Foxconn Employee Reportedly Commits Suicide Over Lost iPhone Prototype

[chstr]

Hmmm, that makes total sense. Hey, has any one you know died? If so, I bet you killed them!!! Cause, you know, that stuff has happened before in the "history of the human-animal race."

actually, nobody I know has died violently/suspiciously working for a multi-million (billion?) dollar corporation involving a highly touted consumer product worth.... billions$$$$$$$$ in a country known for human rights abuse

so your argument has deep holes

I don't know about your country. At least in Germany you as an employee are fully liable for damages (to your company) if you grossly neglect your responsibilities (there are different rates if proven only partially neglecting your responsibilities). Since this guy was responsible for the safekeeping of the prototype I would say this could fall under this category.
If Foxconn fears that they might loose the contract over this stunt these damages could be quite high...

I am no lawyer and do not plan to become one and I don't know the rules in China. So this is pretty much speculation, just to show that there might be some real thread other than just loosing your job.

this is more along the lines of my argument, which holds much more water than naively thinking... NO how could it be?!?!?!?!

 

[DELLsFan]

<<blah blah ad hominem blah blah>>
All companies have tight security for the things that they design. This is a China thing, where the leaders have NO concern for their people. PERIOD.
<<blah blah more ad hominem blah blah >>

I'll grant both your points in your ad hominem sandwich. However, it's Apple's fervent protection of its secrets and the real or perceived repercussions against Foxconn for having potentially compromised them - that I believe has ultimately resulted in the death of one person.

 

[Shasterball]

actually, nobody I know has died violently/suspiciously working for a multi-million (billion?) dollar corporation involving a highly touted consumer product worth.... billions$$$$$$$$ in a country known for human rights abuse

so your argument has deep holes

Really? So your argument that he was PROBABLY murdered makes sense?

 

[gamac]

You're getting the wrong end of the stick - you started by saying you agreed with the 'weak' comment, albeit with a disclaimer about in certain circumstances but then went on to say how the concept of 'honour' in suicides is wrong. That my friend is a JUDGMENT, something you have no right to offer. Who are you to judge what is right and wrong when it comes to a person of free will who acts according to their own beliefs borne out of their own culture.

"Honour killings" as per your example are not the same as suicide as they are conducted against the will of the victims. Same as all practices that you care to name that are morally wrong (oppression, sectarianism, ritual medical practices, etc.)

I'm done with this thread now. Moving on.

It is good that you are "done with this thread now. Moving on" because it is apparent you are unable to have an honest discussion or debate. You apparently like misquoting and out-and-out lying about what someone has said to make your own point appear valid.

You really need to actually read other posts instead of listening to the voices in your head.

However, it is good to see that you are able to finally admit that some cultural practices can be "judged" as morally wrong by someone outside of that culture.

 

[armoguy94]

Wow, what a great, caring, time-spent response that Apple gave for this event! not..

 

[olternaut]

So...Apple is to blame for the socio-political realities in China, or the cultural differences that value honor over life? I'm no fanboy, but substitute any cutting-edge company (with a potentially innovative product) for "Apple" and the result would have been the same.

Directly to blame? No.

But your kidding yourself if you don't think Apple as a company needs to take responsibility for the companies they choose to do business with.
For all we know, the head of Foxconn ordered his security teams to search the kid's home and interrogate him. And I'm being conservative by using the world "interrogate".

It's certainly Apple's responsibility if the heads at Apple secretly know of any ruthless tactics used at some chinese companies. It's like those companies are acting like chinese triads. It makes no difference to them how they should treat their employees.

I say the family of the deceased should hire a crack mercenary squad to take out the rogue foxconn security elements and go after the head at foxconn if it turns out that the company is indeed THAT ruthless.
To hell with Apple and their friggin iPhones!

No damn prototype is worth this!
How the hell are people supposed to be psyched about upcoming Apple events and future products when stuff like this happens behind the scenes??

This has TOTALLY ruined my enthusiasm for Apple's upcoming fall event and possibly that tablet. sonofabiotch.......bah whatever.

 

[wolfshades]

Gotta be a cultural thing. Similar to young kids in Japan who commit suicide for not getting high enough marks. It happens.

Over here in Canada, if you make a mistake you sit back in your chair and you think about it. And your thoughts go something like this:

1) can I get fired?
2) if no, then when's my next paycheque
3) LUNCHTIME!

ALT2): oh they're going to fire me? OK then. Unemployment benefits.
3) LUNCHTIME!

Our culture is so very depraved, isn't it?

 

[8CoreWhore]

For FC security officials are probably ex govt or even current govt security... and they probably through him out the window.

