Fortnite and Epic Games Store Submitted to Apple for iOS Launch in EU

[spazzcat]

That's missing the point. It's not about "NOT HAVING", it's about what it costs. Having choices of where to get software generally leads to lower cost software. The apps will be exactly the same apps. What they can do for people will be exactly the same. EU people will likely pay less for some of them.

App prices will not go down, if anything they will go up.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Apple allows 3rd party retailers to discount their products. They operate very similar to high end clothing brands. You will never see a sale in their first party stores and boutiques but they allow stores like Bloomingdales to offer sales. A lot of sales prices are set by the manufacturer and not the retail stores themselves except when it’s a liquidation sale.

The point is that when there is more than one "store" (one SOURCE of things consumers want to buy), there is competition to woo the transaction... often in pricing and/or value-added bonuses. Competition makes that happen. If the ONLY place to get Apple stuff was Apple, only Apple pricing would be available to buyers.

Best Buy, Amazon, etc want to move inventory... so they sweeten the pot vs the very same offering from Apple direct. Consumers then can shop around for the SAME product and get some added value and/or lower prices. Shopping around for the same product is what makes this work for consumers.

 

[surferfb]

Greedy bakers don’t let me buy a cake to look at and eat it. Instead they’re demanding that I buy two cakes, one to eat and one to look at it. The EU should do something!

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Greedy bakers don’t let me buy a cake to look at and eat it. Instead they’re demanding that I buy two cakes, one to eat and one to look at it. The EU should do something!

Silly example, but I'll play along. You aren't allowed to put whipped cream on your cake because the baker said no, unless you buy it from them.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

App prices will not go down, if anything they will go up.

Let's watch & see. History says robust competition always drives down prices vs. "company store" arrangements where consumers are pretty much always exploited. Pick any story where there was once only one store serving a market and you'll likely read a story about high prices... until a new competitor moves into the area and then prices- via competition- start working their way DOWN. Bring several competitors into an area and robust competition will work prices down dramatically vs. the old "company store" pricing when there was no competition.

However, I'll accept the possibility. Time will test both concepts and show how this will play out.

One thing I don't see much of in ALL of this kind of thread: EU Apple people thoroughly ripping these laws. THEY elected the officials who made the laws and they can boot them if they don't like these laws. The vast majority of those most unhappy with these laws seem to NOT be in the EU. If anyone has a case for gripe-a-rama or not, it would seem to be the people who are actually affected by these laws. The rest of us are subject to "business as usual", one source of apps, one source of app pricing, etc. These laws do not apply to the rest of us.

And if they prove to be the security disaster, etc that so many of us spin, the rest of the nations on Earth will notice the disaster of these laws and not adopt them. Time will prove that too. It's already been nearly 4 months and I've not yet seen ONE story of any kind of security event. These evil crime syndicates & terrorist organizations must be very patient in emptying them bank accounts, etc.

 

[surferfb]

Silly example, but I'll play along. You aren't allowed to put whipped cream on your cake because the baker said no, unless you buy it from them.

More like, the baker thinks whipped cream makes the cake worse, so won’t sell you a cake with whipped cream, and instead tells you the baker across the street will sell you a cake with whipped cream. You decide to have the government force the first baker to sell a cake with whipped cream instead of just going across the street, because you like the first baker’s cakes better.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

More like, the baker thinks whipped cream makes the cake worse, so won’t sell you a cake with whipped cream, and instead tells you the baker across the street will sell you a cake with whipped cream. You decide to have the government force the first baker to sell a cake with whipped cream instead of just going across the street, because you like the first baker’s cakes better.

One more. Let me buy the whip cream wherever I want, from whomever I want. It should be none of the bakers business if I buy whip cream as they would just the middleman.

Apple doesn't need to be involved in app purchases for my device, except when I decide they should be. After the sale of the device, the App Store is a middleman. I want less middlemen, not more.

I bought my car, new, from the dealer, and I have never been back (other than a recall, which was free), yet I still buy tires, services, aftermarkets mods, fuel, oil, filters, etc.. I should be able to do the same with my iPhone. Why is that the case? Because the US government, via law, says I should be able to take my car where I wish. In addition, another party fixing it can't even void the warranty (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act), unless the fix actively damages the vehicle.

 

[steve09090]

Silly example, but I'll play along. You aren't allowed to put whipped cream on your cake because the baker said no, unless you buy it from them.

The point is, Apple do exactly the same as others. But you are willing to accept their decision, just not Apple. As I mentioned earlier. You can change the software of an automobile, and only upgrade it if you have a licence, such as a registered repairer can only get, the same for a washing machine, or coffee machine or pretty much any proprietary hardware that runs on software.

You can’t put Tesla software on your VW even if that’s what you would like to do because you own the car. I can’t put Garmin software on my TomTom based Subaru Sat Nav, and neither can you.

 

[Janschi]

App prices will not go down, if anything they will go up.

This!

