's not where Apple exists - and they can drop you at any time (not maliciously), cause your not part of their core focus, at all.

The $300 Final Cut Pro X (Final Cut Express) for the Pro-sumer or single professional is exactly where Apple exists (their top of the line). Its an awesome upgrade for the iMovie step up and Final Cut Express market.

The $1000+ Final Cut Studio that Movie Studio's use is not where Apple exists. Final Cut Pro X isn't a replacement for FCS (multi-user workflow pro's) and by looking at what's in it, you can tell it wasn't supposed to be. Unfortunately Apple isn't broadcasting this, they just are.

 

[Blu Reel]

Here's another thought about Apple's view of the future of Pro Apps, et al.

Did anyone pick up on the announcement that Keynote is available on both the iPhone and the Ipad now? And the key here is that you only have to buy it once and it will run on both? Add to that iCloud and Lion with the "ability" to work on a Keynote presentation at any stage of development from any platform (iPhone, iPad, desktop).

I'm hoping that Apple says that if I buy Keynote for my Mac, it'll also mean I'm getting it for my iPad and iPhone, too. I get that hope from their music licensing deal with iCloud. 1 license for the song to be played/stored on a finite number of devices. Just think, buy my app once and use it on my desktop, laptop, iPad, and iPhone.

Now we know Apple is planning on volume licensing with a min of 20 seats. I need to follow up on this, but a friend of mine installed Compressor on 2 machines and from installation appearances, he wasn't charged for the second installation. Waiting to see what shows up on the monthly statement. So to me, Apple could also implement the "family pack" again. And compressor does take advantage of idle network computers again.

Just a thought...

 

[MrMoore]

For some reason when I read the quote "Apple doesn't care about pro market", I imagined Kanye West saying it.

Anyway, on topic. I am not a professional. iMovie more than suits my needs, but I can see why people would be frustrated at Apple.

It seems Apple rather make more money from comsumer (and Pro-Consumers) that Professional. It is a shame. They should re-instate FC7 and Server and give a more detail roadplan.

 

[maclaptop]

I believe if we set aside the specifics of this product just for a moment. Take a step back and observe Apples' actions, not what rumors are floating about in the blogosphere or mainstream press or even what Apple or Jobs say for that matter, we see that there is a continued wholesale change in Apple as a company.

Good, bad, or otherwise, is all dependent on what you do for a living with Macs, or do for your own personal work or pleasure at home with their products. We all have a different set of priorities and desires. Apple in the overall scheme of things is focused on the one category that pulled them from the brink of extinction years ago, and that is entertainment devices for the consumer.

The iPod was a much greater success than even Apple anticipated and it provided an alternate path for their survival. They found themselves essentially locked out of the enterprise computer space after ignoring it for years. In a very short time the iPod rocketed to a level of success that could not be ignored by anyone that paid any attention at all to the digital music player space. It bought Apple breathing room as they huddled and discussed what they wanted for the company. The choice was obvious, it was entertainment.

Today we are witnessing the further push towards simplicity, towards an appliance like experience, and that in and of itself is not bad. In fact it's been wildly successful with those who are not enthusiasts, the average Jack and Jill that just want to be entertained, and look cool in the process.

As far as the computer side, no matter what we see in the way of new product, or what we hear. The fact is, when Apple dropped the word "computer" from the name of the company a few years ago, the handwriting was in indelible ink. Change was afoot and never again would Apple return to placing computers at the center of it's universe.

As recently as this year Jobs himself declared the end of the PC era.

The party is over, it's all a matter of cleaning up the remnants, and dumbing down the hardware they still make.

It's about reaping the rewards for leading the pack in music and smartphone sales. It's about the money, the power, the influence and a high profile existence for it's CEO. It's about pads, pods, and phones. Cloud rental and migration away from the desktop.

Celebrate the change, enjoy the fond memories, and look at alternative brands if you need a good computer for those who do the heavy lifting.

 

[element1108]

I still don't understand all the uproar. The fact that the product is new means that there will be a lot of missing features initially. Its like when the iPhone was first released. It lacked a huge number features that people wanted or needed, but the potential was there.

Why can't people keep using the old version until the new one is more mature?