 

[chstr]

Really? So your argument that he was PROBABLY murdered makes sense?

yep! thanks for agreeing with me

 

[peterlobl]

dictacapitalism

this is way beyond aapl...
free trade is vital, but how to deal with such places?

insist on tariffs for workers' rights abuses, pollution, graft, everything.

it could go two ways vis a vis the usa, and it will make imports pricier..

but the world just might b a better place

 

[Shasterball]

yep! thanks for agreeing with me

Ugh. I should know better than to argue with a child...

 

[Rot'nApple]

I'm surprised that you don't know this by now: Apple ALWAYS has "something else coming along soon."

It's called the Steve Jobs quote...

"Oh yeah, there's one more thing..."

Sad that someone was intimidated enough to jump out a 12 story window. Hope there is an uproar to get Apple off their butts and look into the matter themselves. It's one thing to complain about pay or working conditions. It's another to come to the point to take your own life.

Now we know where to send captured Al Queada... from Gitmo to China, with Love... let the anti-Gitmo crowd fly to China and voice their displeasure with the Chinese government. See how far that gets them! Probably up to the 12th floor.

 

[chstr]

Ugh. I should know better than to argue with a child...

I SHOULD know better than to argue on the internetz... but I don't

 

[California]

However, it's Apple's fervent protection of its secrets and the real or perceived repercussions against Foxconn for having potentially compromised them - that I believe has ultimately resulted in the death of one person.

I'm shocked at the stupidity on MR about this

Don't you guys get it?

China is the counterfeiting nation.

They counterfeit EVERYTHING there, including Mercedes Benz.

A prototype iPhone is worth.. millions.

Someone bribed someone.

This has NOTHING to do with Apple, except their idiotic idea that using Chinese factories is a "good" idea.

I think people on MR were talking about this problem years ago when some very very good counterfeit shuffles were showing up and it was obvious that Apple's plastic molds and designs were being counterfeited, very very well.

I think there were some people who bought them who had trouble when they tried to call Apple about it with their "serial numbers" on the shuffles when they had problems.

You guys don't get what a quarter of a million perfectly counterfeited iPhones could do to Apple and/or could make for someone with a prototype.

Being American today is synonymous with being punchdrunk: I don't understand why my beloved MR pals aren't seeing the bottomline here.

 

[awinn233]

Who is to blame?

In order to establish blame, we must first look at the facts.

On Thursday, July 9 Sun Danyong received sixteen prototype cell phones (presumably an unreleased iPhone model) from a local Foxconn factory in China. At some point he lost track of one of the prototype cell phones. He reported the missing prototype to his employer on Monday, July 13. The fact that he told his employer is significant.

On Wednesday, July 15 three Foxconn employees illegally searched Mr. Danyong's apartment. Some reports also suggest that he was detained and subjected to physical abuse by the Foxconn employees.

In the early hours on Thursday, July 16 Mr. Danyong jumped from his apartment window and fell to his death. This was recorded by surveillance cameras in the area.

Now we must establish blame.

Foxconn has put out a statement that says they are taking steps to offer resources to assist employees with mental health issues. This suggests that Foxconn believes that Mr. Danyong was mentally ill before his death and that this illness was responsible for his death. I do not believe this to be true.

Some have suggested that Mr. Danyong killed himself because of the intense shame that he felt for losing a very valuable prototype cell phone. If that were the case, then why did he inform his employer of the missing prototype? Presumably the act of notifying his employer would make him feel intense embarrassment and shame. If he wanted to avoid such intense feelings, wouldn't he kill himself before anyone found out about the missing prototype? I think so. Mr. Danyong must have committed suicide for another reason.

That leaves the actions of the Foxconn employees that searched Mr. Danyong's apartment. What they did, exactly, must be uncovered. If it is true that they beat him up and threatened him, it is likely that such violence (and maybe threats of more violence unless the prototype was found) could have driven Mr. Danyong to commit suicide. Therefore, Foxconn is most likely responsible for the death of Mr. Danyong.

Whether Foxconn's actions against Mr. Danyong are the result of Apple's policy of strict secrecy cannot be determined from the facts that are available, but it is plausible.

 

[larrybeo]

This is not "just a phone" people!

To the people that think, "wow - why all this over a phone" - this is Apples' monopoly stronghold on the MP3 market - if an iPhone prototype falls into the wrong hands, Apple could stand to lose as much 50% profits - if not more. If they were more open and not as secretive, this sort of thing wouldn't happen. I am ready to join a group boycotting Apple - but does that mean I have to give up my iPhone?

 

[California]

No damn prototype is worth this!
How the hell are people supposed to be psyched about upcoming Apple events and future products when stuff like this happens behind the scenes??

