tenthousandthings
Contributor
Heh-heh, I thought you meant iMac Plus, since it’s also been ten years since the 5K iMac was introduced!
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Found M4 and M5 Mac identifiers
- Thread starter Jamie I
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'M4 Extreme' Chip Unlikely After Apple 'Cancels' High-Performance Chip [Updated]
Apple this "past summer" canceled the development of a high-performance Mac chip that would have consisted of four smaller chips stitched...
www.macrumors.com
@altaic's M4 list from the other place which he got from diving into firmware which has been confirmed for all but one device (16,9 still unconfirmed but with Macrumors agreeing that 16,12 and 16,13 are the Airs) at this point:
M4 Macs
Mac16,1 MBP 14” M4
Mac16,2 iMac 24” M4 (2-port)
Mac16,3 iMac 24” M4 (4-port)
Mac16,4 DNE
Mac16,5 MBP 16” M4 Max (384b & 512b)
Mac16,6 MBP 14” M4 Max (384b & 512b)
Mac16,7 MBP 16” M4 Pro
Mac16,8 MBP 14” M4 Pro
Mac16,9 Mac Studio M4 Max
Mac16,10 Mac mini M4
Mac16,11 Mac mini M4 Pro
Mac16,12 MBA 13” M4
Mac16,13 MBA 15” M4
If this list is complete (and so far there is no evidence of a 16,14, or 16,15), then there will be no M4 Ultra either. This is actually possible since we have the rumor of the existence of the so-called Hidra die to form the "desktop-only" chip. In contradiction to Gurman's prognostications, the Hidra may not be of the M4 generation. That could make the 17,1 and 17,2 from the OP the Ultra Mac Studio and the Ultra Mac Pro, which will be technically M5 chips.
If this is the case, then prediction is that 3rd party die shots will not show an interconnect on the M4 Max chips. I have not seen any 3rd party die shots of the Max yet.
M4 Macs
Mac16,1 MBP 14” M4
Mac16,2 iMac 24” M4 (2-port)
Mac16,3 iMac 24” M4 (4-port)
Mac16,4 DNE
Mac16,5 MBP 16” M4 Max (384b & 512b)
Mac16,6 MBP 14” M4 Max (384b & 512b)
Mac16,7 MBP 16” M4 Pro
Mac16,8 MBP 14” M4 Pro
Mac16,9 Mac Studio M4 Max
Mac16,10 Mac mini M4
Mac16,11 Mac mini M4 Pro
Mac16,12 MBA 13” M4
Mac16,13 MBA 15” M4
If this list is complete (and so far there is no evidence of a 16,14, or 16,15), then there will be no M4 Ultra either. This is actually possible since we have the rumor of the existence of the so-called Hidra die to form the "desktop-only" chip. In contradiction to Gurman's prognostications, the Hidra may not be of the M4 generation. That could make the 17,1 and 17,2 from the OP the Ultra Mac Studio and the Ultra Mac Pro, which will be technically M5 chips.
If this is the case, then prediction is that 3rd party die shots will not show an interconnect on the M4 Max chips. I have not seen any 3rd party die shots of the Max yet.
tenthousandthings
Contributor
Makes sense. If the Mac16,9 identification is correct, have to wonder if a new Studio Display is in the works along with it. If not, that’s going to be a pretty short presentation, even with the Airs.
Then, probably announced at WWDC, the M5 Über and a new Pro Display XDR.
"have to wonder if a new Studio Display is in the works"
Given the general dissatisfaction with the FaceTime camera performance when the OG Studio Display was announced,
and seeing how much of an improvement the M4 iMac camera is, it would seem highly likely that the A13 SoC and camera in the Studio Display would get a refresh.
Whether it gets a new 90Hz panel, as has been rumoured., is an unknown...
Given the general dissatisfaction with the FaceTime camera performance when the OG Studio Display was announced,
and seeing how much of an improvement the M4 iMac camera is, it would seem highly likely that the A13 SoC and camera in the Studio Display would get a refresh.
Whether it gets a new 90Hz panel, as has been rumoured., is an unknown...
With the inclusion of TB5 on the M4 Pro and above, WWDC 2025 would also be prime time to update the now 5-year-old Pro Display XDR with a higher resolution and refresh rate (36" 7k@120?).
They may not do a Spring presentation for the Airs at all - they didn't for the Macs in the fall. That said, I know a lot of people are hoping for a new display and the old one is getting long in the tooth. I agree that the Studio M4 Max and (M4 or M5) Ultra and Mac Pro might not come until WWDC - especially if this M5 idea is correct, the Studio/Pro will more likely be WWDC ... or later.
