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I have been told a number of times that in reality wages do not make any significant different to actual product cost.

It's simple to understand really.

If you have 1 guy who is standing, running a high tech machine that's turning out say 100 items per hour and those items are worth $20 each.

So that's $2000 per hour this unit (man and machine) are creating.

If you pay the guy $1 for this hour, or $20 for this hour. Yes, one it being paid 20 times as much as the other. But in reality, this cost it very little when put against the value of the items that are being created during this time period.

Actually, it's not so simple, because you make a fallacious assumption.

In country A, you pay the guy $1 per hour to build 1 unit manually over 5 hours, at a cost of $5.

In country B, you would have to pay the $20 guy for 5 hours or $100. But if you buy the high-tech assembly machine for $500K, then the $20 guy can spurt out 100 units per hour, at a marginal cost of only $.20 per unit. However, you've got to pay for the $500K machine. So country A still wins. However, since country B guy is 25 times more efficient than country A guy, you are not displacing as many B guys as the number of employees in A.
 
There should be a law that states anytime a US company chooses to manufacture something outside the US, the company must post a clearly-articulated-less-than-25-page document stating AND COMPARING why the US is unable to manufacture said product.

Usually such a document could consist of one single sentence: "Somebody else does it for less money." Which is one of the key principles of a market economy or capitalism, competition based on price (for a given service or product).
I never understood why socialism is such a bad word in the U.S. but protectionism is not. Both -isms try to circumvent the market (as in market economy).

Disclaimer: I don't think the market is perfect, it very often is not. But you should first demonstrate clear market failure before overruling it.
 
You are still not getting it. It does cost a fraction to build things outside the US.

Ohhh, I get it. Trust me. But there's more to "it" than just a 3-paragraph overview of the entire way the US decides to do business. I think a high percentage of Americans will agree that the business models (taxes, outsourcing, low US manufacturing, unions, wages, health benefits, etc) are basically killing our way of life.

Maybe in 10-15 years the US will finally realize how much damage has been done and will start to get back in shape.
 
I laugh at this topic...because it's been yapped about for weeks..."just cut NPR and we'll save $40 million!" Wow...$40mill out of trillions. Yeah, great concept. Why don't we cut out public museums, libraries, and parks while we're at it.

I actually listen to NPR...basically because it's on the classical station I tune into. NPR may be a bit on the Democrat side, but overall I find the stories are at least real news...while offering both sides of the argument.

Queue all the Fox News freaks...

I think the MacRumors posters have solved this problem with their insightful comments.

Now to the most important thing:

Will the iphone and ipad get less expensive when produced in Brazil? LOL
 
I think the MacRumors posters have solved this problem with their insightful comments.

Now to the most important thing:

Will the iphone and ipad get less expensive when produced in Brazil? LOL

great question.,..

the answer: for brazilian people? yes, between 10% and 20%

for other countries? No.
 
But it's also stupid because it rewards Brazil for its aggressive mercantilist policies. Other countries, particularly in Latin America, are likely to take note and follow. In fact, they'll be foolish if they don't.

So now Brazil is the one having "aggressive mercantilist policies"?

Why don't you talk about the US's egregiously illegal subsidies to its orange juice, steel and ethanol industries against Brazilian imports of the same products?

In case you don't know about them, just check WTO's website to see the rulings AND appeals that the US has continuously lost against Brazil. Or is it nice to have "free markets" only when you benefit from them?
 
So now Brazil is the one having "aggressive mercantilist policies"?

Why don't you talk about the US's egregiously illegal subsidies to its orange juice, steel and ethanol industries against Brazilian imports of the same products?

In case you don't know about them, just check WTO's website to see the rulings AND appeals that the US has continuously lost against Brazil. Or is it nice to have "free markets" only when you benefit from them?