This has TOTALLY ruined my enthusiasm for Apple's upcoming fall event and possibly that tablet. sonofabiotch.......bah whatever.

Please read my above post. This has NOTHING to do with Apple except their product excellence combined with an idiotic idea that working in the counterfeit capital of the world in Chinese factories "saves" them money.

When just one prototype product of Apple gets out in China, Apple has lost much much more money than their slave labor shops in China "saves" them.

Apple has lost BILLIONS because of illegal Chinese counterfeits. To project on to the Chinese some ridiculous idea of that they have to "save face" is an American foolishness.

Someone bribed someone regarding this billion dollar prototype.

One prototype represents a how many millions of dollars in research and development for Apple?

 

[DELLsFan]

... their idiotic idea that using Chinese factories is a "good" idea...

Hey ... I agree with you on this at least ^^ . The other stuff, you'll have to forgive me for dissenting, my beloved MR member.

 

[tjcampbell]

Lets just hope the phone is okay.

 

[aleksander]

Foxconn has put out a statement that says they are taking steps to offer resources to assist employees with mental health issues. This suggests that Foxconn believes that Mr. Danyong was mentally ill before his death and that this illness was responsible for his death. I do not believe this to be true.

Some have suggested that Mr. Danyong killed himself because of the intense shame that he felt for losing a very valuable prototype cell phone. If that were the case, then why did he inform his employer of the missing prototype? Presumably the act of notifying his employer would make him feel intense embarrassment and shame. If he wanted to avoid such intense feelings, wouldn't he kill himself before anyone found out about the missing prototype? I think so. Mr. Danyong must have committed suicide for another reason.

That leaves the actions of the Foxconn employees that searched Mr. Danyong's apartment. What they did, exactly, must be uncovered. If it is true that they beat him up and threatened him, it is likely that such violence (and maybe threats of more violence unless the prototype was found) could have driven Mr. Danyong to commit suicide. Therefore, Foxconn is most likely responsible for the death of Mr. Danyong.

Whether Foxconn's actions against Mr. Danyong are the result of Apple's policy of strict secrecy cannot be determined from the facts that are available, but it is plausible.

Finally.

 

[LiquidSpikes]

very sad

Maybe he should have turned on "Find My iPhone"

 

[Shasterball]

Some have suggested that Mr. Danyong killed himself because of the intense shame that he felt for losing a very valuable prototype cell phone. If that were the case, then why did he inform his employer of the missing prototype? Presumably the act of notifying his employer would make him feel intense embarrassment and shame. If he wanted to avoid such intense feelings, wouldn't he kill himself before anyone found out about the missing prototype? I think so. Mr. Danyong must have committed suicide for another reason.

Ummm, I don't follow. Of course he would tell his employers. If he felt so much shame about this (presumably because it would hurt the company), he would tell them so they would be informed.

 

[killerrobot]

Sad he committed suicide, especially after he did the right thing and notified his employer. People make mistakes and a phone prototype is not worth a person's life, no matter how groundbreaking.

It does seem suspect to me that an employee who has had his apartment illegally searched by the companies security ends up committing suicide afterwards.

That said, I have seen the Pelican Brief way too many times.

 

[deconstruct60]

Also we don't know the whole situation. this poor guy could have been mentally ill. He could have been on his 5th job and under a lot of stress to do well and he panicked. it just happened to be some Apple that caused it so it is high news

Errrrr, Foxconn takes super, triple, top secret prototypes from Apple and entrusts their safety to some mentally unstable guy on his 5th job???????????

What motivation would Foxconn have for handing over such a potentially relationship destructive a person with such a background?

Or how about the guy was stable but the ex Communist Government enforcers Foxconn hired for it IP protection security detail came in there , put him "in the box" and sweated him very, very, very hard. [ Or you Foxconn hires "Mr. Easygoing" for their security pool versus from the security services in China and leverage those kind of standard procedures? ]


If Foxconn security had come in there and scare the crap out of that employee and he didn't jump most of the evidence points to a case where Apple wouldn't have cared. They want a hammer over folks heads on security.

 

[California]

Don't you guys know that former Cold War spies now make millions of dollars in industrial espionage?

Apple needs to keep their trade secrets secret in order to be a viable business.

I'm shocked at the weirdness and idea that this is a "mental health" issue. China just recently stopped giving shock treatments for internet addicts. I daresay, most of us on MR would qualify as being "mentally ill" in China for our overuse of MR!

Didn't you guys ever read George Orwell?

"Mental health" issue is doublespeak for "you are expendable".

Why do we in the West project onto other cultures our own sentimental value systems?