Just in, kind of confirmed:
A3143 Mac16,9 Mac Studio M4 Max
A3389 Mac15,14 Mac Studio M3 Ultra
A3240 Mac16,12 MBA 13” M4
A3241 Mac16,13 MBA 15” M4
A3143 Mac16,9 Mac Studio M4 Max
A3389 Mac15,14 Mac Studio M3 Ultra
A3240 Mac16,12 MBA 13” M4
A3241 Mac16,13 MBA 15” M4
tenthousandthings
Contributor
Seems like it‘s down to either iMac Pro or Mac Pro for Mac17,1 and Mac17,2.
A 6K iMac Pro with the new, forthcoming LG panel in it would fit neatly. I wouldn’t hold my breath, but it does meet the criteria for an early launch (new product + new silicon, similar to last year’s OLED iPad Pro launch), arguably much better than any possible Mac Pro.
Mac Pro would then package an M3 Ultra with the Private Cloud Compute silicon — I don’t think the private/secure Siri delay is about the silicon, so there could be an “M3 Cloud” rack-scale architecture that has been in production for a long time, parallel with the development of the M3 Ultra. In an effort to show Apple is serious about privacy and security in Siri and Apple Intelligence, they feature the PCC silicon at WWDC.
The lesson that has emerged from the Nvidia DGX Station workstation architecture is that it needs a second GPU for video I/O, the Blackwell Ultra doesn’t have it. Apple solves that problem in the Mac Pro workstation with the M3 Ultra, basically a sort of mirror image of Nvidia's approach, a difference that encapsulates where each company is coming from.
A 6K iMac Pro with the new, forthcoming LG panel in it would fit neatly. I wouldn’t hold my breath, but it does meet the criteria for an early launch (new product + new silicon, similar to last year’s OLED iPad Pro launch), arguably much better than any possible Mac Pro.
Mac Pro would then package an M3 Ultra with the Private Cloud Compute silicon — I don’t think the private/secure Siri delay is about the silicon, so there could be an “M3 Cloud” rack-scale architecture that has been in production for a long time, parallel with the development of the M3 Ultra. In an effort to show Apple is serious about privacy and security in Siri and Apple Intelligence, they feature the PCC silicon at WWDC.
The lesson that has emerged from the Nvidia DGX Station workstation architecture is that it needs a second GPU for video I/O, the Blackwell Ultra doesn’t have it. Apple solves that problem in the Mac Pro workstation with the M3 Ultra, basically a sort of mirror image of Nvidia's approach, a difference that encapsulates where each company is coming from.
Aye it's a mess, as far as I can tell, given the full list of devices that leaked (@MarkoPJ copied it before Apple rectified their mistake), there are no more expected M3 Macs. There were two unreleased M2s though! 😵💫
So if 17,1 and 17,2 aren't Mac Pro variants, it doesn't seem like the Mac Pro is getting M3s either. Also the rumors (which could be wrong) keep pushing the date for the iMac Pro back. So I'm leaning slightly towards Mac Pros still BUT I admit that M5 iMac Pros would fit here too and it just isn't clear what if anything is happening with the Mac Pro.
Boil
macrumors 68040
M3 products are 15,X - M4 products are 16,X - stands to reason that the 17,X products are of the M5 variant...?
- 17,1 = M5 Extreme Mac Pro Tower / Rackmount
- 17,2 = M5 Extreme Mac Pro Cube
- ;^p
iMac Pro is extremely unlikely, if there is a panel shipment imminent, pretty much anyone and their mom in the supply chain would have known it and leaked it. So far all the larger screen iMac rumors, and the next gen XDR / ASD rumors all surround on prototype / pre-production testing units that don't necessarily turn into real products.
And then with how "complete" the Mac line right now is, the only Mac model that lags behind M3 or older is the Mac Pro. Though if it gets an update soon the silicon probably isn't M5 based, and if it is really M5 based it cannot be updated soon? (before some Macs getting it first, at least the MBP)
And then with how "complete" the Mac line right now is, the only Mac model that lags behind M3 or older is the Mac Pro. Though if it gets an update soon the silicon probably isn't M5 based, and if it is really M5 based it cannot be updated soon? (before some Macs getting it first, at least the MBP)
thenewperson
macrumors 65816
There were two unreleased M2s though!
