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cameronjpu's point of view strikes me as capitalist Panglossianism. It's like saying that there is no need for governments to have military and police forces, because people can arm themselves or hire guards.

As to employees being lazy bums, why not use access to sites like Facebook as a reward for doing their work? :D

On employment, I'd be happy to be self-employed or part of a cooperative. I've never had much taste for Randroid hero-worship of business leaders. It's like worshipping politicians or military leaders.


We are still some way to go before employment Götterdämmerung, because artificial intelligence is not good enough. It's one of the great disappointments of my life; I remember being very interested in it in earlier years. But artificial intelligence is nevertheless advancing; I found some companies that advertise artificial-vision inspection services -- you put a video camera on the production line and it sends its images to a computer that runs some software to check on whether the items look right. There's also work in warehouse robots and even crop-picking robots. You need artificial vision to recognize a fruit that's ready to be picked, and you need to move the arm to the fruit, which is why that technology has not gotten much notice. These actions may be trivial for us, but not for a robot.

But as AI advances, I think that employment Götterdämmerung is a real possibility, because for the large majority of (human) workers, it will be VERY hard to compete with robotized factories with good AI.
 
cameronjpu's point of view strikes me as capitalist Panglossianism. It's like saying that there is no need for governments to have military and police forces, because people can arm themselves or hire guards.

It's not like that at all - governments certainly have their place, in providing where there is a strong tragedy of the commons/freeloader effect. Military and police would be prime examples of that.

In products and services where investment benefits flow strongly the person doing the spending, there is absolutely no reason why the government should be involved in that. Private citizens and private capital do a perfectly good job of finding each other and working out a fair interest rate.
 
Why not here?

If the cost of an Apple plant depends on a million robots there, why not a million robots here? Do our robots demand overtime pay?

The offshore manufacturers have been selling themselves on the low cost of their labor. Now that they need to build robots to do the simpler stuff, their price will have to include the cost of building those machines.

It's desperately important to our economy in the US to do more of our manufacture HERE. We will not stop our decline unless we do.
 
You all seem to be missing something here...this is FOXCONN getting the robots, FOXCONN is a CHINESE company. Why would they bring the manufacturing plant to the US? This is not APPLE, they manufacture parts and products for tons of other companies... You all seem to just think Foxconn=Apple and Apple=Foxconn.
 
If the cost of an Apple plant depends on a million robots there, why not a million robots here? Do our robots demand overtime pay?

The offshore manufacturers have been selling themselves on the low cost of their labor. Now that they need to build robots to do the simpler stuff, their price will have to include the cost of building those machines.

It's desperately important to our economy in the US to do more of our manufacture HERE. We will not stop our decline unless we do.

Do some math for me - if no people are making the parts, where's the benefit of moving production to the USA? If China is getting all these parts from other parts of the world, putting them together and earning $1 per unit, is that something you think it would be worth moving back to the USA? Do you think you could set up a factory and do it cheaper?
 
Do some math for me - if no people are making the parts, where's the benefit of moving production to the USA? If China is getting all these parts from other parts of the world, putting them together and earning $1 per unit, is that something you think it would be worth moving back to the USA? Do you think you could set up a factory and do it cheaper?

If you think about it, it would probably be worse if moved to the US. Gaining about 50-100 jobs max, but all that extra power and resources taken for so little benefit. Gotta think about the little things.
 
If you think about it, it would probably be worse if moved to the US. Gaining about 50-100 jobs max, but all that extra power and resources taken for so little benefit. Gotta think about the little things.

Yeah. This is INCREDIBLY low profit work. There's a reason China is doing it. They're the only ones willing to do it for as little profit as they are. This is why it's totally foolhardy to try to steal business back from them. It's like Apple trying to steal iPod market share back from Samsung's Yepp or whatever the hell is it. Let the low profit work go to the lowest bidder. Keep the high profit stuff for yourself.
 
Speak for yourself.

My M.D. degree is a blank check.

Good that you have it made for life unlike the rest of us poor slobs. Currently, the health care industry is one of the best to get immediate high-paying jobs. At my local hospital, the doctors' parking lot looks like a high-end import cars' showroom. Whenever I want to see what the hottest sports cars are, I just take a stroll through their parking lot. It's great when you can get filthy rich off human misery because there's definitely no shortage of that now or ever.

The M.D. affixed to a doctor's name is an abbreviation for Mucho Dinero.
 
Should be kinda cool to teach 10,000 robots how to learn new tricks with the push of a few keys. I see it as saving time and money in the long run.

- Develop a new manufacturing process
- Test the manufacturing process in a lab with a few robots
- When ready, push the "apply-to-all" button and publish the new trick to all the 'bots on the floor.

Kinda sucks that so many people are going to lose their job though.
 
If you think about it, someone has got to fix those robots, make sure they are operational, lube them up. There are a lot of things robots cannot do and won't be able to do for a long long time, these robots are taking over the lowest common denominator jobs.