I mean we have to pay 1,50€ (1,61 USD) plus tax for AltStore in the EU, while people outside the EU can download Delta for free. Since the AltStore launch not a single new app was added and the only other App you could download besides Delta was paywalled via a Patreon donation.

I subscribed for funsies to see if new apps will be published, but also immediately cancelled after subscribing.

 

[I7guy]

Didn't have to: no competition. Developer could simply pocket more of the revenue on THEIR app creation.

Introduce competition though and there will be competitive pricing. It only works that way when one can get the same "anything" from more than one place.

There will never be competition because these apps are copyrighted works.

 

[spazzcat]

Let's watch & see. History says robust competition always drives down prices vs. "company store" arrangements where consumers are pretty much always exploited. Pick any story where there was once only one store serving a market and you'll likely read a story about high prices... until a new competitor moves into the area and then prices- via competition- start working their way DOWN. Bring several competitors into an area and robust competition will work prices down dramatically vs. the old "company store" pricing when there was no competition.

However, I'll accept the possibility. Time will test both concepts and show how this will play out.

One thing I don't see much of in ALL of this kind of thread: EU Apple people thoroughly ripping these laws. THEY elected the officials who made the laws and they can boot them if they don't like these laws. The vast majority of those most unhappy with these laws seem to NOT be in the EU. If anyone has a case for gripe-a-rama or not, it would seem to be the people who are actually affected by these laws. The rest of us are subject to "business as usual", one source of apps, one source of app pricing, etc. These laws do not apply to the rest of us.

And if they prove to be the security disaster, etc that so many of us spin, the rest of the nations on Earth will notice the disaster of these laws and not adopt them. Time will prove that too. It's already been nearly 4 months and I've not yet seen ONE story of any kind of security event. These evil crime syndicates & terrorist organizations must be very patient in emptying them bank accounts, etc.

What you haven't realized there's just the appearance of competition. Developers are going to incur a lot of costs that Apple was covering with their fees. Those fees and costs will be passed on to you.

 

[strongy]

That's missing the point. It's not about "NOT HAVING", it's about what it costs. Having choices of where to get software generally leads to lower cost software. The apps will be exactly the same apps. What they can do for people will be exactly the same. EU people will likely pay less for some of them.

actually the people in the eu are paying more look at the emulator app on its own store that costs a subscription but for the rest of the world its free

 

[WarmWinterHat]

actually the people in the eu are paying more look at the emulator app on its own store that costs a subscription but for the rest of the world its free

Apple doesn't allow an app to be offered their App Store and an alternative App Store at the same time in the EU. Relax that rule and we'll see.

Let's check this out in a year. Japan now requires alternative app stores, too. India is considering similar rules.

Pretty soon, the US will be the only major country left without them.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

What you haven't realized there's just the appearance of competition. Developers are going to incur a lot of costs that Apple was covering with their fees. Those fees and costs will be passed on to you.

First, it won't be passed to me because I'm not in the EU.

But second, let's see it happen. Speculation is easy and disaster speculation is very easy: see how the EU "forcing" USB-C onto iPhones was going to result in wobbly, broken tongues, lint magnet issues galore. Where'd all that "wolf! wolf!" go? Time is going to prove all gripes out or not... just like it did (or did not) with that USB-C change.

I have several decades on this planet. When competition is facilitated, my observations is that prices go DOWN. In fact, I can't think of a SINGLE example where there was a lone "company store" situation, competition came in and prices went up.

If Developers can put their Mac app on their website to sell direct to us Mac people and not be drowned in costs "that Apple was covering in fees," I'm not seeing how this is different. It works fine on our Macs. It should work fine on iDevices. Our friends in the EU will prove this out or not in time.

 

[strongy]

Apple doesn't allow an app to be offered their App Store and an alternative App Store at the same time in the EU. Relax that rule and we'll see.

Let's check this out in a year. Japan now requires alternative app stores, too. India is considering similar rules.

Pretty soon, the US will be the only major country left without them.

look at you just glazing over the fact he charges a subscription fee instead of giving it away for FREE its because he knows he can now rip off people in the EU

 

[Manzanito]

Some folks seem to be taking personal issue with the fact that other people living on another region of the world now can install an app they may like but is produced by someone who didn’t play along with Tim Cook.

Why do you even care? Enjoy your iPhone. I’m sure enjoying mine, even if now I can install third party app stores, I don’t plan on doing that, but I’m happy for the people who’ve been waiting to do so and finally can.

 

[I7guy]

Apple MAKES Macs.[…]

Two different environments. It’s a logical fallacy to compare both environments as if they were identical.

Check Apple Mac pricing vs. weekly sales on Macs from entities like Best Buy or Amazon. Even if a third party can't cut the price vs. Apple, they can pile on some value-added extras to sweeten the deal to buy from them vs. Apple. That's competition at work. It works FOR consumers.

The proof is visible on this website every approx. THU/FRI... when the article runs about "best pricing ever on these Apple products" compared to the same offerings from Apple.