Maybe the M2 iMacs? Was a bit weird they never released those in a gen where *everything else* got updated.
tenthousandthings
Contributor
I’m still a believer (in Mac17,1-2 launching with Sequoia inside):
J700 = Mac17,1 :: A18 Pro MacBook 12" WiFi
J701 = Mac17,2 :: A18 Pro MacBook 12" WiFi + Cellular
It will launch along with the iPads:
J510 = iPad17,1 :: A18 Pro iPad mini WiFi
J511 = iPad17,2 :: A18 Pro iPad mini WiFi + Cellular
J817 = iPad17,3 :: M5 iPad Pro 11" WiFi
J818 = iPad17,4 :: M5 iPad Pro 11" WiFi + Cellular
J820 = iPad17,5 :: M5 iPad Pro 13" WiFi
J821 = iPad17,6 :: M5 iPad Pro 13" WiFi + Cellular
J700 = Mac17,1 :: A18 Pro MacBook 12" WiFi
J701 = Mac17,2 :: A18 Pro MacBook 12" WiFi + Cellular
It will launch along with the iPads:
J510 = iPad17,1 :: A18 Pro iPad mini WiFi
J511 = iPad17,2 :: A18 Pro iPad mini WiFi + Cellular
J817 = iPad17,3 :: M5 iPad Pro 11" WiFi
J818 = iPad17,4 :: M5 iPad Pro 11" WiFi + Cellular
J820 = iPad17,5 :: M5 iPad Pro 13" WiFi
J821 = iPad17,6 :: M5 iPad Pro 13" WiFi + Cellular
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tenthousandthings
Contributor
EugW
macrumors P6
Why do you think it’s 12”? I own a 2017 12” m3 16 GB and like it but the pundits are betting on 13”+. 13”+ makes sense to me too, although I think something like 12.6” would be great for something like this.
tenthousandthings
Contributor
No thinking involved, other than the wishful kind -- I agree with those who say it will be current M1 MacBook Air 13" chassis/display with the A18 Pro.
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MR reported leaks of a 12.9” screen, and repeated the story in its recent roundup of yesterday’s current rumours:
www.macrumors.com
New 12.9-Inch MacBook Could Launch This Year Starting at $599
Apple's rumored new more affordable MacBook could have a starting price as low as $599 and launch as soon as this year, according to a recent report out of Asia. We first learned of Apple's low-cost MacBook plans in late June, when analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said the company was developing a "more...
www.macrumors.com
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EugW
macrumors P6
I still don't believe a $599 price point, even at edu (unless they're talking about institutional edu pricing).MR reported leaks of a 12.9” screen, and repeated the story in its recent roundup of yesterday’s current rumours:
New 12.9-Inch MacBook Could Launch This Year Starting at $599
Apple's rumored new more affordable MacBook could have a starting price as low as $599 and launch as soon as this year, according to a recent report out of Asia. We first learned of Apple's low-cost MacBook plans in late June, when analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said the company was developing a "more...
Apple sometimes does this, they make a lower priced tier that is not available to retail, so the retail base model is actually not the very base.
For instance the M1 MBA I think has had a 128GB model exclusive to bulk enterprise / edu purchases.
And then much much further back, eMac (the white CRT iMac variant) was for a time exclusive to edu, thus the e in its name. It maintained a lower price than the iMacs of the time, IIRC, because the iMacs moved on from CRT to the G4 lamp with LCD.
EugW
macrumors P6
Yeah, these show up on the used market from time to time. Sometimes you’ll see a good condition base model Mac on eBay at lower than expected pricing but that’s because it has half the normal storage.
For something like this with institutional-only availability, I could believe a US$599 price, but those expecting this price at retail are going to be disappointed.
Vincent Hanna
macrumors regular
Hi all. Long-time reader, first-time poster.
In my view, people are completely misjudging the pricing of this new base MacBook because they are misjudging the reason for it existing in the first place. It's not a rebirth of the super thin and small 12" MacBook. It is not a $599 Chromebook killer with cut down specs to hit that super low price point. No, the new entry level A18 MacBook is designed to do two things, and two things only:
1. Lower the entry-level retail price for a Mac laptop from $999 to $799.
2. Allow the MacBook Air lowest configuration price TO GO UP to $1199.
Even with RAM prices rising, I don't believe that Apple will ever release another Mac with only 8GB of RAM. And Apple's pricing tiers for laptops are very well thought out, always leading the buyer up the chain in $200 increments.
So this new MacBook can only start at $799 with 16GB of RAM and a 256GB drive. That means a version with a 512GB drive has to cost $999. Apple won't let pricing overlap with the MacBook Air line, so Apple's easy way out is to simply no longer offer the $999 MacBook Air with only 256GB of storage. Anyone who can live with that small a drive can also live with a smaller screen and an A18 chip. The MacBook Air now starts at $1199 with 16GB of RAM and a 512GB drive. This is NOT a price increase, it's the same model with the same specs and price as before.
