Are you sure that americans would work in the same conditions as the chinese? And even if they would, there are laws in your country.
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Foxconn: Apple Not Subsidizing Recent Wage Increases
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Didn't make it clear enough? Transferring at least some manufacturing back to the US is my idea of better and I think it would solve some unemployment here.
Heh heh, I live in a GM town with two factories in Canada. We well know that Canada is the most expensive place in the world to assemble a car. I knew a guy making over 50 bucks an hour to keep an eye on an assembly machine. And lord did he complain when they wanted him to cover a buck of his pharmacy dispensing fee...
Ignorance is Bliss
Just enjoy your shiny toys here at fraction of the cost. Don't look further, because Americans that have seen Asian factory workers at work would not even want the job if the salary was doubled. Forget hour-long meal breaks, benefits & 401k, and 8 hour work days. They're overworked and underpaid, that ***** would never fly here in the states.
Just enjoy your shiny toys here at fraction of the cost. Don't look further, because Americans that have seen Asian factory workers at work would not even want the job if the salary was doubled. Forget hour-long meal breaks, benefits & 401k, and 8 hour work days. They're overworked and underpaid, that ***** would never fly here in the states.
You oversimplify. You have materials that are used for the parts, then you have the parts, then you have the Apple fabrication line. Then you have laws.
I hear people saying the prices will go up, but why do they have to? Maybe we could, I don't know, not have companies making ridiculous profits. I'm not against capitalism but something about shipping jobs over seas just so you can gain more profit upsets me, having American workers won't bankrupt you you just might have to settle for 100 million on every billion. Though I know having hundreds of millions is destitute
Note: I'm not picking on apple, this holds true for almost all companies.
No, Americans, Japanese, Europeans, Russians, Mexicans,...etc wil not work under the same conditions as the Chinese are forced to.
Yes, there are laws in our country (and most others) to prevent just that because it was decided long ago that treating people like that is immoral and thus illegal.
Oh, I surely agree with you. But that's changing this whole stupid system and at the time it seems unrealistic.
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Your point?
So, you think Americans, an others, should work like that, that it is a good idea to have workers who work long hours for nothing, with no benefits?
Is that your ideal way of living? How about for yourself? Want to do that?
You have absolutely no idea what a Union is or what it stands for.
You only say such things because your Wall Street-employed family is so coke'd up on corruption that its all they've told you since you were a child.
I hear people saying the prices will go up, but why do they have to? Maybe we could, I don't know, not have companies making ridiculous profits. I'm not against capitalism but something about shipping jobs over seas just so you can gain more profit upsets me, having American workers won't bankrupt you you just might have to settle for 100 million on every billion. Though I know having hundreds of millions is destitute
Note: I'm not picking on apple, this holds true for almost all companies.
That's OK if you think of companies and peopleless automatons, but in reality, most of these companies are publicly owned and traded. That apparently obscene amount of profit could conceivably boil down to just a few cents for each share of the company.
300,000 workers at one plant... that's just unbelievable.
That is more people than the US has in most cities.
That is more people than the US has in most cities.
I do oversimplify, I agree, but most people I think are overstating. The cost of labour per $1 widget may be alot and make it worth outsourcing to China, but the cost of labour on a $1000 widget isn't nearly so, and wouldn't be nearly as noticeable in the overall price. Double the labour cost on a $1 item and you might be doubling its retail, but nowhere near that on an advanced electronic item like we are discussing.
+1 Circuit City tried that ******** and look where it got them. "We will be a services based company that just happens to sell electronics." Super bad business model...I remember hearing the same thing at Best Buy too when I worked there years ago.
First of all apple is one iota of the manufacturing that goes there, plenty more manufacture there.
Secondly because I am sick and tired of hypocrisy and political correctness, if these asain cultures, that are harsh, brutal and totalitarian bring up their people as slaves and automatons, it's hardly a bussinesmans fault that they want their factories over there. I would not do it, I don't condomne it, but the blame is on the societies themselves. From time immemorial Asian cultures have been raised in harsh regimes, humanitarianism is something that eludes them, and Asian workers make the best "paid slaves" because of their mentality. If they want better for themselves they should look into their culture on why these conditions are perpetuated and instead of jumping off buildings they should organise and demand.
But what are we talking about, adultery from women up until now is considered illegal in japan, and japan is one of the most progressed nations, and we are talking about egalitarianism here?
We should all be hoping in the west that we wizen up because in the eventuality that Asian nations, particularly china, where to conquer the west, hitler will seem like a luxury in terms of their brutality, because let's not forget the most sadistic killers (as well as all those "medical experiments" they performed on live human beings) in ww ii were not the German, they were by far the japs, a cruel, cruel society where even a convicted cannibal abroad is an art celebrity there.