I know everyone gets pissed off that they are replacing real humans but, what is a corporation to do, stay less efficiant, simply so they can pay people to do something like drop the same part in the same circuit board over and over?

People want to believe in evolution until it applies to them constantly in this world. You need to adapt or get left behind, and I know that sucks but even in this 'civilized world' thats still law. Darwins law. The people who get ahead are the people who adapt, aka get education, get higher education. I am 24 and learning this now, I am a welder, but I don't want to do that forever. I'm finally going to school next semester, and get myself a better life.

Also, who does the company owe more? The worker or the person who invested in the company, the share holders? The people who gave them the job in the first place? theres no good answer.
 
Good that you have it made for life unlike the rest of us poor slobs. Currently, the health care industry is one of the best to get immediate high-paying jobs. At my local hospital, the doctors' parking lot looks like a high-end import cars' showroom. Whenever I want to see what the hottest sports cars are, I just take a stroll through their parking lot. It's great when you can get filthy rich off human misery because there's definitely no shortage of that now or ever.

The M.D. affixed to a doctor's name is an abbreviation for Mucho Dinero.

Well maybe they should stop playing doctor and just let all those humans in misery just die a slow and more horrible death.

Its not like they have SKILLS or anything that earns them that cash.

Its not like they put their lifes on hold for 8 years and spent more money then anyone to get into that practice and also spend more money then anyone else in insurance. Millions of dollars.


Its time us humans stop playing god, lol.

So when you or someone you know gets cancer, go down to the lady who is into Santeria, or the voodoo lady and let her shake a chickens dick over your chest for a reasonable price.

You want your life saved? Lifes always priceless until you got to pay.
 
If you think about it, someone has got to fix those robots, make sure they are operational, lube them up. There are a lot of things robots cannot do and won't be able to do for a long long time, these robots are taking over the lowest common denominator jobs.

I know everyone gets pissed off that they are replacing real humans but, what is a corporation to do, stay less efficiant, simply so they can pay people to do something like drop the same part in the same circuit board over and over?

People want to believe in evolution until it applies to them constantly in this world. You need to adapt or get left behind, and I know that sucks but even in this 'civilized world' thats still law. Darwins law. The people who get ahead are the people who adapt, aka get education, get higher education. I am 24 and learning this now, I am a welder, but I don't want to do that forever. I'm finally going to school next semester, and get myself a better life.

Also, who does the company owe more? The worker or the person who invested in the company, the share holders? The people who gave them the job in the first place? theres no good answer.

All joints on robots are sealed with pre-lubricated bearings. They are VERY reliable when used within there limits. If you seen the link I posted earlier, Fanuc has a factory that makes robots...using there own robots. This factory runs unattended for 30 days at a time.

And tell me what a robot can not do? Processors are expected to exceed brain power in 2030 and Honda already has Asimo. What do you think will come with the more advanced processors? You clearly know nothing of the manufacturing field.
 
So, will the cost savings these robots will bring be passed on to the consumer then? Or will Apple, Sony etc just profit more?

First of all, Apple will not accrue any cost savings to pass on to the consumer. This move will help Foxconn's profit margins. Foxconn is an expense to Apple. It squeezes Apple's margins.

Secondly, have you heard of any business saying, "You know what, we're making too much money so we're going to cut our prices and pass on some savings to our consumers."
 
Does this mean they are laid off or just summarily executed since they are not productive toward the proletariat like most Democrats want?
 
All joints on robots are sealed with pre-lubricated bearings. They are VERY reliable when used within there limits. If you seen the link I posted earlier, Fanuc has a factory that makes robots...using there own robots. This factory runs unattended for 30 days at a time.

And tell me what a robot can not do? Processors are expected to exceed brain power in 2030 and Honda already has Asimo. What do you think will come with the more advanced processors? You clearly know nothing of the manufacturing field.

I work in welding and fabrication, believe me there is plenty a robot cannot do that a human can, such as figure out a problem when something goes wrong.
 
I work in welding and fabrication, believe me there is plenty a robot cannot do that a human can, such as figure out a problem when something goes wrong.

I also work in a VERY high tolerance engineering company, so like you I'm aware of the real world when it comes to physical objects.
Robots, well, I'd not really call them that, are great when it comes to putting items fed to them in a cartridge or a strip of components and inserting things into pre make locations, or picking things up from one tray and putting them onto bits from another tray.
The problem is, unlike humans, it all has to be set up perfectly for them to perform a dumb task as they are totally dumb machines.
Some people seem to think we are living in Star Trek land where we can build "Data" who things and acts better than a human being.

If you want something the repeat the same operation millions of times, from perfectly pre arranged items, then sure, pick a machine to do it. But if there is any decision making or judgement to be used, it's going to be well into the future to find anything better than a human.

Remember when a cheap human breaks down or stops, you just get another one to replace them. You don't have to call in the service engineer.
 
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