All of this assumes the same day, side-by-side launch of the new A18 MacBook with the spec-bumped M5 MacBook Airs. It's the perfect time to align the pricing tiers to accommodate BOTH the lowering of the laptop entry price AND effectively moving the MacBook Air upmarket, despite no real increase in cost. Overall it looks like this:
12.9” A18 Pro MacBook (SE) 16/256 $799
12.9” A18 Pro MacBook (SE) 16/512 $999
13.6” M5 MacBook Air 16/512 $1199
In my view, people are completely misjudging the pricing of this new base MacBook because they are misjudging the reason for it existing in the first place. It's not a rebirth of the super thin and small 12" MacBook. It is not a $599 Chromebook killer with cut down specs to hit that super low price point. No, the new entry level A18 MacBook is designed to do two things, and two things only:
1. Lower the entry-level retail price for a Mac laptop from $999 to $799.
2. Allow the MacBook Air lowest configuration price TO GO UP to $1199.
Even with RAM prices rising, I don't believe that Apple will ever release another Mac with only 8GB of RAM. And Apple's pricing tiers for laptops are very well thought out, always leading the buyer up the chain in $200 increments.
So this new MacBook can only start at $799 with 16GB of RAM and a 256GB drive. That means a version with a 512GB drive has to cost $999. Apple won't let pricing overlap with the MacBook Air line, so Apple's easy way out is to simply no longer offer the $999 MacBook Air with only 256GB of storage. Anyone who can live with that small a drive can also live with a smaller screen and an A18 chip. The MacBook Air now starts at $1199 with 16GB of RAM and a 512GB drive. This is NOT a price increase, it's the same model with the same specs and price as before.
All of this assumes the same day, side-by-side launch of the new A18 MacBook with the spec-bumped M5 MacBook Airs. It's the perfect time to align the pricing tiers to accommodate BOTH the lowering of the laptop entry price AND effectively moving the MacBook Air upmarket, despite no real increase in cost. Overall it looks like this:
12.9” A18 Pro MacBook (SE) 16/256 $799
12.9” A18 Pro MacBook (SE) 16/512 $999
13.6” M5 MacBook Air 16/512 $1199
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Good first post. I don’t know if you are correct, but there is certainly good logic in what you have a written.
I don’t *think* Apple would go this way, partly because why go through the effort of a new chassis for this alone. Even if you want to end the M1 chassis, the current chassis can’t be getting much more cheap nor more expensive to make. Unless they do something like move the AIR to OLED more quickly that the current rumor, I don’t see enough price difference I guess, particularly with the M4 Air price regularly being $900 or below even now let alone when the M5 Air is released.
I think I’m still guessing the following:
12.9” MacBook with A18/19/Pro, with 12GB ram, 256GB ssd, and fewer ports (e.g., maybe not MagSafe and only one or two USB-C). For $699.
But your guess is certainly as good as mine. I’ve been wrong before. The only things I’m positive about is that it has to have at least 12GB because of AI, and has to have at least one USB-C port because that is law.
Vincent Hanna
macrumors regular
But if the MacBook Air line starts at $1199, then it won’t “regularly be below $900” anymore. That’s the whole point. The sub $1K price points, both retail AND discount, will be reserved for the new base MacBook.
This creates three advantages:
1. A regular consumer will be able to buy a new Mac laptop with a 512GB hard drive for $799 retail, something he cannot do now.
2. A regular consumer will be able to buy a new Mac laptop with a 512GB hard drive for $999 retail, something he cannot do now.
3. Apple gets crucial margin protection for the MacBook Air line that allows it to move up market over time with higher end features like OLED, sleeker designs, better webcams, etc, not to mention the M-series chips themselves, which are quickly becoming overkill for regular consumers.
This creates three advantages:
1. A regular consumer will be able to buy a new Mac laptop with a 512GB hard drive for $799 retail, something he cannot do now.
2. A regular consumer will be able to buy a new Mac laptop with a 512GB hard drive for $999 retail, something he cannot do now.
3. Apple gets crucial margin protection for the MacBook Air line that allows it to move up market over time with higher end features like OLED, sleeker designs, better webcams, etc, not to mention the M-series chips themselves, which are quickly becoming overkill for regular consumers.
The only changes to the Apple silicon MB Air lineup seem to have been made because of pressure from corporate bulk buyers - two external screen capability, as an example.
I don't think the move to a higher minimum price because of 512GB will necessarily be a move that corporate buyers will endorse, if their needs are served by 256GB 'smart terminal' MacBook Airs.
The reduced external connectivity of the A* MacBook may not be sufficient...
I don't think the move to a higher minimum price because of 512GB will necessarily be a move that corporate buyers will endorse, if their needs are served by 256GB 'smart terminal' MacBook Airs.
The reduced external connectivity of the A* MacBook may not be sufficient...