It's true-- the policy on ethanol, especially, is bad for US consumers. We are subsidizing US corn farmers to product ethanol that ends up using more petroleum to create than is saved in the resulting gasohol. Meanwhile, import controls are keeping out the (actually efficient) ethanol produced in Brazil. At the same time, food prices are rising all over the world due to shortages that could be alleviated if all that US corn became food, rather than fuel. Ethanol in the US has become nothing but an industrial subsidy for agrobiz. Our taxes our subsidizing a tragedy.
 
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Usually such a document could consist of one single sentence: "Somebody else does it for less money."

All I'm proposing is that the government get the DETAILS. Why is it $X over there buy $Y here? Every....single....detail: wages, benefits, unions, taxes, land fees, government kickbacks/breaks/incentives, transportation from there to here, cheap import tax, etc. This document HAS to exist at the company because the CEO and everyone below him/her is going to read the doc regarding all the costs/savings...and how it compares to the USA. So please make it public. No shame. No crime. The the public know about the pros/cons of working in the US so we, as a people, can adjust our laws/policies to best ensure we have a successful economy.

When these documents pile up, the US gov't can say "hmmmm...a lot of companies choose to build in ____ because their tax rate is 5% while ours is 35%"...and then the US can START to become a bit more competitive.

Right now companies just do as they please (which is the basis of Capitalism) but I think ALL companies would love to TRY to keep manufacturing in the USA IF it's feesible...it's great PR (especially these days and the next 30+ years). Trust me, there are plenty of folks in the US (or robots) that would manufacture things. It's probably not a highly skilled job (define highly skilled) for every single manufacturing process...plenty of 15-25 year olds out there ready to earn a buck while paying for school and/or their ultimate profession.
 
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lol

Being a Brazilian I can easily say that not only import taxes are high here - hiring people is one hell of an expensive move too. It`s actually one of the big reasons why lots of companies do not have factories here! Most of them go to China - that`s where production is cheap.
Even if Foxconn decides to pay the minimun wage here, there`s still so many taxes, fees and other stuff that they`ll have to pay for the workers that I find it hard for it to be good at all for either Apple or Fox.

So.. if you were waiting for this move to reduce the prices on :apple: gadgets, keep waiting.. because it`s more likely they will raise it even more :p

I don`t know but I`m a bit skeptical about this. Especially since we`re talkin about 12U$ billion!
 
Here in Brazil we have high taxes. Taxes are high and public services are of poor quality. The cost of labor is quite high, due to all the labor bureaucracy that punishes both employers and employees. The purpose of mounting the iPads here in Brazil is that they would not be able to pay some import taxes and enjoy some tax incentives that the Brazilian government grants to companies that assemble their products in national territory. Furthermore, we live in a fake democracy, in which the State is only concerned with lining their own pockets, leaving the needs of the Brazilian people in the last plan. That since 1500.

Well, speak for yourself, because I beg to disagree by a LONG shot. Brazil has one of the cleanest and most modern democracies in this world, with flawless election systems and an absolutely open press and media, even IF people prefer to choose the "wrong" candidates.

Despite all problems that may exist in certain areas, no Brazilian needs to accept this sort of inferiority complex anymore, especially considering the more than visible evolution of the country when compared to the 80s and 90s. We are no longer the "nation of the future"; so it's more than high time that Brazilians should understand that as much as any foreigner does.
 
Well, speak for yourself, because I beg to disagree by a LONG shot. Brazil has one of the cleanest and most modern democracies in this world, with flawless election systems and an absolutely open press and media, even IF people prefer to choose the "wrong" candidates.

Despite all problems that may exist in certain areas, no Brazilian needs to accept this sort of inferiority complex anymore, especially considering the more than visible evolution of the country when compared to the 80s and 90s. We are no longer the "nation of the future"; so it's more than high time that Brazilians should understand that as much as any foreigner does.

I think we live in different countries, because what you see here is:

through taxes, we pay the State for education. But if we want good education, we must buy back the private sector. We pay twice for the same service.

through taxes, we pay the state for health. But if we want good health, we need to buy again from private enterprise. We pay twice for the same service.

through taxes, we pay the state for safekeeping. But if you want good security, we must buy back the private sector. We pay twice for the same service.

through property taxes, we pay the State for good roads. But if you want good road, we need to pay tolls. We pay twice for the same service.

social security is a joke. Even if we pay the maximum amount for retirement, when we receive, we receive less than a third of the amount paid to social security.

no tools for punishing politicians who carry out crimes against the public budget. The politicians protect themselves. There is no transparency in public accounts.