This statement is completely ignorant. The individuals complaining have every right to complain. I'm a professional editor, although I do the majority of my work on AVID, my best projects were cut on FCP. The major problem I see right now is that apple PULLED all copies of FCS 3 from the shelves and supplying FCX as the replacement. So a company looking to grow right now that has committed it's business on apple's FCP line is now limited in that ability and will have to switch to AVID (very different file structure and media management). It's a big problem for them, so don't spew ignorance over these forums because someone (in a very different situation than you) is saying something that you don't like.

The way Apple handled it was terrible as well, they omitted ALL of these missing features at the NAB event (an industry standard tech show in Las Vegas for professionals). Sure it's coming, but when? And the wait is potential revenue lost for those who's income source is now up in the air.

12 years ago, programs like FCP sold apple computers. Apple didn't have the success in the ipod, ipad, itunes store, apps etc. Essentially apple grew out of innovation and the prestige associated with it's hardware/software being used by "high end" professional creative users. Apple seems to be moving away from the computer, I wouldnt' be surprised if the MAC PRO gets discontinued in the next year or so.

It's "business"...I get it, I'm just happy my skills set doesn't rely on FCP on it's own, otherwise I'd be more worried. Editing is 99.9% pacing, rhythm and the ability to TELL a story and 1% knowing a program. No professional editor will shy away from learning something new, inside a week...we've got it. It's the core issues, (granted those outside the professional would NEVER UNDERSTAND). I dont pretend to understand your job, don't under think ours (or those who complain).

Anyway I've rambled, apologize. FCX is a great prosumer product right now, I can't imagine any professional editor (Walter Murch and his praises of FC7) will say the same thing about FCX.

 

[Imhotep397]

Apple can't ignore certain market segments forever...

Steve Jobs is setting Apple up for a severe and potentially fatal bruising in the future. IF Apple loses half or more of it's "Pro" users of FCP Apple won't have any Studio support when Adobe and Avid decide to move away from Apple web video formats AGAIN, this happened between the 80's and 90's when Apple computers were cornered into only having Quark Express and Photoshop as Pro apps. Pushing Pro video users towards Adobe, Avid and others works against Apple's larger plan in the long run because so much high end video is streamed on the internet an it's expanding. Apple is already facing the prospect of having none of their products be able to use Youtube once Google switches it completely to Web M and that's HUGE.

Apple has no server strategy so should they lose their battle with HTC/Google/Android to clear 80% of the iPhone knock-offs out of the market the IPhone/iPad won't be unique products for as long as their product cycles last. There's no ingenuous server side hardware/software from Apple that would make Apple's consumer products indispensable to content creators/deliverers, so I would expect developers will eventually move away from Apple and towards Android since it has the largest market share.

If Apple went after the server business (hardware and software) like they've gone after the consumer business and after the Professional Cinema/Video editing business they would be better equipped to protect all of their other investments in the future. Even though I'm no fan a Microsoft they understand that very critical component.

These two areas Server/Cinema, TV are CRITICAL to Apple's future success and they're linked at the hip now so it's not like afford to ignore either permanently if they want to avoid obsolescence in the future.

 

[SkyStudios]

Pro market is over guys, apple sells portable tablets now, computers are that fast

 

[maclaptop]

Many "reviews" seem to indicate that some folks were spending more time looking for stuff that was missing than actually trying to learn and use the product. That is not the behavior of a real pro, IMHO. All of these "reviews" that popped up in less than 6-7 hours were amateur. Many of those folks were searching for a conclusion they had already conceived. Trotting out the list of features not implemented yet is only scaffolding to support what they wanted to find. If it wasn't these listed elements it would be something else.


http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/professional-video-editors-weigh-in-on-final-cut-pro-x/

For those of us who know our Apple history well, and are true Apple enthusiasts, know that sadly, David Pogue is a (paid under the table) Apple Promoter, Apologist, and one of the very first and only "reporters" to get advance hands on experience with many of Apples new products, both hardware and software.

Witness the fact that he was the only one (other than the Gizmodo situation) to get his hands on and be "officially blessed by Apple's dictator" to test an iPhone 4 in advance if it's official introduction.

