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Former Shake Product Designer: Apple Doesn't Care About Pro Market

RebootD said:
Adding a bunch of iOS fluff is my justification for calling it 'more consumery'. We already have Expose, Spaces and a wonderful dock, launchpad and all that is just more gimmicky fluff to get the kids to say "WOW!".
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But it's basically only the application launching mechanism that is similar in any way, which you can ignore and use finder and the Application folder as usual if you want. I guess you base your opinion on screenshots on the internet or are you part of the developer beta program?

RebootD said:
And the Windows quote can be replaced with "X" that provides more affordable solutions (or a quad tower that doesn't start at $1k over retail of other machines) and no a glossy iMac is not an option.
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But affordable is more of a consumer concern, IMO.
 
ideas should always be bigger then your tools... imagine if the person who invented the wheel gave up, because he didn't have the right "tool" or how about the first airplane with the wright brothers, ideas trump all that my friend......
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Wax eloquent all you want, it doesn't change the fact that if a tool doesn't do what you need it to do, it's not the tool for you. A client needs something a certain way, you don't say "Nah, you don't need it that way" because the client goes to where they get it that way.
 
chagryph said:
If Apple didn't want to do anything with the Pro market then they shouldn't have bought Shake, Logic, FCP and shouldn't have created servers and MacPros and other Pro software and hardware. If you are not interested in something then why even start? Oh, wait... it makes perfect sense. They bought all those companies or products so they can kill them and have less competition to deal with.

Now it makes perfect sense.
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:apple: is becoming M$, but with shinier toys.

Someone is gonna pop up to fill the void :apple: is creating at the high end. I heard that ILM wrote most of the used at their studio. I guess I should buy Lucasfilm stocks.:p
 
PeterQVenkman said:
"Affordable" is a concern of any business trying to make a profit, especially in this crummy economy.
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In an absolute sense of course, but if you would give that attribute to one particular group it's more of a concern among consumers. But how is $299 for a video editing solution not affordable?
 
Matte screens is also an option on both 15 and 17" macbook pro's and have been for quite some time.
 
northernmunky said:
"Everything just changed on post"

..yeah, we all just switched to Avid.
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I find this funny as Avid historically have also shafted their customers between major versions. Like in: your old equipment is now worthless, you need to start from scratch and buy everything again from us.
 
Any hardware concerns?

Since Apple will not refresh any more hardware until after Lion is shipping, I am wondering how this will affect users of FCP7. Will FCP7 be able to be installed on a Mac using Lion? If not, will Apple make it so Snow Leopard can be installed on the new Macs? I would hate to be in a position where my Mac has a hardware failure and Apple replaces it with one using Lion and I cannot install FCP7 to earn my living.
 
nuckinfutz said:
The modern day professional is changing..the days of 6 PCI slots have been gone a long time ago replaced by highly integrated motherboards.

Prepare to be brought into the future kicking and screaming by Apple....once again.
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This comment highlights the biggest divide between the "pros" and "amateurs" attitudes. Apple does not lead me anywhere, my clients do! It's my clients demands that drive my creativity, not Steve Jobs whims, and what FCPX gives me is not what my clients are asking for, and takes away things they are. What apple makes is just a tool to help me make give my clients the best possible product, and the new FC limits my options to do that. Not just with the missing features, which are fundament for my clients (regardless of what Apple thinks tapes support will be needed far into the future), but with the workflow options within the program. It's just too limiting.

Ever since FCS 2 came out a group of us that go to lunch regularly have been thinking on what Apple could do with a future program, and what we all came up with was something more like a baby Avid DS. And editing software that would have the compositor and color corrector fully integrated within the editing interface but each with it's own separate functions. Kinda like how Color had rooms for each workflow, but within FC. Sure there is a CC in FCPX, but it's a simpletons CC compared to the tools Color gave us. I even thought that working in the effects tree as an option in FC, like shake had would be great.

But Apple didn't got that route. They tried to make the options more "simple". Well as someone pointed out on another thread, complexity is freedom. apple has taken away a lot of freedom for the editor within the program, freedom to customize the interface for specific task for instance, and freedom to change up workflows to complete a task.

Creativity is not a top down affair. Artist need more tools, not simpler ones, to expand on their ideas. Sure a good editor could cut a movie in imovie, but if he used that program for his whole career, all his movies would end up looking kinda the same. It just doesn't give you many options, and neither does FCPX.
 
Guess it was a good idea to upgrade FCPX to the $995.- crossgrade from AVID for Mediacomposer 5.5 then. As an old time AVId user FCP's workflow sometimes annoyed the $%^& out of me so curious to see if I can re-enter AVID space and like it as much as I did the first time.

If it does work out, building a dirt cheap Windows 7 powerhouse PC might even be fun. Too bad automatic duck is not pat of the 29.99 appstore package.


EDIT:
Ok just did a quick build to order PC thingy omn a cheap PC webshop and it turned out $800 then my Mac Pro.... so much for dirt cheap PC powerhouses.
 
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Bubba Satori said:
That should be nominated for a Nobel Prize for arrogance and delusional thinking. :rolleyes:

How insufferably pompous.

No, rational adult customers will not be "brought into the future kicking and screaming by Apple."

They will go where they are not treated like brain dead iDrones.
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I would just suggest ignoring his comments at this stage. It's pretty clear that he's under the impression that Apple Inc is heaven and Steve Jobs is God.
 