The weight tributary to the Brazilian state suffocates the taxpayers more and more.

we have the highest interest rates in the world. And there is no control over the banking spread.

There is no project for the country. Whether or not the government is PT or PSDB, little changes.
 
... then sit back and watch everyone complain about the high priced products! Yeah, sounds like a winner.

They make cars in the US, and domestic cars are typically less expensive than foreign ones. This argument really doesn't fly.

Stop making excuses for US companies that build their products elsewhere. We CAN manufacture things in this country; we used to do it a lot more and the products were affordable.

My Apple IIe says "Made in the USA" on the bottom. It's sad that we never see that on computers anymore.
 
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They make cars in the US, and domestic cars are typically less expensive than foreign ones. This argument really doesn't fly.

But what's the difference in cost of shipping a car versus an iPhone across the Pacific?
 
They make cars in the US, and domestic cars are typically less expensive than foreign ones. This argument really doesn't fly.

Stop making excuses for US companies that build their products elsewhere. We CAN manufacture things in this country; we used to do it a lot more and the products were affordable.

My Apple IIe says "Made in the USA" on the bottom. It's sad that we never see that on computers anymore.

But do Americans REALLY want to be building laptops/ipods/ipads? i think society in developed countries such as the states has vigorously changed since 20 years ago.
 
But do Americans REALLY want to be building laptops/ipods/ipads? i think society in developed countries such as the states has vigorously changed since 20 years ago.

I wouldn't want to man the production line but i'd love to setup automation, especially if the price was right.

But the environmental impact that manufacturing has is huge. I'll take a discount on my products if it means the chinese will ruin their environments faster than we can.
 
This is exactly what pisses me off about ordinary Brazilians: they are awfully unable to see the positives - instead, it seems like Brazil is a living hell, and this ever since the country was "discovered" in 1500.

For people like you the country will never be good enough, especially since you're neither patriot nor a believer in turning something for the better.

I think we live in different countries, because what you see here is:

through taxes, we pay the State for education. But if we want good education, we must buy back the private sector. We pay twice for the same service.

Brazil's best Universities are public; as for primary public schools, it's clear that the uniformization of our educational system has brought improvements, even though regional differences exist. But to generalize this is to forget how crappy the same public schools are in some regions of the US and Europe.

through taxes, we pay the state for health. But if we want good health, we need to buy again from private enterprise. We pay twice for the same service.

Again, speak for yourself. My parents haven't had private insurance for ages and the service they get is actually quite good where they live. You may suffer from long waits in bigger towns, but this is not AT ALL the same difficulty found in other places. Besides, the same doctors working in private hospitals may normally be found in public places.

through taxes, we pay the state for safekeeping. But if you want good security, we must buy back the private sector. We pay twice for the same service.

Another example of panic behavior by Brazilians; places like São Paulo have battled urban crime with clear results, with a homicide rate that is almost 3x lower than in places like DC, Detroit or New Orleans. If people stopped reading tabloids and watching cop shows, perhaps this myth could be busted more easily.

You DON'T need armored cars, you DON'T need bodyguards and you DON'T need private helicopters. Unless you are one of those scared mama's boys, of course.

through property taxes, we pay the State for good roads. But if you want good road, we need to pay tolls. We pay twice for the same service.

Property taxes are, by definition, NOT bound to road conservation only; besides, I'd rather pay for a great road (as we have now in many places) than expect potholes. Tolls are a fact of life in many countries, although I agree that they could be more reasonable in São Paulo and other states - whose fault is it? Perhaps our own for not pushing for collective transportation, instead of prioritizing cars for everything. And as society continues to protest, toll prices will surely go down - just don't expect things to change when you don't even contact your representative about that.

social security is a joke. Even if we pay the maximum amount for retirement, when we receive, we receive less than a third of the amount paid to social security.