This fact, from my perspective neuters their credibility.

Let's be honest, this is a very high stakes game with billions in hanging in the balance, and no one is better at marketing, maneuvering and manipulating the public's perception through "leaks" and other tactics than Apple.

Under the "guise of an expert" just because David works at the Wall Street Journal with Apple's Other Mouthpiece Walt Mossberg, these two were hand picked and groomed personally by Steven Jobs, many years ago to write glowing reviews of each and every Apple product.

Witness the fact that in the majority of cases, the "breaking news" seems to always come from the frequently quoted "All Things Digital" their in house Apple rag.

To quote either of these two is to make yet one more attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of anyone who DARE think for themselves.

Neither of these "Experts" are open minded and fair, but rather highly biased in favor of Apple, the company that curiously seems to "take such good care of them" all under the table, and carefully concealed from the public via Pentagon level encryption and security.

That said, I give Apple a lot of credit for being so clever, and pulling this off year after year, it's made Apple famous, sold an incredible amount of product, and painted an exemplary picture of a company in Cupertino that can do no wrong.

Do NOT get me wrong, I'm a huge Apple enthusiast with tens of thousands of dollars of their product that I truly enjoy, like the new MacBook Pro I am writing this on.

Yet that said, I'm an even bigger supporter of The Truth...

Finally, I can only imagine how much MORE MONEY Apple would make without employing these antics.

How many less people would share my disdain for their corrupt tactics, that cause Apple to be such a polarizing company.

All one has to do is read what's out there in the blogosphere, and other areas of the net, to know that I am not alone when it comes to despising Apples hypocrisy, elitist attitude, ego centric ways, and "I know what's better for you... than you do" CEO.

Apple could be far better than this, there is no reason why not.

They could be the classy premier company they pretend to be.

Their products are So Good, they make billions. After all they are the premier company at what they do. I have first hand experience dating back to the days of System 7.

So why not do it the right way, instead of acting like the average corrupt American corporation?

The reason I write this is because I care, and it really irritates me to see Apple fall into the same trap of ultimate greed, as they grow into a near monopoly.

If I didn't care I wouldn't waste my time. It's as simple as that.

 

[colourfastt]

For some reason when I read the quote "Apple doesn't care about pro market", I imagined Kanye West saying it.

Anyway, on topic. I am not a professional. iMovie more than suits my needs, but I can see why people would be frustrated at Apple.

It seems Apple rather make more money from comsumer (and Pro-Consumers) that Professional. It is a shame. They should re-instate FC7 and Server and give a more detail roadplan.

With the release of iOS and Lion, it seems that Apple is less interested in Joe Blow than Joe Kindergartener.

 

[LethalWolfe]

For those of us who know our Apple history well, and are true Apple enthusiasts, know that sadly, David Pogue is a (paid under the table) Apple Promoter, Apologist, and one of the very first and only "reporters" to get advance hands on experience with many of Apples new products, both hardware and software.

I agree that Pogue isn't the most unbiased source so it's even more telling that a few days after FCP 10 launched even he said that Apple dropped the ball.


Lethal

 

[SkyStudios]

I'm pretty good with my apple history, spent time in silicon valley and lived in SF a bit in the 90s, I say nothing taking place now could of been imagined or can be compared, most of it has to do with the desperate Pick up after permanent falure of our country with it's foreign policy and collapse of the economy due to greed., while anyone can blame a fall of anything so easily no one can deny what's taking place anyway is far far from comparison to anything apple has done in it's history., future looks UN stable if you ask me.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

It's not just Apple. ALL corporations are getting greedier. I think it's a product of this so-called "global market". OTOH, Republicans and Tea Party people seem more polarized and extremist than ever, so it shouldn't be surprising that the greed is greater than ever as well.

 

[SkyStudios]

It's not just Apple. ALL corporations are getting greedier. I think it's a product of this so-called "global market". OTOH, Republicans and Tea Party people seem more polarized and extremist than ever, so it shouldn't be surprising that the greed is greater than ever as well.

Oh I was not saying apple was greedy, but maybe share holders, other institutions and branches, we are all about to face a complete turn around in our way of life, at least computers can help in areas to sort things out, but we have some crazy people out their.