Never forget where you came from. Sure business is great now. The real question is for how long? I'm not against making products for the 90% but just don't desert your loyal long term followers. They rely on you as well.
 
silentnite said:
Never forget where you came from. Sure business is great now. The real question is for how long? I'm not against making products for the 90% but just don't desert your loyal long term followers. They rely on you as well.
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Deserting goes both ways, ask Commodore.
With FCPX the door has never been this open for anyone to walk out and leave this workflow behind. I know one TV station that is not happy, they just switched their entire AVID unity workflow to FCP because it was going to be the most cost effective long term solution.

They got their entire archive on tape only, well nobody said FCP7 is going to be switched off any time soon but still, can't be fun if you just dumped all the PC and NAS solutions to switch to Apple only to find out it is a dead end and only the gold coins collected along the way can get you to the next level, but not without dropping all the goodies you collected before.

FCPX is still cute though, def. gonna use it for my home movies fur sure!
 
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It looks like FCPX is the final nail in the coffin for Apple's pro market. I now would not be surprised if the Mac Pro gets dropped next.
 
It's happening throughout...

I love progress, but then again I hate progress when it stifles mine. We're are seeing this throughout the Apple range, From FCProX through to Mobile Me with no consideration for the function of the product, nor what it used it for.

Ironically, Apple seem to be doing this to product ranges that people are paying good money for and would continue to pay good money for... but are removing the exact things people WANT to pay for

Strange
 
Apple doesn't care

Well this sucks but we knew this, right? I am one of the "pros" that people talk about, I'm in the film music industry.
What Apple and Steve conveniently forget is that it has been us PROS who have been Apple evangelists for the last 25 years. We have helped build this company to what it is today. I personally have converted more people than I can count over to Apple.
Seems really short-sighted to me, it's a pittance of money to Apple to keep the goodwill of the top users.
Not digging this direction, and I'm an Apple lover since 1984.

:mad:
 
Oh I'm gong for Avid MC 5.5 on my Mac Pro and 30" screens? Better get a HP, they are fantastic. But for true color you can't beat Eizo (cue screen nerd) Besides mah 12 core Mac Pro can run Windows 7 very well :cool: and when looking at fibre or any pro IO solution, not a big price diff. So the real question is: what OS do you prefer, not what NLE.. well not if you can't be bothered with FCP anyway.

CameramanDK said:
You seem to forget, ignore or maybe never thought about: The software license for FC Studio is only a small percentage of the investment in an edit suite. Hardware, storage, backup, network etc. is where the dollars are spent in 10.000s - even 100.000s.

With no support for FCS you have to rethink and soon rebuild your infrastructure and workflow. To me its a waste of time and money, only good thing is that a white MacBook or an iPad/iPhone is all Ill ever buy from Apple again. And I was close to getting a new Mac Pro + 30" screen - no reason to do ever. So Apple could have sold me not only the cheap app but also + $10.000 new hardware if.... but they missed the chance.

I would never use Apples 30" to view and check color, focus etc., but from now I cant use any proper monitor. Cant show my clients (who pays my bills) a decent picture...??? As a cameraman this is a dealbraker and theres no workaround.

Was also investing in hardware to record video on hard drives in ProRes 422. Now Im looking for other options because it wont be cut on Final Cut!

Bye bye Apple
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What if Apple made cars?

Apple buys Chrysler and immediately kills their entire product line, only to replace it with the all new Apple Car Pro X

The new Apple Car Pro X has the following features:

1. iStart: No more having to lug around a bunch of keys. The iStart is a green technology that replaces the wasteful starter motor with a completely new paradyme

2. Sleek new back end style: We've created a great new design that saves space and weight, plus it improves airflow over the back end of the car in a much more efficient manner.

3. All new driver UI: The all new steering system eliminates the ungainly steering wheel, while at the same time allowing the driver unprecedented freedom of movement.

4. iGas Station: Now your Apple Car Pro X can fill up automatically using your iTunes account at any iGas station. Gas is $.99 per gallon, $1.29 for hi-test. Plus oil changes and regular maintenance are accomplished automatically.
----------------------
Three days after launch, we find the grim realities:
1. They've replaced the keys and starter with an arm-breaking crank.
2. There's no trunk, and no means to attach a trailer hitch or roof rack.
3. They've replaced the steering wheel with a tiller. The "unprecedented" freedom of motion really means that the driver has to move around a lot to make room for the tiller to swing about.
4. No other fuel but iGas will work in the car, and it stops working if you don't agree to the terms of service.
5. If you want more than one person to use the car, you have to de-authorize it using your Apple ID and re-authorize it using the new person's Apple ID. This will result in any previously loaded iGas in the car immediately being dumped onto the ground, because it wasn't purchased with the new user's account.
6. All car sales are final, even if the car is smashed beyond recognition while it is being delivered to your home.

Apple's response: This is a great new car. Some people, especially high end users, have noticed some small issues. These issues affect only about 1% of our users, and Apple has heard their voices.

1. A few users have found issues with the iStart. We advise them to hold the iStart differently and let go as soon as the engine catches.
2. Some people have asked us if we plan to restore the storage space formerly found in the trunk. You can still move large objects. If you need to move something that won't fit into the passenger compartment, third party transit services from FedEx and UPS may be used.

Steve Job's terse email responses to user' emails:
"The trunk's gone, nobody uses them anymore anyway, so get over it."
"Hold the iStart correctly and you won;t break your arm."
 
subsonix said:
In an absolute sense of course, but if you would give that attribute to one particular group it's more of a concern among consumers.
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Absolutely. Did Final Cut Express used to cost $300? I can't remember.

But how is $299 for a video editing solution not affordable?
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I think $299 is steep for a consumer video editor, but competitive for a pro editor. I don't know who Apple is aiming at here, though. I suspect the consumer.
 
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