So I do feel compassion for the individual human beings suffering as a result of geo political conditions, but in terms of their culture and regimes I cant sympathize at all.
These few things to put things into perspective.
Secondly because I am sick and tired of hypocrisy and political correctness, if these asain cultures, that are harsh, brutal and totalitarian bring up their people as slaves and automatons, it's hardly a bussinesmans fault that they want their factories over there. I would not do it, I don't condomne it, but the blame is on the societies themselves. From time immemorial Asian cultures have been raised in harsh regimes, humanitarianism is something that eludes them, and Asian workers make the best "paid slaves" because of their mentality. If they want better for themselves they should look into their culture on why these conditions are perpetuated and instead of jumping off buildings they should organise and demand.
But what are we talking about, adultery from women up until now is considered illegal in japan, and japan is one of the most progressed nations, and we are talking about egalitarianism here?
We should all be hoping in the west that we wizen up because in the eventuality that Asian nations, particularly china, where to conquer the west, hitler will seem like a luxury in terms of their brutality, because let's not forget the most sadistic killers (as well as all those "medical experiments" they performed on live human beings) in ww ii were not the German, they were by far the japs, a cruel, cruel society where even a convicted cannibal abroad is an art celebrity there.
So I do feel compassion for the individual human beings suffering as a result of geo political conditions, but in terms of their culture and regimes I cant sympathize at all.
These few things to put things into perspective.
Actually he pretty much hit the nail on the head. Its not so much what a Union stands for, its what Unions have become and its a shame.
There are companies *cough* Verizon *cough* who can't even fire poorly performing employees because of the union.
IMO unions are a good thing if kept in check, but when they get ridiculous and protect people who are consistently late or poor performing from losing their job, thats when things get out of hand.
Some places *cough* Circuit City *cough* managers were told to fire employees who mentioned the word "Union" in a store. I myself was written up for saying "we should form a union" after the commissioned salesman mass firing.
Foxconn is responsible for their employees, not Apple.
Of course. One reason they went to China is to avoid responsibility.
The supposed "problem" is that Foxconn employees have a suicide rate lower than that in the US. So working for Foxconn makes people less suicidal.
Cute that you put quotes around "problem", like it doesn't exist. And your stats came right from Apple's reply. Makes one wonder who you work for...
Oh, but it's Apple, so Apple should be doing *more*. They have the greenest products, but they are Apple so Greenpeace says they have to be even greener. They have an antenna issue that causes serious effects to virtually no one, same as many other phones, but senators will write letters about it because they are Apple.
Greener than who? Other companies around the world have to obey pollution laws. Going to China means you don't have those laws. That means Apple is less green. There is more to green than just being able to melt down the aluminum at some point.
Of course. One reason they went to China is to avoid responsibility.
The supposed "problem" is that Foxconn employees have a suicide rate lower than that in the US. So working for Foxconn makes people less suicidal.
Cute that you put quotes around "problem", like it doesn't exist. And your stats came right from Apple's reply. Makes one wonder who you work for...
Oh, but it's Apple, so Apple should be doing *more*. They have the greenest products, but they are Apple so Greenpeace says they have to be even greener. They have an antenna issue that causes serious effects to virtually no one, same as many other phones, but senators will write letters about it because they are Apple.
Greener than who? Other companies around the world have to obey pollution laws. Going to China means you don't have those laws. That means Apple is less green. There is more to green than just being able to melt down the aluminum at some point.
Surely, it depends on the widget. But for computers, you need parts manufacturers, preferably closer, and they need raw materials, preferably closer too. At some point a lot of labour is involved. Don't look at just the Apple part of the manufacturing process. In Apple's cost you see the parts as already made, but there was labour involved.
At the end it will make a difference, it will be very expensive to rebuild the same infrastructure in the USA and well, the laws. It is easier for companies to operate in China where they can do whatever they want.
Yes, if it brings benefits to us. I don't shop at WallofChinaMart either, because there are compelling reasons not to.
There is more to life than cheaper prices for this or that.
Thats why you use non-union workers. Union's are the downfall of American manufacturing. But either way... it would exponentially increase the cost to make the products.
PS
I would not mind paying higher prices for something made here in the USA.
Also before someone says I don't know what unions are for or what they stand for... My Father lost his job because of the unions... His place of employment unionized (he was against it).. and the company just said.. screw y'all and closed that location and moved it to another state. What did the union do... NOTHING!! all they did is take his money.. and then leave when the company left.... Back in the day unions might of been a good thing and possible necessary.. but nowadays they do nothing but take your money.....