Agreed, but this comes much more from public servants unwilling to let go of their privileges than anything else. The lobby is strong, you know...

no tools for punishing politicians who carry out crimes against the public budget. The politicians protect themselves. There is no transparency in public accounts.

Never in the history of Brazil have so many politicians and crooks been punished for their crimes, both in terms of electoral defeats and jail time. Another point that you seem to forget: in the past we didn't see anything and corruption continued unabated; now we see a LOT of stuff going on exactly because the police and judiciary are working more than ever before.

The weight tributary to the Brazilian state suffocates the taxpayers more and more.

Sure; but with the nation increasing its international participation, things will have to come down to more reasonable terms - but don't forget that the State NEVER wants to lower taxes, and this is true for any country out there.

we have the highest interest rates in the world. And there is no control over the banking spread.

There is no project for the country. Whether or not the government is PT or PSDB, little changes.

Again, too much pessimism for nothing; interest rates are high because our government still spends too much and needs to finance inefficiency as well as attract foreign capital. Everyone knows that and pressure is mounting to reduce this charge, which was MUCH higher some 8 years ago...just don't expect this to happen overnight.

As for projects, the growth of the country and its huge infrastructure initiatives speak for themselves. To deny this fact is to perpetuate this sickly negativity that only pushes Brazil down. Start looking at the half-full side of the glass, please.
 
But the environmental impact that manufacturing has is huge. I'll take a discount on my products if it means the chinese will ruin their environments faster than we can.

Except China is like a plague of locusts consuming raw materials. All of the coal, petroleum, steel, concrete, etc. they are importing is coming from somewhere else, and procuring these things has negative environmental impact for where they’re sourced.
 
They make cars in the US, and domestic cars are typically less expensive than foreign ones. This argument really doesn't fly.

Stop making excuses for US companies that build their products elsewhere. We CAN manufacture things in this country; we used to do it a lot more and the products were affordable.

My Apple IIe says "Made in the USA" on the bottom. It's sad that we never see that on computers anymore.

we also make airplanes and other things that cost a lot. partly because shipping cars across the ocean is expensive and import duties

it's the cheap things that can't be produced in america anymore for a price people are willing to pay
 
Boycott Foxcom

Foxcom is a Taiwanese company. We have done a h..l of a lot for Taiwan. Why in the h..l can't they invest the $12 billion to build a manufacturing facility in the USA?

Its unbelievable that these companies don't even consider investing in the USA. I am about ready to boycott anything manufactured by Foxcom!
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

it's about friggin time apple build a serious volume manufacturing plant in the US! end of story!

OK they build it. Would YOU work there? I think after screwing the rear cover into my 100,000th iPhone I'd go nuts.
 
Except China is like a plague of locusts consuming raw materials. All of the coal, petroleum, steel, concrete, etc. they are importing is coming from somewhere else, and procuring these things has negative environmental impact for where they’re sourced.

Because before China, no other country in the world with factories EVER sourced raw materials from other countries.

If countries in Africa, the Middle East, and elsewhere weren't mining, growing, and extracting materials for factories in China, they'd be sourcing materials for factories in India, America, Europe, South Asia, Japan, Korea, or elsewhere. Unfortunately these countries tend to have weak or corrupt governments that don't care about environmental degradation or can't do anything meaningful about it.

Maybe countries with factories that source raw materials from other countries have a responsibility to help those other countries develop mechanisms to protect their environment. But I've yet to see this happen on a meaningful scale anywhere.
 
As discussed in other similar threads, this represents EXCELLENT news ....

agreed, it makes sense to diversify - having too many eggs in one basket (China/South east Asia) is too risky for Foxconn. One natural disaster, political unrest, region turmoil, economic problems, stuff you can't control can easily sink your company. I'm sure some of Foxconn's customer (Apple, Sony) have questions for them about any business continuity plans, risk management and their ability to supply after what happened in Japan.

P.
 
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