If I'm an app developer in the EU:

1. I certainly WILL create my own store on my website- exactly as most do with Mac apps. Why? If people opt to buy from me, I get the first 15%-30% Apple will otherwise take. I coded that app. Do I not deserve first bite "off the top" as the creator?
2. If I can include my app in other stores, I'll get it in them too... because exposure there means more opportunities for buyers to discover my app and buy. Some buyers may never visit my website, but by being "there" too, they can discover my app.
3. If I am approached by those "X apps for only $Y" software bundle marketers, I probably participate in those too, hoping to reach even more people and them making my money later on the next version (upgrade). A number of great apps on my own Macs landed there via one of these kind of bundles... after which I've since upgraded up to several times on the developers website. I'm not sure I would have ever even tried some of these apps if they didn't come in one of those bundles. AND
4. I'll keep my app in the Apple store too because the world is thoroughly programmed to get iDevice apps from that store... and I don't want to shoot myself in the revenue foot by yanking my app from the "main" store even if it will cost me 15%-30% for each transaction done there.

Sellers want to be where buyers are... EVERYWHERE there are buyers. Most app buyers- even in the EU- will continue to be in the Apple App Store. Anyone yanking their app from that store will feel the revenue hit by NOT being where most app shoppers shop. Some of us have this vision of some kind of mass exodus of apps... but- IMO- that will generally be short-lived at best... as they'll miss the easy revenue of being in the "main" store very quickly and get their app back in there ASAP... even though they can make more profit on each app transaction by direct selling it from their own website.

 

[q64ceo]

You can always go buy an android device that allows you the option to install 3rd party stores if that feature is so important to you. People buy apple devices knowing that it isn’t an option.

I want an iPhone with the ability to install whatever program I want on it. Like a Mac does.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

look at you just glazing over the fact he charges a subscription fee instead of giving it away for FREE its because he knows he can now rip off people in the EU

Of course he charges one. Look at you glazing over Apple charging the alternative store for every single individual install, per device (and update) even if they never use the app.

...which the EU has decided is against the rules (to charge per install and update).

 

[I7guy]

Competition between stores, such as WalMart vs. Target.

For different goods. I guess Andes could sell the same app in multiple store and we’ll see how that goes. But my gut says the dev is the winner and not the consumer.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Two different environments. It’s a logical fallacy to compare both environments as if they were identical.

Time will tell and all of the complaining in the world is not going to change whatever is going to result from these laws. This cat is out of the bag. If it will result in:

• disaster, the world can watch the EU be destroyed in the disaster... and not make the same mistakes.
• something better, the world can watch the EU enjoy being first to the "better..." and perhaps adopt similar things for the benefit of their consumers.

In a sense, the EU is an isolated "test cell" to prove out all of the certain doom or new consumer benefits to result from these laws already in place and in effect. Apple is choosing to comply. Our EU friends will either be destroyed/harmed/etc or not. Time will reveal all.

My own guess is that this will be just as much as an EU-"forced" disaster as "making" iPhones adopt USB-C vs. Lightning. 500 threads proclaiming the certain disaster of that seemed to completely miss the actual outcome: no wobbly, no broken tongues, still have lint in our pockets, etc. The difference between that "wolf! wolf!" and this one is that that one has now had too much time to keep spinning the certain disaster of adopting USB-C... which this one is still new enough that there's some room to keep crying "Wolf!" But time is ticking fast and nearly 4 months of these laws is already behind us. I wonder if 6 months of no consequence will be the point where we stop spinning security... or 9 months or 12 this coming Spring? TBD. I see very little of the USB-C disaster posts anymore. So these seem "on deck."

 

[strongy]

Of course he charges one. Look at you glazing over Apple charging the alternative store for every single individual install, per device (and update) even if they never use the app.

...which the EU has decided is against the rules (to charge per install and update).

you can't seem to accept that fact that you prices in the EU are going UP not down but that's ok we forgive you

 

[WarmWinterHat]

you can't seem to accept that fact that you prices in the EU are going UP not down but that's ok we forgive you

I don't personally care about the prices. I care about personal freedom over corporate ideology and profit.

I'd pay double the price of my phone if it was fully open.

 

[steve09090]

look at you just glazing over the fact he charges a subscription fee instead of giving it away for FREE its because he knows he can now rip off people in the EU

There is a lot of glazing over facts here. Just like people bringing up the point that Apple should allow access to change the software and provide the tools even though they know nobody else does it. Some people are just complaining for the sake.

Of course he charges one. Look at you glazing over Apple charging the alternative store for every single individual install, per device (and update) even if they never use the app.

...which the EU has decided is against the rules (to charge per install and update).

I can download any paid app and not use it. Your point being?

I don't personally care about the prices. I care about personal freedom over corporate ideology and profit.

But not enough to be consistent with your apparent view? It’s not just Apple. It is everyone.

If an Alt App Store charges to access to an App Store, surely that is wrong.

 

[turbineseaplane]

People’s lives will be ruined, jobs lost, personal wealth disappear…

You describing crypto and AI